Hey guys
I'm using a DEQX 2.6P to great effect in an active 3-way setup. I'd like to eventually upgrade it to the DEQX HDP-3, but would also like to investigate PC-based alternatives.
Does anyone have any good ideas on reasonably priced sound cards supporting six analog outputs (for my 2x 3-way speakers) and a mic input (for the measuring microphone). Software would need to be able to generate correction filters based on the measurements and user-specified crossover points and slopes (96db or better would be ideal). Also, the ability to use 24-bit / 192khz music files and process at least at this level would be good, too.
Is this possible with today's computer software / hardware options or should I just wait and upgrade to the HDP-3?
Thanks guys.
-Jim
I'm using a DEQX 2.6P to great effect in an active 3-way setup. I'd like to eventually upgrade it to the DEQX HDP-3, but would also like to investigate PC-based alternatives.
Does anyone have any good ideas on reasonably priced sound cards supporting six analog outputs (for my 2x 3-way speakers) and a mic input (for the measuring microphone). Software would need to be able to generate correction filters based on the measurements and user-specified crossover points and slopes (96db or better would be ideal). Also, the ability to use 24-bit / 192khz music files and process at least at this level would be good, too.
Is this possible with today's computer software / hardware options or should I just wait and upgrade to the HDP-3?
Thanks guys.
-Jim
Hi Jim,
There are a few programs, but the one that seems to be the most popular is the Thuneau Allocator. Transient Perfect loudspeaker DSP tools . Windows DSP speaker crossovers.
It will do most of what you ask, but only has slopes between 6db and 42db. It also has a phase arbitrator which claims transient perfect reproduction.
Some caveats. It is a vst plugin, so you need to use a player that supports that. I use cplay in the context of a cmp2 build, but Jriver supports vst and any pro audio program will support vst. There are work arounds using a program call Jack, but it is MUCH better to use a vst capable program. There is also a winamp plugin but that is limited to 24/48k IIRC.
The Allocator is also predicated on ASIO. So get a card that supports that. FWIW I use the Lynx 2b for its great sound and 6 channel balanced outs. I have heard of it being used with something like the M-audio revolution 7.1
It cost about $150.
There are a few programs, but the one that seems to be the most popular is the Thuneau Allocator. Transient Perfect loudspeaker DSP tools . Windows DSP speaker crossovers.
It will do most of what you ask, but only has slopes between 6db and 42db. It also has a phase arbitrator which claims transient perfect reproduction.
Some caveats. It is a vst plugin, so you need to use a player that supports that. I use cplay in the context of a cmp2 build, but Jriver supports vst and any pro audio program will support vst. There are work arounds using a program call Jack, but it is MUCH better to use a vst capable program. There is also a winamp plugin but that is limited to 24/48k IIRC.
The Allocator is also predicated on ASIO. So get a card that supports that. FWIW I use the Lynx 2b for its great sound and 6 channel balanced outs. I have heard of it being used with something like the M-audio revolution 7.1
It cost about $150.
ASUS Xonar D2/PM 7.1 Channel PCI Sound Card Retail at ZipZoomfly
top sound quality 8 channel out $154.99
Newegg.com - ASUS Xonar D1 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Interface Sound Card
almost as good $57.61 I have this because I could not afford the better one.
top sound quality 8 channel out $154.99
Newegg.com - ASUS Xonar D1 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Interface Sound Card
almost as good $57.61 I have this because I could not afford the better one.
Member
Joined 2009
i've been using the kx-project free drivers for the creative audigy2 sound cards.
the audigy 2 zs sound cards go for less than $50 on ebay.
they only do 16bit/48kHz but you can get up to 8 outputs, user customizable channel routing and dsp (filters, crossovers, time delay, sound enhancements..) + line in and mic in
the hardware sounds outdated compared to deqx but i never get to listen to music in 24bit so it works great for me.
the audigy 2 zs sound cards go for less than $50 on ebay.
they only do 16bit/48kHz but you can get up to 8 outputs, user customizable channel routing and dsp (filters, crossovers, time delay, sound enhancements..) + line in and mic in
the hardware sounds outdated compared to deqx but i never get to listen to music in 24bit so it works great for me.
What about analog input from a pre/pro?
Say we just want to send main channel pre/out signals to the PC that acts as an Active XO. We do not need any player then, right?
I guess Im trying to figure out if Thuneau's products can simple take an analog input signal and process it.
Like the OP I want a DEQX but until that time Im interested in seeing how good PCs are compared to my DCX setup. I will not be using any local PC programs for audio playback. Everything goes into my pre/pro (Onkyo 885) first then each channel is sent into a digital crossover device.
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Some interesting replies that are all over the map.
There is currently nothing that provides the integrated experience of the DEQX. If you are looking for steep slopes like 96db/oct, that means FIR filters. There aren't that many analysis/measurement packages that assist with creating FIR filters. I'm really only aware of 3
- Acourate
- AudioLens
- SoundEasy (kinda/sorta)
Acourate is a very powerful xover and room correction workbench environment, but all it does it create the filter - it doesn't solve the playback problem.
AudioLense is supposed to be much more user-friendly than Acourate but covers the same basic area. No idea how the ultimate quality compares, though.
