Observations
MDF vs Plywood for OPEN Baffle
greetings and hi.
two units of 100 hr burned in
fostex fe 103e units were used?c.
one in plywood OB and one for mdf OB...
mono test.. first.
again, transistor, T amp, many tube amps were
used.
3 different types of rooms were used..
one with much wood type all over,
one with much concrete and stone type all over,
one with both concrete and wood floors and lots of carpet..
overall , the final result is
in the same general direction?c
MDF vs Plywood for Open baffle using such single
full range driver shows a big difference?cand that is?c.
well it comes down to WHY one wanted to see
open baffle , and a single driver full range in first place.
you get this 3 D type magic you see.
Especially if you stick to using good quality
n heavy weight PLYWOOD.
then, the sound from this 4 inch thingie comes at you from
ALL over the room ten feet in any direction.
VERY Enjoyable, you might go into many nites,
listening to all your collection all over again.
using mdf, that 3 D magical sound field just collapses ,
as if you are using a boxed speaker and duh?c
where did the open baffle go ? results in thine face.
overall sound reverb, or whatever one calls it
goes from 10 feet in any direction to few inches.
exactly the 4 inch of the driver.
you can now SEE where that sound comes from.
nothing new. no magic.
if you are not interested in 3 D magic , and are
just looking for DAMPING a squeaky driver,
then MDF is great . i will use it on our door soon.
mdf changes the overall sound effect of the
well known to be shrilly 103e, to much more
toned down ways. mdf can truly CONTROL
the shrew ! yes, but alongwith that shrilly part,
you lost some other stuff too?c
MICRO DETAILS are practically gone with mdf
open baffle and 103e combination.
you are truly back to simple box type spkr cab.
i f you want to go back to that kind of world,
yep?cthe mdf is just what is needed.
mdf Seems to give more body , bass, and
surrounds the anemic plywood daintiness with
something harder , more Solid. but
in doing so, by definition of this action,
Micro and Delicate info is all muffled up and gone too.
however.
since mdf can absorb and control certain things?c
one can USE this Experience to advantage !
mmm
it might be an idea to experiment some more, and
see How to COMBINE mdf and plywood?c
so that both can be balanced in a very
personal and custom way for YOUR Room ?
if something unique works, i will keep you all posted,
maybe with fotos next time.
well
these are our observations and opinions.
yours will vary , of course, and that?fs
the whole point of forums.
in the end, four units of 103e now exist.
2 in mdf, and 2 in plywood
for stereo testing now, at our place.
be good.
k
MDF vs Plywood for OPEN Baffle
greetings and hi.
two units of 100 hr burned in
fostex fe 103e units were used?c.
one in plywood OB and one for mdf OB...
mono test.. first.
again, transistor, T amp, many tube amps were
used.
3 different types of rooms were used..
one with much wood type all over,
one with much concrete and stone type all over,
one with both concrete and wood floors and lots of carpet..
overall , the final result is
in the same general direction?c
MDF vs Plywood for Open baffle using such single
full range driver shows a big difference?cand that is?c.
well it comes down to WHY one wanted to see
open baffle , and a single driver full range in first place.
you get this 3 D type magic you see.
Especially if you stick to using good quality
n heavy weight PLYWOOD.
then, the sound from this 4 inch thingie comes at you from
ALL over the room ten feet in any direction.
VERY Enjoyable, you might go into many nites,
listening to all your collection all over again.
using mdf, that 3 D magical sound field just collapses ,
as if you are using a boxed speaker and duh?c
where did the open baffle go ? results in thine face.
overall sound reverb, or whatever one calls it
goes from 10 feet in any direction to few inches.
exactly the 4 inch of the driver.
you can now SEE where that sound comes from.
nothing new. no magic.
if you are not interested in 3 D magic , and are
just looking for DAMPING a squeaky driver,
then MDF is great . i will use it on our door soon.
mdf changes the overall sound effect of the
well known to be shrilly 103e, to much more
toned down ways. mdf can truly CONTROL
the shrew ! yes, but alongwith that shrilly part,
you lost some other stuff too?c
MICRO DETAILS are practically gone with mdf
open baffle and 103e combination.
you are truly back to simple box type spkr cab.
i f you want to go back to that kind of world,
yep?cthe mdf is just what is needed.
mdf Seems to give more body , bass, and
surrounds the anemic plywood daintiness with
something harder , more Solid. but
in doing so, by definition of this action,
Micro and Delicate info is all muffled up and gone too.
however.
since mdf can absorb and control certain things?c
one can USE this Experience to advantage !
mmm
it might be an idea to experiment some more, and
see How to COMBINE mdf and plywood?c
so that both can be balanced in a very
personal and custom way for YOUR Room ?
if something unique works, i will keep you all posted,
maybe with fotos next time.
well
these are our observations and opinions.
yours will vary , of course, and that?fs
the whole point of forums.
in the end, four units of 103e now exist.
