I have a number of Martin Philishave cabinets which I intend using in our PA system to support our fireworks displays. We have an old long throw system enabling us to play music with our shows.
Some of the cabs have RCF LP12/24 drivers fitted, others have GUASS 2280s (which are totally wrong and have the phase bungs removed). I have tried to find out which drivers should be fitted and the general concesus is that they should be ATC PA75-314. Is the RCF driver as good as the ATC and is there any other driver with correct geometry that will work proper in these cabinets with the phase bungs fitted. On a slighly different note, if anyone has any experience using these cabinets I would be most grateful if you could give your honest opinion as to the performance of these cabinets compared to more modern designs.
many thanks,
Steve Hawkins
Some of the cabs have RCF LP12/24 drivers fitted, others have GUASS 2280s (which are totally wrong and have the phase bungs removed). I have tried to find out which drivers should be fitted and the general concesus is that they should be ATC PA75-314. Is the RCF driver as good as the ATC and is there any other driver with correct geometry that will work proper in these cabinets with the phase bungs fitted. On a slighly different note, if anyone has any experience using these cabinets I would be most grateful if you could give your honest opinion as to the performance of these cabinets compared to more modern designs.
many thanks,
Steve Hawkins
The Philishaves I used to have were loaded with the ATCs. Provided the cone geometry fits the plugs ok, I couldn't imagine the RCFs being any worse - RCF make a damn fine driver!
They are a VERY efficient box, probably more so than most boxes around now, but did suffer from a honk around 800Hz that needs to be pulled out (but then again, so do the W8 Martins, though not as severe). If yours are the MH212 (old model with 2x 12s), they did have some sort of phase interference, resulting in a slightly inconsistant sound as you walked across the front of them. I believe there were a few changes to the horn in the M600 model which did address this.
If you don't need extremely wide horizontal coverage, stack them on top of each other - they work very well this way, but not so well when side by side.
Cheers
Graeme
They are a VERY efficient box, probably more so than most boxes around now, but did suffer from a honk around 800Hz that needs to be pulled out (but then again, so do the W8 Martins, though not as severe). If yours are the MH212 (old model with 2x 12s), they did have some sort of phase interference, resulting in a slightly inconsistant sound as you walked across the front of them. I believe there were a few changes to the horn in the M600 model which did address this.
If you don't need extremely wide horizontal coverage, stack them on top of each other - they work very well this way, but not so well when side by side.
Cheers
Graeme
Hi,
That's very useful and many thanks. I believe that the cabinets are M600 units as they have a fibreglass horn and 'I think' the early MH212 had an aluminium horn. They do have two drivers fitted and as I said they are RCF L12/24 units, a few have RCF L12/544s but I can't seem to find out very much about these. I was intending on using them in a stack of three, with two EV940 2" horns and DH1A drivers on top. Because the output of the Philishaves is likely to be greater than the EV940s I was just going to run the Philishaves less hard. At 6.5KHz I have some slot tweeters in an array. I have set the crossover frequencies for the Philishaves at 250Hz and 1600Hz. Below the Philishaves I have 4 old JBL4560s with PD154s fitted, these rundown to 80Hz. Below this I have 6 WSX bins running down to 30Hz. It's all a bit old and heavy but I was hoping that the Philishaves would work reasonably well.
Once gain many thanks or the guidance and I will try to remove the honk. Is this a characteristic peak in their output?
regards,
Steve
That's very useful and many thanks. I believe that the cabinets are M600 units as they have a fibreglass horn and 'I think' the early MH212 had an aluminium horn. They do have two drivers fitted and as I said they are RCF L12/24 units, a few have RCF L12/544s but I can't seem to find out very much about these. I was intending on using them in a stack of three, with two EV940 2" horns and DH1A drivers on top. Because the output of the Philishaves is likely to be greater than the EV940s I was just going to run the Philishaves less hard. At 6.5KHz I have some slot tweeters in an array. I have set the crossover frequencies for the Philishaves at 250Hz and 1600Hz. Below the Philishaves I have 4 old JBL4560s with PD154s fitted, these rundown to 80Hz. Below this I have 6 WSX bins running down to 30Hz. It's all a bit old and heavy but I was hoping that the Philishaves would work reasonably well.
Once gain many thanks or the guidance and I will try to remove the honk. Is this a characteristic peak in their output?
regards,
Steve
Steve,
Both cabinets used fibreglass flares - I am not aware that Martin used an aluminium flare in any of their mid horns. The Mh212 flare is moulded in 2 pieces, bolted together. The M600 used a one piece moulding.
The old specs on these boxes indicate a different driver and power capability between models - I would assume the ATC is for the MH212 and the RCFs were probably the standard driver in the M600 (more than likely a proprietary version to suit the plugs).
The honk seems to be typical of Martin boxes - just pull 800Hz out a bit on the graphic and they are fine. Your crossover points are around what they used to run on the old Martin rigs - old and large, but should sound pretty good.
Cheers
Graeme
Both cabinets used fibreglass flares - I am not aware that Martin used an aluminium flare in any of their mid horns. The Mh212 flare is moulded in 2 pieces, bolted together. The M600 used a one piece moulding.
The old specs on these boxes indicate a different driver and power capability between models - I would assume the ATC is for the MH212 and the RCFs were probably the standard driver in the M600 (more than likely a proprietary version to suit the plugs).
The honk seems to be typical of Martin boxes - just pull 800Hz out a bit on the graphic and they are fine. Your crossover points are around what they used to run on the old Martin rigs - old and large, but should sound pretty good.
Cheers
Graeme
Hi Graeme,
Thats great. Well my have a two part moulding so they must be the older MH212s fitted with RCF drivers. I have spoken with ATC today and they have said that the PA75-314 is a 150W RMS device with a programme rating of 300w per driver. This seems higher than the original handling of 150w RMS for the MH212? Anyway, they have assured me that two ATC PA75-314s running in these cabinets will run happly off a 600w RMS amplifier. They said that the power handling of all drivers is governed by the voice coil size and they consider a 3" voice coil suitable for 300w programme. I must admit I was quite happy to hear this as it means that I can expect a little over 130dB from a single cab. This is adequate for my applications.
I do appreciate your help and will contact you when I have compared the RCF loaded cabs with ATCs using a proper measuring system. I am fortunate to have access to some B&K measuring gear with a dynamic signal analyser (HP4562)
You're a star for helping.
many thanks.
Steve
Thats great. Well my have a two part moulding so they must be the older MH212s fitted with RCF drivers. I have spoken with ATC today and they have said that the PA75-314 is a 150W RMS device with a programme rating of 300w per driver. This seems higher than the original handling of 150w RMS for the MH212? Anyway, they have assured me that two ATC PA75-314s running in these cabinets will run happly off a 600w RMS amplifier. They said that the power handling of all drivers is governed by the voice coil size and they consider a 3" voice coil suitable for 300w programme. I must admit I was quite happy to hear this as it means that I can expect a little over 130dB from a single cab. This is adequate for my applications.
I do appreciate your help and will contact you when I have compared the RCF loaded cabs with ATCs using a proper measuring system. I am fortunate to have access to some B&K measuring gear with a dynamic signal analyser (HP4562)
You're a star for helping.
many thanks.
Steve
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