Hi To All,
I'm looking ahead to my next speaker building project and trying to decide on a solid mid woofer or mid range in the 6.5" class. It will be used in a 3 way design and housed in a separate 12 liter sealed chamber to cover the 300 hz to 2 k frequency. The Peerless NE180W seems like a well made driver that is not priced to steep @ around $80.00. Zaph tested it years ago and it appeared to measure rather well with a good distortion plot. Is there other drivers in this class/ price point that I should consider? My primary pursuits are: transparency and detail in a driver that would work extremely well in a hi-fi 3way. My choice of music is classic rock, blues, and jazz. Hopefully, this is enough information to get the ball rolling.🙂
Best Regards,
Rich
I'm looking ahead to my next speaker building project and trying to decide on a solid mid woofer or mid range in the 6.5" class. It will be used in a 3 way design and housed in a separate 12 liter sealed chamber to cover the 300 hz to 2 k frequency. The Peerless NE180W seems like a well made driver that is not priced to steep @ around $80.00. Zaph tested it years ago and it appeared to measure rather well with a good distortion plot. Is there other drivers in this class/ price point that I should consider? My primary pursuits are: transparency and detail in a driver that would work extremely well in a hi-fi 3way. My choice of music is classic rock, blues, and jazz. Hopefully, this is enough information to get the ball rolling.🙂
Best Regards,
Rich
For $90 or less, I think "better" would be up to subjective preference. I'd strongly consider the Scan 15M/4624G00 for its exceptionally good cone and suspension. VC Mag tested it and the Klippel analysis showed that it remains linear well beyond the calculated Xmax. The NE may have lower HD (although the arbitrary scaling used by VC makes comparison extremely difficult) but the Scan has much lower moving mass (16 g vs 6 g), insignificant cone breakup (simpler implementation), and is just better-optimized for that 300-2000 Hz range. As a midwoofer in a 2-way, the NE180 would be very difficult to beat at its the current price.
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Thanks scudinc,
I will certainly give strong consideration to your suggestion. Among the 101 ideas floating around my head; the thought has occurred to me to use the Scanspeak 18W/8434G mid woofers that I already own. They may not be overly bassy but they do have a very pleasing mid range presentation. Both look like they have the same cone which I agree is excellent. The SS 18W/8434 models well in a closed box with a Qtc= .712. I will model the SS 15M/ 4624 and see what it looks like.
Best,
Rich
I will certainly give strong consideration to your suggestion. Among the 101 ideas floating around my head; the thought has occurred to me to use the Scanspeak 18W/8434G mid woofers that I already own. They may not be overly bassy but they do have a very pleasing mid range presentation. Both look like they have the same cone which I agree is excellent. The SS 18W/8434 models well in a closed box with a Qtc= .712. I will model the SS 15M/ 4624 and see what it looks like.
Best,
Rich
For around the same price it is totally worth looking into the Faital line.
The ScanSpeak revelator 18W series are pretty awesome, and deliver a lot more bass than you think they will.
The ScanSpeak revelator 18W series are pretty awesome, and deliver a lot more bass than you think they will.
Thanks Erik,
I will take a look at the Faital line. They may have something in the 6.5" class that could work for mid range duty. Hopefully, they have one that is easy to route a perfect circle for recess mounting.😀 The Revelator series appear to be a great driver but also outside my budget.🙂 The model I have are from the cheaper Discovery line (different animal for sure).
Best,
Rich
I will take a look at the Faital line. They may have something in the 6.5" class that could work for mid range duty. Hopefully, they have one that is easy to route a perfect circle for recess mounting.😀 The Revelator series appear to be a great driver but also outside my budget.🙂 The model I have are from the cheaper Discovery line (different animal for sure).
Best,
Rich
I really like the sound of the Peerless line, but FaitalPRO drivers tend to have better power handling, more treble extension for the same price and they have lots of fans here.