2 in mdf, and 2 in plywood
for stereo testing now, at our place.
be good.
k
I noticed the same thing but I used the Fostex FE126e.I used 3/4" Birch Ply that is two feet wide by 3 feet tall and the 3 - D magic is there in spades.Music sounds so spacious and huge with a wall to wall sound stage.So far I have tried the FE126e in sealed cab's,BR cab's and now OB and like the OB the best.Bass is not as deep as with the 12 liter BR cabinet but it's quality is better and even surprises me at times.Bass in OB seems deeper than bass in .38cu sealed.If I could build a horn I would but I cant so OB it is for now. BTW I don't feel the need for subs at all in my listenig space.
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baffle size n thickness
thanks for reading all this.
Baffle size is constant at 75 cm x 88 cm
plywood thickness is 1.5 cm or 15mm
spkr diameter hole is slightly off centered, and
not calculated... about 3-4 cm off than
where it would have been centered.
which
pls note...
thanks for reading all this.
Baffle size is constant at 75 cm x 88 cm
plywood thickness is 1.5 cm or 15mm
spkr diameter hole is slightly off centered, and
not calculated... about 3-4 cm off than
where it would have been centered.
which
pls note...
Cool..... your baffles are about the same size as mine.How do you connect your speaker cables to your speaker? I made little binding post block's and screwed them right under the driver.
[/IMG]
Hey elfie
Little trick for you Ernest- take a router (or a file) and bevel or roundover the back edge of the driver mounting hole. You can often double the 'free breathing' of the driver, which IME results in better dynamics and fewer response anomalies. It can be surprising to people how much the actual driver mounting and surface of the cabinet/baffle affect things- flush mounting vs. surface, beveling the back of the driver hole for breathing room, edge roundovers, etc.
Little trick for you Ernest- take a router (or a file) and bevel or roundover the back edge of the driver mounting hole. You can often double the 'free breathing' of the driver, which IME results in better dynamics and fewer response anomalies. It can be surprising to people how much the actual driver mounting and surface of the cabinet/baffle affect things- flush mounting vs. surface, beveling the back of the driver hole for breathing room, edge roundovers, etc.
Re: Hey elfie
Hey Badman so you hang out here too...cool.Thank's for the tip I will try it. Your Fostex speakers look awesome did you find a final resting place for the ribbons?
badman said:
Hey Badman so you hang out here too...cool.Thank's for the tip I will try it. Your Fostex speakers look awesome did you find a final resting place for the ribbons?
Yes, they're top mounted on the rethms. I'm very pleased with the results I'm getting from the big rig, so I'm working with the bedroom rig a bit. Currently testing new tweeters (which seem very good indeed, peerless 810921), and will be fiddling with integrating the bassbins (sealed HE 15"s)
I built a few OB mules earlier this year. I didn't do any a/b testing (too lazy), but I do remember feeling something was missing when I changed construction basis from laminated 10mm MDF - 50mm expanded polystyrene - 6mm hardboard to 18mm ply.
At the moment, I'm trying to reduce the size of the baffle to not much more than the drivers and somehow decouple the wings and am hoping that it doesn't really matter about the construction materials...
At the moment, I'm trying to reduce the size of the baffle to not much more than the drivers and somehow decouple the wings and am hoping that it doesn't really matter about the construction materials...
marec said:
You must plan on using some sort of subwoofers if you intent to shrink the baffle size down to the size of the driver.The baffle size is what creates bass...the bigger the baffle the more bass you get.I think it would be nice to try and decouple the wings ,but I think ply is the best sounding material.
Hi all, interesting reading.
It was years ago I read somewhere NOT to use ply for baffles, but particle board. WRONG. Large, well respected manufacturers recommend void free ply. They want you to get the best results from their products.
I had my 10" Wharfedales on OBs for a number of years. The baffle consisted of 500 x 400 mm of flooring grade fibro cement, with sides and top of 300 mm of 18mm particle board. This sat on top of the bass enclosure, crossing over at 500 Hz.
That fibro cement, (or AC sheeting) is a mongrell to work with, but well worth the effort.
I have just hit 2 simmilar sized sheets of MDF and standard plywood with a hammer. The MDF sounded dead, the plywood almost had a ringing sound to it. On first impressions you may think the MDF would be more suited as a baffle. The ply is stiffer, thats why it tends to resonate. And thus more suited to baffles.
My Wharfedales are currently on MDF, in corner enclosures. FR with a sub. They sound good, but are getting fibro - cement one day.
