Folks,
I guess this thread may be more suitable on its own rather than in the useful tools and techniques.
I am asking for help from the forum to compile a table list for us DIY newbies in the interest of paint finishes.
Here are a list of keywords I encountered while researching the subject. And I always get confused and easily forget/mix up these words and usage.
Urethane
Turpentine
Varsol
Enamel
Mineral spirit
Varnish
Stain
Lacquer
Latex
For painting I think we need to know;
* oil based, water based, and what else?
* what cleaner, thinner to use
* what can mix with what or not to do?
* when to spray, use roller or brushing not recommended etc..
I think may be something like this to stick to the wall of my workshop will help ;
Paint______Oil/Water_____ Thinner to use____ Cleaner to use
Enamel______Oil__________ Urethane__________ Varsol
Regards,
Chris
I guess this thread may be more suitable on its own rather than in the useful tools and techniques.
I am asking for help from the forum to compile a table list for us DIY newbies in the interest of paint finishes.
Here are a list of keywords I encountered while researching the subject. And I always get confused and easily forget/mix up these words and usage.
Urethane
Turpentine
Varsol
Enamel
Mineral spirit
Varnish
Stain
Lacquer
Latex
For painting I think we need to know;
* oil based, water based, and what else?
* what cleaner, thinner to use
* what can mix with what or not to do?
* when to spray, use roller or brushing not recommended etc..
I think may be something like this to stick to the wall of my workshop will help ;
Paint______Oil/Water_____ Thinner to use____ Cleaner to use
Enamel______Oil__________ Urethane__________ Varsol
Regards,
Chris
Let's see, with the list you have, the table will end up being quite large. Its hard to answer the question as its so vague and vast. Not to mention you cover more than just paints.
As for techniques, that can be summed up pretty easily.... Spray when you want a nice glass smooth finish, or multiple thin coats, or generally when you can.
Brush when you can't afford the spray equipment.
Roll, I wouldn't. Rolling goes on a wall, not on my speakers.
This is the opinion of someone who spends time building furniture, and would build my speakers to either be or blend in with furniture. But then again, spending anything short of a week on the finish alone, in my opinion, not up to par.
P.S. - If you're going for a list like that, you forgot two of my favorite finishes: shellac, and tung oil!
As for techniques, that can be summed up pretty easily.... Spray when you want a nice glass smooth finish, or multiple thin coats, or generally when you can.
Brush when you can't afford the spray equipment.
Roll, I wouldn't. Rolling goes on a wall, not on my speakers.
This is the opinion of someone who spends time building furniture, and would build my speakers to either be or blend in with furniture. But then again, spending anything short of a week on the finish alone, in my opinion, not up to par.
P.S. - If you're going for a list like that, you forgot two of my favorite finishes: shellac, and tung oil!
finish suggestions?
speaking of finishes, does anyone have recommendations for finishing a cabinet made out of Birch plywood? I was told that Birch does not take stain very evenly. Originally I had planned on making it a cherry type finish with a high gloss polyurethane. I think I am back to ground zero now and would like some suggestions for a good finish. The cabinet is appox. 2.5 cu. ft. It's a downfiring dual 10" subwoofer made to be a coffee table. Thanks for your help.
speaking of finishes, does anyone have recommendations for finishing a cabinet made out of Birch plywood? I was told that Birch does not take stain very evenly. Originally I had planned on making it a cherry type finish with a high gloss polyurethane. I think I am back to ground zero now and would like some suggestions for a good finish. The cabinet is appox. 2.5 cu. ft. It's a downfiring dual 10" subwoofer made to be a coffee table. Thanks for your help.
Thanks Schaef,
I really just want a generalized list, the reason is that I am trying to experiment with making a piano black finish. I bought a can of grey primer, a can of gloss black paint, a can of clear gloss paint. When I open the grey primer, it seem too thick, so I was thinking I need to thin it a bit for easier to paint and better finish. But I did not know what can be used as thinner, I tempted to use water but common sense tell me water does not make sense in this case. So what I can use or best use as thinner for paint. The can of paint does not state whether it is water based or oil based paint.
My experiment is just a piece of MDF board 2 by 2 feet piece.
My goal is to have 2 layer of grey primer, 4 layers of black, and 4 layers of clear. Using 600 sand paper to sand each layer before apply next.