Hi Erik,
I appreciate your thoughts on looking at Pro Audio drivers like Faital. I really am interested in achieving a final sensitivity around 91-92 db after bsc is factored in. So, the challenge as I see it finding drivers that not only have TS parameters that fit but also look attractive.🙂
Best,
Rich
I appreciate your thoughts on looking at Pro Audio drivers like Faital. I really am interested in achieving a final sensitivity around 91-92 db after bsc is factored in. So, the challenge as I see it finding drivers that not only have TS parameters that fit but also look attractive.🙂
Best,
Rich
I have tested and used the 4 Ohm version of the NE180. It's pretty good, though not the "best ever". If you can step up to $150 and under there are some nice products from SB Acoustics and newer Dayton Audio drivers that are better in terms of HD and IMD. Nothing beats the Peerless NE180 for my particular application, however, so I use it as the midrange in a multi-way system.
Its a ncie, well price midwoofer. I have only one issue with it - the tinsel leads are sewn into the spider, in the past such designs tended to brake the leads after some use.
Hi CharlieLaub,
Thanks for your reply. Could you take a moment and describe how you are using the Peerless NE180 driver for mid range duty in your multi way system. That was my thought for using that driver just for mid range duty in a classic 3way design with a 10" woofer below and a waveguide loaded tweeter above. But, I'm interested to hear how you implemented this driver.
Best,
Rich
Thanks for your reply. Could you take a moment and describe how you are using the Peerless NE180 driver for mid range duty in your multi way system. That was my thought for using that driver just for mid range duty in a classic 3way design with a 10" woofer below and a waveguide loaded tweeter above. But, I'm interested to hear how you implemented this driver.
Best,
Rich
Hi Mario,
I will keep that quality control issue in mind. I'm still undecided on either the Peerless NE180 or looking at Pro audio drivers as Erik recommended.
Best,
Rich
I will keep that quality control issue in mind. I'm still undecided on either the Peerless NE180 or looking at Pro audio drivers as Erik recommended.
Best,
Rich
PHL 6.5 inch mids.
I have used PHL drivers for years and love them.
They are Pro designs with high efficiency / high output & low distortion.
Check out the amazing power to weight ratio of the motor to cone ie
Bl of 10.3 : 12g Mms of cone & suspension. This results in a reference efficiency of 1.5%
file:///C:/Users/Derek/Downloads/PHLAudio_Datasheet_1426.pdf
Even more amazing (more $$!) is the neo magnet version.... file:///C:/Users/Derek/Downloads/PHLAudio_Datasheet_1752ndu.pdf
This has an incredible 1:1 ratio ie Bl of 12 :12g Mms Ref efficiency of 2.2%! This is over double the efficiency of typical Seas / Peerless / Scan Spk audiophile 6.5 inch drivers.
I run a pair of 1752,s 200Hz to 2.8Khz (Beyma TPL above & Precision Devices 15 inch 158,s below ) all separate sealed box with dsp active crossovers and Eq..... Magical mids and rest not to shabby!
I have used PHL drivers for years and love them.
They are Pro designs with high efficiency / high output & low distortion.
Check out the amazing power to weight ratio of the motor to cone ie
Bl of 10.3 : 12g Mms of cone & suspension. This results in a reference efficiency of 1.5%
file:///C:/Users/Derek/Downloads/PHLAudio_Datasheet_1426.pdf
Even more amazing (more $$!) is the neo magnet version.... file:///C:/Users/Derek/Downloads/PHLAudio_Datasheet_1752ndu.pdf
This has an incredible 1:1 ratio ie Bl of 12 :12g Mms Ref efficiency of 2.2%! This is over double the efficiency of typical Seas / Peerless / Scan Spk audiophile 6.5 inch drivers.
I run a pair of 1752,s 200Hz to 2.8Khz (Beyma TPL above & Precision Devices 15 inch 158,s below ) all separate sealed box with dsp active crossovers and Eq..... Magical mids and rest not to shabby!
I can't think of a pro audio woofer anywhere near $80 that competes with the Dayton PM180.
Unfortunately, all the PB links in this thread are broken.
But there's some commentary:
Unfortunately, all the PB links in this thread are broken.
But there's some commentary:
Jeff Bagby said:
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I bought and measured a pair of the PM180. It's definitely a very low distortion driver, but it has a big flaw - it has some serious response issues around 2kHz. There is a null around there, and another one higher in frequency. I'm traveling and don't have the data with me so I am working off my best recollection. The 2k null was pretty deep in my measurements, I think over 10dB. For a 6.5: ish driver you would cross over in this area to the tweeter, so this really impacts the usability. There are hints in the datasheet FR about these nulls, but the y-scale is too coarse to see them, and perhaps the resolution of the data too low. This tends to smooth out the response curves so that they look flatter than they are.
