Strongly considering building either the F4, F5, F6 or Aleph J. For those who've built at least 2 and have a basis of comparison, which did you like and why? I like a really smooth, tubey sound. Speakers are conventional easy to drive 2-way monitors, so no issues there with speaker matching
M2 rulez them all
Swiss Knife of all Papamps
(you know that I'm always leaning to highly subjective 🙂 )
Swiss Knife of all Papamps
(you know that I'm always leaning to highly subjective 🙂 )
Will the M2x kit or boards be available again? They're sold out in the shop. It was next on my list if I can't get the new vfet kit.
My first thought would be AlephJ and M2/M2x.
If you only need a few watts and have a suitable preamp I can also suggest
the MoFo, which is particular simple and fun to build.
If you only need a few watts and have a suitable preamp I can also suggest
the MoFo, which is particular simple and fun to build.
Can’t go wrong with any of those (unless you don’t have enough front end gain for F4). That said, I always come back to the Aleph J.
Have a listen to the latest 2 NP interviews, Nelson's thoughts may help you immensely in making up your mind.
Thanks Dan.
Didn't mean to go off topic here. I'm also deciding on my first Pass amp and from what I gather from all the descriptions, the M2 and Aleph J are the ones that are more on the tubey, non-analytical whatever you want to call it, side of the spectrum. F5, F7 being on the other end.
I'm sure somebody will slap me if I'm wrong
Didn't mean to go off topic here. I'm also deciding on my first Pass amp and from what I gather from all the descriptions, the M2 and Aleph J are the ones that are more on the tubey, non-analytical whatever you want to call it, side of the spectrum. F5, F7 being on the other end.
I'm sure somebody will slap me if I'm wrong
It seems to be a common question. Which is the best? Which should I try first?
I've built quite a few and have enjoyed them all. I don't think there is any correct answer besides, pick one, build it and enjoy!
Then build a different one!
Regards,
Dan 🙂
I've built all 4 and the M2. I keep going back to the Aleph J most often. The only one I don't listen to anymore is the F5. You can repurpose cases and power supplies if you want to try something different to your first choice.
Some ramblings and anecdotes. I've built all 4 plus a few FW clones and amps inspired by FW. None of them are going anywhere.
Food for thought - What music? What pre-amp? What sources? Why'd you narrow it to those 4? Do you have other amps and want the new one to sound similar or try something new?
AJ => Crowd favorite of the 4 in my system. IMO, most "tubey". Most forgiving of crappy recordings. Excels with exceptional recordings and sources. Easy balanced and/or SE inputs if that matters to you. It's a toe-tapping, grin-inducing piece of gear.
F6 => Phenomenal amp. Has some oomph if needed with lower impedance loads. No real downside. I'd have the F6 to party and the Aleph J for all-day listening at moderate volumes with my room/speakers (big/4ohm).
F4 => May be an excellent choice if you already have a tube pre and/or listen to a lot of vinyl. It sounds like what you feed it, for good or ill.
F5 => I can't get mine to sound "tubey" even tweaking P3. It does not sound like the AJ or F6 (to me). Exceptional with really well recorded music. May be the next most "transparent" when compared to the F4. I can't get it to make my toes tap as much with my old classic rock. I tried a tube pre with it, great combo.
If you're not set to your list:
M2 and variants have been mentioned (M2x). I'd put it high on the list. A lot of character from the choice of input stage with the M2x. Tweaker's paradise.
ZMs Babel J2. It gets the most listening of all my FW clones or similar amps. AJ with more AJ'ness and no downside I can find. Sounds the same at party volumes and quiet listening. I've never heard a J2 or J2 clone, so I can't use that as a point of comparison.
No matter what you pick, you'll love it.
PS - I listen to mostly studio-recorded classic rock from digital sources. If I predominately listened to classical and opera, or if I still listened to mostly vinyl, my choices may be a bit different.
Food for thought - What music? What pre-amp? What sources? Why'd you narrow it to those 4? Do you have other amps and want the new one to sound similar or try something new?
AJ => Crowd favorite of the 4 in my system. IMO, most "tubey". Most forgiving of crappy recordings. Excels with exceptional recordings and sources. Easy balanced and/or SE inputs if that matters to you. It's a toe-tapping, grin-inducing piece of gear.
F6 => Phenomenal amp. Has some oomph if needed with lower impedance loads. No real downside. I'd have the F6 to party and the Aleph J for all-day listening at moderate volumes with my room/speakers (big/4ohm).