So is Urethanes, Varso and Turpentine can be used as one group of thinners, interchangeable?
Mineral spirit use as a thinner for Varnish?
This is the kind of question I want the chart to help remind myself when I am doing projects.
Chris
I really just want a generalized list, the reason is that I am trying to experiment with making a piano black finish. I bought a can of grey primer, a can of gloss black paint, a can of clear gloss paint. When I open the grey primer, it seem too thick, so I was thinking I need to thin it a bit for easier to paint and better finish. But I did not know what can be used as thinner, I tempted to use water but common sense tell me water does not make sense in this case. So what I can use or best use as thinner for paint. The can of paint does not state whether it is water based or oil based paint.
My experiment is just a piece of MDF board 2 by 2 feet piece.
My goal is to have 2 layer of grey primer, 4 layers of black, and 4 layers of clear. Using 600 sand paper to sand each layer before apply next.
So is Urethanes, Varso and Turpentine can be used as one group of thinners, interchangeable?
Mineral spirit use as a thinner for Varnish?
This is the kind of question I want the chart to help remind myself when I am doing projects.
Chris
All those questions are good ones, and although I usually get good results, I'm far from an expert. I have a book that I am quite sure will answer all those questions. It is perhaps the best "how-to" book I have ever seen. Bob Flexner "Understanding Wood Finishing, How to select and apply the right finish" Rodale Press $14.95 "price higher in Canada"
Maybe later I'll try to help more directly. Right now I should be raking my leaves before it rains.
Maybe later I'll try to help more directly. Right now I should be raking my leaves before it rains.
No expert on paint, but
The only way I know to get a really good high gloss finish is with multiple coats of Laquer-
On a car, if you wet sand the coats and keep putting on layers you wind up with a very deep rich high gloss -
you can probably make some version of that work.
Ken
The only way I know to get a really good high gloss finish is with multiple coats of Laquer-
On a car, if you wet sand the coats and keep putting on layers you wind up with a very deep rich high gloss -
you can probably make some version of that work.
Ken
Ok this might not be too applicable to finishing off wood but it might be of some use to someone. The finish this guy gets on his pc is quite good. Mine turned out ok too after following his instructions.
http://www.pc-workshop.net/articles/paint101/paint101-1.shtml
Kram🙂
http://www.pc-workshop.net/articles/paint101/paint101-1.shtml
Kram🙂
Schaef said:
Roller works very nicely if you have a roller with short hair (lacquer roller). The surface gets very smooth! Try it!
Piano Lacquer Finish
I use that type of finish on the oak bases I build for my tube amps and have experimented a lot with primers and paints for that one.
1) Forget the grey primer. Every time I attempted to use it I wound up taking it back off.
2) Lacquer is the finish of choice. It dries quick and hard and can be sanded and reapplied quicker than oil or enamel. Ace Hardware has their own brand that has the perfect viscosity for what you want to do. You can buy different brands to find one that is thin enough.
3) Use multiple coats of a sandable sealer first. This seals and fills the grains in the wood and cuts down the number of times you will have to coat and sand with the black.
4) Sand smooth between every coat of black. It will take a while but you will see it start to come together. I usually start out with 320 grit and go to 400 and finally to 600. You will see all the grains and tiny scratches start to fade and the surface will get really glass like. Be very careful with moving them at this point because any chip or ding and back to the start you go.
5) Time is the key here as someone said previously. This is not going to happen in a day. I usually spend a week finishing a small oak base and have zillions of coats applied. It is either perfect or not, yes or no, there is no in between.
6) Always use a test scrap of wood to see how any fillers or primers or sealers will react to the finish paint. Some don,t play well with others and you don,t want this to happen on the cabinets you worked so hard on.
Good luck and have fun
🙂
I use that type of finish on the oak bases I build for my tube amps and have experimented a lot with primers and paints for that one.
1) Forget the grey primer. Every time I attempted to use it I wound up taking it back off.
2) Lacquer is the finish of choice. It dries quick and hard and can be sanded and reapplied quicker than oil or enamel. Ace Hardware has their own brand that has the perfect viscosity for what you want to do. You can buy different brands to find one that is thin enough.
