pmc ib1 or make your own

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mclsound

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Joined 2007
#1
hi guys,my name is John and this is my first post,i use a Anthem AVM30,Raysonic cd128 and a Bryston 14bsst,i have a chance to purchase a pair of 6yr old ,black ash,PMC IB1 with about 250hrs on them for $4200can,.....i also was in touch with Chris at Solen and was priced a Scanspeak R2904/7000-09($423ea),ATC SM75-150S08($845ea) + a passive 2 way x-over all about $3000..... i have at my disposol 4-10"RCF750, a Ashly XR-2001 X-OVER ,a Ashly GQX-3102,and several other drivers.my questions are
1.do you buy the pmc?
2.can you use the Ashly in home audio?
3.$3000 for mids and tweeters(i understand they are the best but are they?).
4.can you use the 10's as midbass,with these drivers?
i appreciate any comments...i like spl once in a while,also i like the 30"cabnet(for now)
thanks John
 
#3
mclsound said:
a Scanspeak R2904/7000-09($423ea),ATC SM75-150S08($845ea) + a passive 2 way x-over all about $3000..... i have at my disposol 4-10"RCF750,
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Hi John. I'm John also.🙂

The SS tweeter is grossly overpriced IMO. The ATC mid is definitely not worth that much money.
Do you have any speaker building experience? Good drivers are wasted in poorly executed designs.
The 10" refered to, are they RCF? The L10/750YK?
 
#5
i have built all my own car audio cabinets.....then a 10,000 watt PA,8-18''jbl in12/ft3....4-15''rcf and4-2''jbl compression,i recently built a 24'X30' shed,and i am looking forward to building a high out put monitor for my home,i still have all my pa gear,yes they are rcf,not the new yk but the older 8ohm/300w....excellent mid bass,can u use pa in house,in a new charming cabinet,also have 4-jbl high frequency tweeters, i have lots of gear......i also have a chance to buy a pair of PMC IB1 for $4200,is that a good deal for this????look forward to all advise

thanks John
 
#6
mclsound said:
......i also have a chance to buy a pair of PMC IB1 for $4200,is that a good deal for this????
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I would always chose to build my own, rather than buy ready made.
What are the specs for the RCF? A true midbass really doesn't need a midrange driver (these are on the big side at 10").
 
#7
There are lots of guys here repurposing pro gear to home hifi -- often in the form of a big midbass, XOed over to a 500-1000 Hz horn (with optional supertweeter.

Because of the efficiency differences, active between midbass & horn is usually recommended. Also note that given the efficiencies, and how much less level these kinds of systems need in a domestic environment, they can be brutal at revealing the deficiencies of most big SS amps in the crossover region. This may be an opportunity to get a smaller Class A amp (tube or SS) for the high range (the Bryston makes a great sub amp, they are on the better end of big SS, but still may get revealed if used for midbass -- only one way to find out)

Here is a thread i have been following sporadically that seems to have turned into a discussion of these kinds of systems http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=107707&goto=newpost

dave
 
#9
my google turned up that these went for about 6k canadian new.4200.oo for them when their 6 years old sounds alittle much to me.plus only 250 hours in 6 years.who spends that knid of money on speakers to use them 42 hours a year.sounds alittle fishy to me.
but if its costing you 3k in drivers to build+plus time and money on cabinets,i would try to talk him down in price and save alot of work
 
#10
Re: Re: Re: pmc ib1 or make your own

pinkmouse said:



:bigeyes:

It's a good job you live over the pond, as you're cruisin' for a bruisin'! 😀
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Sorry Al. I'm not bashing ATC, that might be an amazing mid. But $840.00?? way too much.


chainenoble said:

but if its costing you 3k in drivers to build+plus time and money on cabinets,i would try to talk him down in price and save alot of work
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Save a lot of work...save a lot of work?? 🙁
This is DIY, my friend. We REVEL in the work!
🙂
 
#15
mclsound said:

is there not a cheaper mid ? help
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There are tons of cheaper mids. What is attracting you to the ATC? Just because it costs 10 times more than another driver doesn't mean it's 10 times better.
For that matter, there are cheaper tweeters and woofers.