F4 => May be an excellent choice if you already have a tube pre and/or listen to a lot of vinyl. It sounds like what you feed it, for good or ill.
F5 => I can't get mine to sound "tubey" even tweaking P3. It does not sound like the AJ or F6 (to me). Exceptional with really well recorded music. May be the next most "transparent" when compared to the F4. I can't get it to make my toes tap as much with my old classic rock. I tried a tube pre with it, great combo.
If you're not set to your list:
M2 and variants have been mentioned (M2x). I'd put it high on the list. A lot of character from the choice of input stage with the M2x. Tweaker's paradise.
ZMs Babel J2. It gets the most listening of all my FW clones or similar amps. AJ with more AJ'ness and no downside I can find. Sounds the same at party volumes and quiet listening. I've never heard a J2 or J2 clone, so I can't use that as a point of comparison.
No matter what you pick, you'll love it.
PS - I listen to mostly studio-recorded classic rock from digital sources. If I predominately listened to classical and opera, or if I still listened to mostly vinyl, my choices may be a bit different.
Thanks for your impressions.
I'm curious what devices are used in your Babel J2 (mosfet vs semisouth)?
I'm curious what devices are used in your Babel J2 (mosfet vs semisouth)?
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Hi Dennis - MOSFETs direct from ZM. I am still apprehensive re: choosing my own parts, and I don't have any SS.
I like the Babel J2 a lot. I tried it with SS, but I bet its equally good with the IRFP150s. In fact, I could never get my THD with Semisouth parts as low as ZM got with the mosfets.
Like kids... We love the process of making them, and people just love to show 'em off and talk about them. You can say bad things about your own, but never anyone else's. They're all unique. Want pics? Got 'em!
Like Bill Cosby said (before he was persona non grata): "I brought you into this world, and I can take you out. And it don't make no difference to me, I'll make another one look just like you."
BTW - I don't have kids. Dare ya to say anything nasty about any of my amps
Enjoy!
Like Bill Cosby said (before he was persona non grata): "I brought you into this world, and I can take you out. And it don't make no difference to me, I'll make another one look just like you."
BTW - I don't have kids. Dare ya to say anything nasty about any of my amps
Enjoy!
You already got a lot of good advice. It is really down to matching speakers with the amp and the choice of music material. Some have overly damped speakers, or speakers with an impedance challenge in low midbass or with a sloped down FR which needs a kick up high to bring out that sparkle; and they love F5. Others have speakers which are analytical themselves and cannot bear an F5 driving those.
I had aleph30 (not J): rich warm mids, sloppy bass and not much sparkle on the top; plus a lot of heat especially into lower impedances. I still have the fully assembled boards, thinking maybe I convert them some day to a miniA to try in an active system. The amp was not a good match for Elsinores which are already on the warm side and need a tight control of the bottom. So BA-3(b) kicked those top to bottom, but then I felt like going in and increasing R on the tweeter to bring it down a bit on some material.
F4 is an interesting choice since one can try different front ends.
M2 has received a lot of good rep as an allrounder (I did not make it yet).
To me the holy grail is going active and using different amps, like F5 on the bottom and something a bit more forgiving on top (like ACA, miniAleph, F3, VFET, M2, etc.) depending on how many ways and what power is needed (one can still have a 3-way passive on top and just bi-amp for the bottom). Once EQ makes it into the audio chain a lot (not all) can be tweaked.
I had aleph30 (not J): rich warm mids, sloppy bass and not much sparkle on the top; plus a lot of heat especially into lower impedances. I still have the fully assembled boards, thinking maybe I convert them some day to a miniA to try in an active system. The amp was not a good match for Elsinores which are already on the warm side and need a tight control of the bottom. So BA-3(b) kicked those top to bottom, but then I felt like going in and increasing R on the tweeter to bring it down a bit on some material.
F4 is an interesting choice since one can try different front ends.
M2 has received a lot of good rep as an allrounder (I did not make it yet).
To me the holy grail is going active and using different amps, like F5 on the bottom and something a bit more forgiving on top (like ACA, miniAleph, F3, VFET, M2, etc.) depending on how many ways and what power is needed (one can still have a 3-way passive on top and just bi-amp for the bottom). Once EQ makes it into the audio chain a lot (not all) can be tweaked.
Greg7 - looking at your original post I believe you will be incredibly happy with the Aleph J. It has a huge helping of “tube magic” with no slop, fantastic soul and great detail. It’s very pretty, gorgeous even. 🙂