3) Use multiple coats of a sandable sealer first. This seals and fills the grains in the wood and cuts down the number of times you will have to coat and sand with the black.
4) Sand smooth between every coat of black. It will take a while but you will see it start to come together. I usually start out with 320 grit and go to 400 and finally to 600. You will see all the grains and tiny scratches start to fade and the surface will get really glass like. Be very careful with moving them at this point because any chip or ding and back to the start you go.
5) Time is the key here as someone said previously. This is not going to happen in a day. I usually spend a week finishing a small oak base and have zillions of coats applied. It is either perfect or not, yes or no, there is no in between.
6) Always use a test scrap of wood to see how any fillers or primers or sealers will react to the finish paint. Some don,t play well with others and you don,t want this to happen on the cabinets you worked so hard on.
Good luck and have fun
🙂
Chris, if you were simply wondering what to thin the primer with, I'd have two suggestions. First, you could ask the people at the place where you bought the primer, they should at least have a clue or something. Second, call the people who made the paint, they should be able to tell you in an instant what you want to know. (After all, they made the stuff!)
As to the Bob Flexner book, I think I have that one, and it should be good, another author to look for would be Jeff Jewitt, he's considered one of the best, and if you go to his home page, I hear he'll answer questions about finish as well! (http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/ )
Finally, Austin...
I've heard the same things about Birch plywood, I'm not sure because I like lighter woods and tend to oil the wood rather than stain. I can offer a couple of suggestions though. First, you can look for a wood conditioner to apply to the surface first, this'll partially seal the wood allowing an even stain. Second, you can use a gel stain instead of the standard can stuff. This comes in a powder or gel form and is mixed with either alcohol or water depending upon the type. The gel stains are a little harder to find, but you shouldn't need a conditioner with them.
Hope this helps everyone out!
As to the Bob Flexner book, I think I have that one, and it should be good, another author to look for would be Jeff Jewitt, he's considered one of the best, and if you go to his home page, I hear he'll answer questions about finish as well! (http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/ )
Finally, Austin...
I've heard the same things about Birch plywood, I'm not sure because I like lighter woods and tend to oil the wood rather than stain. I can offer a couple of suggestions though. First, you can look for a wood conditioner to apply to the surface first, this'll partially seal the wood allowing an even stain. Second, you can use a gel stain instead of the standard can stuff. This comes in a powder or gel form and is mixed with either alcohol or water depending upon the type. The gel stains are a little harder to find, but you shouldn't need a conditioner with them.
Hope this helps everyone out!
I have armed myself with Urethane, Turpentine, Varsol, Enamel, Actone, sand paper etc, made myself a small sanding block with all edges rounded, applied three layers of thin primer using a foam brush so far. Don't really like the result yet, some streaks appeared even though sanding in between layers. Only using 600 grit sand paper for now, will use finer once as it gets closer to the final layers.
Black paint next tonight, but I'll try using a small foam roller to experiment. I think roller gets a better even coverage than brushing. Given that has to be sanded anyway.
Actually I do have a electric powered spray gun (Wagner I think)from 18 months ago that I bought for painting the deck chairs with white oil primer and german solder gery. The spray gun is boxed up in the basement somewhere after used it only once. Didn't not really like it. Very hard to control, it spat occasionally and if I was not careful and tilt the gun too much it splatter lumps of paint if it sucks up air. Hard to spray on horizonal planes have to keep it upright all the time. Too powerful, maybe airbrush is better for the detailing kind of jobs. I heard it takes a while to master the use of airbrush, and it is also a rather expensive set up, air compressor and the likes.
Black paint next tonight, but I'll try using a small foam roller to experiment. I think roller gets a better even coverage than brushing. Given that has to be sanded anyway.
Actually I do have a electric powered spray gun (Wagner I think)from 18 months ago that I bought for painting the deck chairs with white oil primer and german solder gery. The spray gun is boxed up in the basement somewhere after used it only once. Didn't not really like it. Very hard to control, it spat occasionally and if I was not careful and tilt the gun too much it splatter lumps of paint if it sucks up air. Hard to spray on horizonal planes have to keep it upright all the time. Too powerful, maybe airbrush is better for the detailing kind of jobs. I heard it takes a while to master the use of airbrush, and it is also a rather expensive set up, air compressor and the likes.
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