Below 1.5kHz the PM180 is really good. Just don't use it crossed over above 1kHz.
Thanks Guys,
I appreciate the suggestions that have been offered thus far. Those PHL drivers that Alex mentioned look very nice. I'm not sure about distribution in the U.S.
Best,
Rich
I appreciate the suggestions that have been offered thus far. Those PHL drivers that Alex mentioned look very nice. I'm not sure about distribution in the U.S.
Best,
Rich
From Zaph's data the NE180W looks like an excellent choice for a 2-way design. Clean midrange and lower treble. The only 6.5/7" drivers that come to mind as being better for a 2-way without subwoofer are the Scanspeak 18W/8531 and Usher 8945. Both of those are significantly more expensive and I'm not sure if you can get the 8945 anymore. There are some drivers in the $40-80 range that may edge out the NE180W in the bass (e.g. Dayton RS180) but can't compete in the upper mid / lower treble.
For a dedicated midrange (>100Hz only) the 18Sound 6ND430 looks superb.
For a dedicated midrange (>100Hz only) the 18Sound 6ND430 looks superb.
Lightening the cone comes at a cost - loss of damping of cone resonances/breakup and dramatically increasing the Fs giving non-existent bass. The later is certainly true for the 1752NdU as Fs=120Hz whereas SEAS/Peerless/SS/etc 6.5" typically have Fs=25-45Hz. I have no idea about the former because PHL don't even give a frequency response in their datasheet, but i'm not hopeful.
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Hi TMM,
Thanks for your reply. I will take a look at the driver you mentioned from 18Sound. What do you think of the idea of using the Peerless NE180W for a nice mid range in a 3 way system or a TM cabinet with an added subwoofer? I had some material left over from my last project and built two bookshelf size cabinets with a net volume of 12 liters. These cabinets could be housed inside of a larger box and serve as a TM chamber in say a classic 3way or placed on stands and used for HT use with a subwoofer.
Best Regards,
Rich
Thanks for your reply. I will take a look at the driver you mentioned from 18Sound. What do you think of the idea of using the Peerless NE180W for a nice mid range in a 3 way system or a TM cabinet with an added subwoofer? I had some material left over from my last project and built two bookshelf size cabinets with a net volume of 12 liters. These cabinets could be housed inside of a larger box and serve as a TM chamber in say a classic 3way or placed on stands and used for HT use with a subwoofer.
Best Regards,
Rich
I think there is a little confusion. I was recommending the brand FaitalPRO. Not necessarily professional drivers. 🙂
Best,
E
Best,
E
There's also the Satori line from SB to add to the improvement list from the NE180. That line actually has better HD than virtually anything else out there and the 6" version (probably 8 ohm) does quite impressive things in larger ported boxes.
Not what you're wanting mind you, as you're after something more sensitive to be used a midrange. As mentioned above, the 6ND430, in the 8 ohm version, would give you a 92dB midrange driver, with excellent overall performance.
Not what you're wanting mind you, as you're after something more sensitive to be used a midrange. As mentioned above, the 6ND430, in the 8 ohm version, would give you a 92dB midrange driver, with excellent overall performance.
The NE180 would be just at home in a 3-way system (or 2-way with sub).
If planning to use a sub for below 100Hz, the SB Acoustics SB17NRX35 is also excellent for the money.
I forgot about the Satori MW16P (pre-production "MW165DC" sample tested by zaph) - harmonic distortion is lower than anything else discussed here. It does have a cone resonance around 1.5kHz which causes a narrow dip in the response - not ideal for 2-way but perhaps an acceptable trade-off for almost non existent HD. The NE180 and SB17 also have some mild frequency response issues around there which need attention when using them in a 2-way.
If planning to use a sub for below 100Hz, the SB Acoustics SB17NRX35 is also excellent for the money.
I forgot about the Satori MW16P (pre-production "MW165DC" sample tested by zaph) - harmonic distortion is lower than anything else discussed here. It does have a cone resonance around 1.5kHz which causes a narrow dip in the response - not ideal for 2-way but perhaps an acceptable trade-off for almost non existent HD. The NE180 and SB17 also have some mild frequency response issues around there which need attention when using them in a 2-way.
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