Folks:
First, I'm not sure where to post these questions -- if there is a better forum than Solid State, please let me know and I'll post this inquiry there.
Here's the thing: there are a lot of products that provide power filtering or power regeneration, all with the intention of cleaning up the incoming AC. The presumption is that cleaner incoming AC is easier on the power supply and makes for better sound. PS Audio, Richard Gray, Monster, Panamax and a wide array of other companies market filtering and/or regeneration devices. Jon Risch has some DIY designs on his website, which DIYCable sells in packaged form.
My questions: is there a robust design especially suitable for a novice DIYer? I have both tube and a solid state stereos; are the Risch designs (or something else that you can recommend) more suitable for one over the other? What should I be looking for in a power filter / regeneration device? And how will I get the biggest bang for my money? I'm not in a position to build lots of different designs for comparison purposes, so I'd like to find something doable and cost effective.
Your thoughts?
Regards,
Scott
First, I'm not sure where to post these questions -- if there is a better forum than Solid State, please let me know and I'll post this inquiry there.
Here's the thing: there are a lot of products that provide power filtering or power regeneration, all with the intention of cleaning up the incoming AC. The presumption is that cleaner incoming AC is easier on the power supply and makes for better sound. PS Audio, Richard Gray, Monster, Panamax and a wide array of other companies market filtering and/or regeneration devices. Jon Risch has some DIY designs on his website, which DIYCable sells in packaged form.
My questions: is there a robust design especially suitable for a novice DIYer? I have both tube and a solid state stereos; are the Risch designs (or something else that you can recommend) more suitable for one over the other? What should I be looking for in a power filter / regeneration device? And how will I get the biggest bang for my money? I'm not in a position to build lots of different designs for comparison purposes, so I'd like to find something doable and cost effective.
Your thoughts?
Regards,
Scott
Hi Scott,
I moved your thread to power supply design.
I do not like anything between an amp and the power supply. This would add resistance in series, not good.
If your amplifier power supply is not well designed, buy a different amplifier.
-Chris
I moved your thread to power supply design.
I do not like anything between an amp and the power supply. This would add resistance in series, not good.
If your amplifier power supply is not well designed, buy a different amplifier.
-Chris
anatech said:
Chris-
I completely agree with you "IN" the amplifier but what about the "system" as a whole?
I have had the Triplite LCR2400 voltage REGULATION device and it made a HUGE difference.
Any video store can show you the difference the filters / regenerators make on TV pictures so why would it not also make a difference on audio products?
As I first said I agree that a propery designed amp (or any device) should manage bad power well, but there are some good ways to clean it before it hits the product.
Scott-
Actually there was a post or two on a DIY pwr filter. It was very well designed and I am planning on building it (after I move to my new home).
anatech:
Actually, I was thinking of a power filter before each component, such as a device that the amp, preamp and sources would plug into. That device would then be plugged into the wall outlet and would filter or clean up the incoming AC before it got to any of the components.
If you have any thoughts about such a device, please let me know.
Regards,
Scott
Actually, I was thinking of a power filter before each component, such as a device that the amp, preamp and sources would plug into. That device would then be plugged into the wall outlet and would filter or clean up the incoming AC before it got to any of the components.
If you have any thoughts about such a device, please let me know.
Regards,
Scott
Hi Scott,
Anything between the source of electricty and an amplifier is to be avoided. Nothing will have as low an impedance as the utility hookup to your home. Even better, run a direct line to any higher powered amp straight from the box. USE AN ELECTRICIAN FOR THIS JOB. Yeah, I was yelling.
Anyway, amplifiers draw current in peaks depending on the musical demand. Power conditioners can not do this as well as a good connection. Anything in between will reduce the amplifier's ability to draw current when it's needed. Something like a Carver takes this to an extreme. A true class "A" amplifier takes things to the other extreme.
Now, as far as your sources are concerned, I think a filter / lightning protection is a fabulous idea. I also strongly feel that devices like PS Audio conditioners have no place. They can do things like output different frequencies, and I really disagree with that. If you need something over a filter, your gear has a lousy power supply design.
-Chris <ducking for cover>
Of course I do! Anyone who knows me was waiting for this I guess. 😀
Anything between the source of electricty and an amplifier is to be avoided. Nothing will have as low an impedance as the utility hookup to your home. Even better, run a direct line to any higher powered amp straight from the box. USE AN ELECTRICIAN FOR THIS JOB. Yeah, I was yelling.
Anyway, amplifiers draw current in peaks depending on the musical demand. Power conditioners can not do this as well as a good connection. Anything in between will reduce the amplifier's ability to draw current when it's needed. Something like a Carver takes this to an extreme. A true class "A" amplifier takes things to the other extreme.
Now, as far as your sources are concerned, I think a filter / lightning protection is a fabulous idea. I also strongly feel that devices like PS Audio conditioners have no place. They can do things like output different frequencies, and I really disagree with that. If you need something over a filter, your gear has a lousy power supply design.
-Chris <ducking for cover>
anatech:
You needn't run for cover. In a former life (like, 25 years ago), I was a journeyman electrician. I can run wire. My main stereo has three 15 amp lines that run straight from the panel box to single hospital-grade duplex receptacles for the preamp, CD player, turntable and turntable airpump. The monoblock amps are on their own 20 amp lines.