The SS 9900 I've good reviews and bad (personally, I can't tell the difference between the revelator and the 9300 that I own)
The Volt I know nothing about, but I'm sure there is a similar 12" out there for half (or less) of the cost of that one.
 
#16
MJL21193 said:

The SS 9900 I've good reviews and bad (personally, I can't tell the difference between the revelator and the 9300 that I own)
The Volt I know nothing about, but I'm sure there is a similar 12" out there for half (or less) of the cost of that one.
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I have not used the 99 or the 93, but the 97 and 95. The 97 being identical to the 99 apart from the faceplate, and the 95 supposedly slightly better then the 93.

To my ears the 97 has an obvious edge over the 95, but at the same time, whilst coming off as contradictory, this 'edge' is subtle. Of all the reviewer subjectivisms, the main difference, to my ears at least, is the 97s ability to more finely resolve the attack and decay of a sounds envelope. Speed would be the word to use here I guess, not that the 95 didn't stop and start fast enough, more the detail around the stops and starts is lost in comparison to the 97. Maybe one could simply describe this as the 97 having slightly greater resolution in micro detail/dynamics :apathic:

Just offering a different perspective.

I am sure however, that whatever the perceived differences are, the quite real difference in price, probably isn't worth it.

What I can tell you however is this. Unless you have the ability to measure the drive units, in their final cabinets etc, prior to designing a crossover (yes I realise solen were going to perhaps assist with this, but nevertheless) you will most certainly NOT get anywhere near the full potential from the drive units you are considering.

Now with the price taken into context, its A LOT of money you are considering here and I would never recommend anyone spends anywhere near this raw amount on drivers, without a heap of prior experience, and the aforementioned ability to measure. Not that you wouldn't be able to get something sounding reasonable, far from it, it would most likely sound decent, but you'd be striking 0.1% odds of getting anything really great.

As diminishing returns strongly exist, you can probably spend $300-400 on raw drive units with a superbly implemented xover and come 80% of the way to something with $2000 worth of drive units and the same excellently implemented xover.

Although the loudspeakers are the weakest link in the audio chain, the drive units, inherently limited as they are, are not the main culprit. Although they DO represent some of the absolute limits, the largest factor imo at least, is the crossover joining the drive units together. Get this right with inexpensive, but well engineered and well performing drive units, and you'll get something sounding fantastic. Get this wrong with superb drive units and the result wont be anywhere near as pleasing, at least not in the long run.

This sounds perhaps a little dramatic, and maybe it is slightly exaggerated, but it still illustrates the point.

As mentioned earlier on, the price of the 2nd hand PMCs doesn't seem quite the massive bargain. I am sure that something else will pop up, that could be the next 'should I buy these' topic in 1 months time. If you wish to pursue building your own, then by all means go for it, but choose something a little less expensive, and preferably with a design by someone reputable to back it up with, in case your crossovers fail to meet expectations, would be a much better choice.

Something for example from.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm

He has a lot of excellent designs, starting from more reserved prices, up to loudspeakers using very expensive drive units.
 
#17
5th element said:

the largest factor imo at least, is the crossover joining the drive units together. Get this right with inexpensive, but well engineered and well performing drive units, and you'll get something sounding fantastic. Get this wrong with superb drive units and the result wont be anywhere near as pleasing, at least not in the long run.
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Amen to that, brother.
Crossovers kill me. :dead:

BTW, studying some of Solens crossovers, they go by publish FR and nominal impedance. Not my first pick.
 
#20
FIY
PMC IB1 have no ATC mid or ScanSpeak tweeter. It uses;
Vifa/Peerless Tweeter DX25TG (I think was 27TG before) and
Vifa Midrange D75MX

These drivers are ALOT cheaper than the ones you mentioned.

The bass driver I don't know about. Try the Tang-Band WT-1427B
 
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