SoundEasy is a loudspeaker design/measurement package, but has added the 'Ultimate Equalizer' which is an FIR filter engine to the mix. Nice since it's a full blown speaker design package, but this approach is cumbersome to use as a 'normal' player, though.
As far as output goes, opinions are all over the place. The 'Computer Audiophile' site seems to think that the Metric Halo (multi channel) and maybe the Weiss (?? not sure whether it's stereo or not) are the best options, but Metric Halo is Mac only. There are some solutions that are 'great for the money' like the Xonar, Emu and the Saffire units, but I'm not really sure they compete with the best standalone gear.
IMHO where the computer based xover systems excel is in providing a fairly cost-effective platform for those willing to put the effort in and make it something of an active pursuit. I'm not sure that even after a decade or so of things being out there that there is anything to compete with the 'finish' and automation of the DEQX.
I was really hoping that SoundEasy would head down the path of exporting the FIR filters for use in BruteFIR etc, but instead it sounds like they're thinking more along the lines of their own standalone player which likelywould have the same limitations as SE (i.e. PC only, no ASIO)). I guess you can capture the impulses via a digital-in/digital-out loop - maybe time to upgrade my copy to give it a try.
There is currently nothing that provides the integrated experience of the DEQX. If you are looking for steep slopes like 96db/oct, that means FIR filters. There aren't that many analysis/measurement packages that assist with creating FIR filters. I'm really only aware of 3
- Acourate
- AudioLens
- SoundEasy (kinda/sorta)
Acourate is a very powerful xover and room correction workbench environment, but all it does it create the filter - it doesn't solve the playback problem.
AudioLense is supposed to be much more user-friendly than Acourate but covers the same basic area. No idea how the ultimate quality compares, though.
SoundEasy is a loudspeaker design/measurement package, but has added the 'Ultimate Equalizer' which is an FIR filter engine to the mix. Nice since it's a full blown speaker design package, but this approach is cumbersome to use as a 'normal' player, though.
As far as output goes, opinions are all over the place. The 'Computer Audiophile' site seems to think that the Metric Halo (multi channel) and maybe the Weiss (?? not sure whether it's stereo or not) are the best options, but Metric Halo is Mac only. There are some solutions that are 'great for the money' like the Xonar, Emu and the Saffire units, but I'm not really sure they compete with the best standalone gear.
IMHO where the computer based xover systems excel is in providing a fairly cost-effective platform for those willing to put the effort in and make it something of an active pursuit. I'm not sure that even after a decade or so of things being out there that there is anything to compete with the 'finish' and automation of the DEQX.
I was really hoping that SoundEasy would head down the path of exporting the FIR filters for use in BruteFIR etc, but instead it sounds like they're thinking more along the lines of their own standalone player which likelywould have the same limitations as SE (i.e. PC only, no ASIO)). I guess you can capture the impulses via a digital-in/digital-out loop - maybe time to upgrade my copy to give it a try.
Sound quality Challenge
List all of the expensive sound solutions with 8 channel out and 2 channel in that can surpass an ASUS D2. 116 db S/N input and output loopback RMAA test; very low distortion.
Ted
List all of the expensive sound solutions with 8 channel out and 2 channel in that can surpass an ASUS D2. 116 db S/N input and output loopback RMAA test; very low distortion.
Ted
Guys, thank you very much for all of the info. Spent a bunch more time researching based on all of your help and links and I think I'm going to stick with my DEQX. It just seems to be the easiest / best solution out there right now. Maybe a few years down the road the computer-based programs will catch up.
Thanks again,
Jim
Thanks again,
Jim
Hi Jim,
glad to read your current conclusion🙂.
I started with Behringer DCX2496 (modded) and put an BruteFIR in front of that using Acourate filters - good, but some issues:
- Audiophile2496 isn't good enough (too much grain - jitter, I'ld guess)
This card wouldn't work for active cross over, anyway...
Doing BruteFIR configuration seems to be far from easy...
- Acourate lin phase filter do have a quite long delay
0.7 sec or so - too much when watching tv
min phase is feasible, though
While thinking about possible solutions I got aware of DEQX 2.6P. I got one upgraded with new stuff (except for PSU) - and I'm more than happy with it.
A friend just received an upgraded 2.6P and will compare it to the ordinary one he uses for quite a while. I'm more than curious to learn about the differences...
Why do you consider DEQX HDP-3?
tia
Ulli
glad to read your current conclusion🙂.
I started with Behringer DCX2496 (modded) and put an BruteFIR in front of that using Acourate filters - good, but some issues:
- Audiophile2496 isn't good enough (too much grain - jitter, I'ld guess)
This card wouldn't work for active cross over, anyway...
Doing BruteFIR configuration seems to be far from easy...
- Acourate lin phase filter do have a quite long delay
0.7 sec or so - too much when watching tv
min phase is feasible, though
While thinking about possible solutions I got aware of DEQX 2.6P. I got one upgraded with new stuff (except for PSU) - and I'm more than happy with it.
A friend just received an upgraded 2.6P and will compare it to the ordinary one he uses for quite a while. I'm more than curious to learn about the differences...
Why do you consider DEQX HDP-3?
tia
Ulli
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