The use of a power filter / conditioner may not make much sense for power amps, as you have suggested. I wonder whether it might make sense for the rest of that system, though. My second system runs off of two 20 amp lines; again, there may be some benefit to using some sort of conditioning device before the tube preamp, tube tuner and tube CD player in that system. Whether the tube amp (an AES AE-25 SuperAmp Signature) would sound better with cleaner AC is also something I'd like to test.
But I need to start somewhere. Any suggestions?
Regards,
Scott
You needn't run for cover. In a former life (like, 25 years ago), I was a journeyman electrician. I can run wire. My main stereo has three 15 amp lines that run straight from the panel box to single hospital-grade duplex receptacles for the preamp, CD player, turntable and turntable airpump. The monoblock amps are on their own 20 amp lines.
The use of a power filter / conditioner may not make much sense for power amps, as you have suggested. I wonder whether it might make sense for the rest of that system, though. My second system runs off of two 20 amp lines; again, there may be some benefit to using some sort of conditioning device before the tube preamp, tube tuner and tube CD player in that system. Whether the tube amp (an AES AE-25 SuperAmp Signature) would sound better with cleaner AC is also something I'd like to test.
But I need to start somewhere. Any suggestions?
Regards,
Scott
If its big enough (KVAs) a transformer + common mode choke (use a high current one, much higher than average draw due to peaks) and a couple tiny line grade caps can provide clean 120V balanced power without adding too much impedance. A MOV might be good too.
True linear regenerative power is wastefull and spendy. Its basically an amp spitting out a 60hz (or whatever) sine wave.
True linear regenerative power is wastefull and spendy. Its basically an amp spitting out a 60hz (or whatever) sine wave.
Hi Scott,
I do like line filtering devices for signal sources. As an electrician, you do know what nasties can ride in with the power. I believe a filter is the proper way to go for low power stuff. Look for high attenuation in the high frequency ranges. These normally contain an MOV at least.
I have seen some heavier duty filters in my travels. Real chokes and everything. Should have grabbed some.
Tweeker - Yes. But not for the power amps.
-Chris
I do like line filtering devices for signal sources. As an electrician, you do know what nasties can ride in with the power. I believe a filter is the proper way to go for low power stuff. Look for high attenuation in the high frequency ranges. These normally contain an MOV at least.
I have seen some heavier duty filters in my travels. Real chokes and everything. Should have grabbed some.
Tweeker - Yes. But not for the power amps.
-Chris
Google "corcom" & "line filter".
You can get good line filter for $20 with an IEC socket built in. These keep hash from getting in OR out. As far as the basic power quality is concerned, you gear should handle that.. if it doesn't, that's a different issue.
🙂
You can get good line filter for $20 with an IEC socket built in. These keep hash from getting in OR out. As far as the basic power quality is concerned, you gear should handle that.. if it doesn't, that's a different issue.
🙂
Hi poobah,
I'll consider that this comes from a guy who's job is to maintain power. As a result, your stuff can get whacked any time on the line.
I agree.
-Chris
I'll consider that this comes from a guy who's job is to maintain power. As a result, your stuff can get whacked any time on the line.
I agree.
-Chris
Hey dude,
RF is nasty... common mode chokes do a hidden beauty thing though. They are just a transformer laying on their side; they make sure that for every electron entering your amp, one leaves. All kinds of mysterious ground problems just get easier.
An EASY $20 to spend.
🙂
RF is nasty... common mode chokes do a hidden beauty thing though. They are just a transformer laying on their side; they make sure that for every electron entering your amp, one leaves. All kinds of mysterious ground problems just get easier.
An EASY $20 to spend.
🙂
My LCR2400 was a 20 amp device plugged into a 30 AMP twist lock recepticale. There was a 30 amp breaker with less than 20 feet of 10 ga. twisted copper wire. My line voltage was typically on the high side so the regulator mostly stepped down the voltage fron 122VAC to 115VAC.
I sold the LCR2400 and have regreted it since but will not replace it until I move into my next house.
The next house will have twisted wire throughout (instead of flat Romex).
Anyway back to the topic at hand, here is the filter thread I referred to earlier:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36444&highlight=
Took a while to find it in the search. I have it saved on my home PC but I am traveling right now.
I sold the LCR2400 and have regreted it since but will not replace it until I move into my next house.
The next house will have twisted wire throughout (instead of flat Romex).
Anyway back to the topic at hand, here is the filter thread I referred to earlier:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36444&highlight=
Took a while to find it in the search. I have it saved on my home PC but I am traveling right now.
Dirt cheap starting point for AC regeneration experiments??
http://www.thebuttkicker.com/buttkicker amplifier_home.html
http://www.thebuttkicker.com/buttkicker amplifier_home.html
KBK said:
Yeah, if you need only 63VAC RMS, and maybe worse THD, then usual wall outlet already provides. 🙂 Obviously, mostly important of regenerator specs is an output impedance, and if manufacturer does not specified it, surely, that promising THD <1% just a marketing BS. BTW, any LC line filters can gave more THD@real_load after vs before for the same reason.
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