It was years ago I read somewhere NOT to use ply for baffles, but particle board. WRONG. Large, well respected manufacturers recommend void free ply. They want you to get the best results from their products.
I had my 10" Wharfedales on OBs for a number of years. The baffle consisted of 500 x 400 mm of flooring grade fibro cement, with sides and top of 300 mm of 18mm particle board. This sat on top of the bass enclosure, crossing over at 500 Hz.
That fibro cement, (or AC sheeting) is a mongrell to work with, but well worth the effort.
I have just hit 2 simmilar sized sheets of MDF and standard plywood with a hammer. The MDF sounded dead, the plywood almost had a ringing sound to it. On first impressions you may think the MDF would be more suited as a baffle. The ply is stiffer, thats why it tends to resonate. And thus more suited to baffles.
My Wharfedales are currently on MDF, in corner enclosures. FR with a sub. They sound good, but are getting fibro - cement one day.
The current incarnation is 10" wharfedale plus single 15" bass helper. I'm waiting delivery of a second pair of 15's before I start the microbaffle (about 48" x 18"). The baffle will still have extending wings to take it out to 48" x 48", but I'm going to apply some additional correction to try and get a useable result without them.
I also need to finish another pair of chipamps!
I also need to finish another pair of chipamps!
Depending on your setup and room a big baffle is not required for good bass.
I have an 8" fullrange and a 15" bass driver on a 20" wide baffle that goes down to 40hz in a larger room.
I plan on making the baffle narrower were the fullrange driver is to help the imaging, which is already quite good.
On another forum it was stated that for better sound the main driver(s) baffle width should be no more than 2.2 times the size of the driver.
From what I have gathered from several people using OBs this seems about right.
Lin
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what wood 4 OB
hi all
i was wondering if anyone tried solid wood baffles and compared them to the PLY ????
malcolm
hi all
i was wondering if anyone tried solid wood baffles and compared them to the PLY ????
malcolm
audiophile36 said:
You can't make them any wider - or you won't be able to get to the turntable!!
Everyone,
-Excuse me for being a little off topic-
Funny I should run into this thread....I have been thinking about open baffle designs and was wondering if there is a specific formula for driver placement or should it be more or less ear level from a sitting position? Also, what about the angle of the baffle?
I have looked at the JELabs open baffle design and it looks nice....but the recommended drivers (at least the ones he uses) are not really easy find and costly when they are available.
Am I complicating things by assuming that driver placement is by design?
I do have a few sets of various fostex drivers (including 126e's) and would love to build a set, but need a little more detail.
Thanks all,
Wayne
-Excuse me for being a little off topic-
Funny I should run into this thread....I have been thinking about open baffle designs and was wondering if there is a specific formula for driver placement or should it be more or less ear level from a sitting position? Also, what about the angle of the baffle?
I have looked at the JELabs open baffle design and it looks nice....but the recommended drivers (at least the ones he uses) are not really easy find and costly when they are available.
Am I complicating things by assuming that driver placement is by design?
I do have a few sets of various fostex drivers (including 126e's) and would love to build a set, but need a little more detail.
Thanks all,
Wayne
MJK has all the answers you need. For a few dollars you can model almost anything you can imagine. However there seems to be a tradition here of people doing the modelling for you if you supply the parameters. Scottmoose seems to lead this, but I guess anyone will help....
Rgds
Mark
Rgds
Mark
wboyd, The only rule with open baffles is the one relating to bass roll-off. The shortest distance from the driver to the edge of the baffle should be equal to, or greater than that desired freq. Moving away from centre broadens the region of dipole action. Choosing the driver is more critical.
Since your starting from scratch, think about one big baffle. Audiophile36's is approaching that, but the turntable is forming the centre. That must have a very well matched tone-arm / cartridge combo.
Speaker height is a subjective thing. I prefer a full range driver above eye height. Less stuff up there to bounce off.
Back to the big baffle. If its almost as wide as the room, suspended from the ceiling by chain, and angled down to point at the listening area, you have the largest size possible for that room. No bass feedback via the floor. And maximum bass extension.
And the good news is, you have a screen for the overhead projector. That's what you tell the good lady! Takes care of the wife factor.
Since your starting from scratch, think about one big baffle. Audiophile36's is approaching that, but the turntable is forming the centre. That must have a very well matched tone-arm / cartridge combo.
Speaker height is a subjective thing. I prefer a full range driver above eye height. Less stuff up there to bounce off.
Back to the big baffle. If its almost as wide as the room, suspended from the ceiling by chain, and angled down to point at the listening area, you have the largest size possible for that room. No bass feedback via the floor. And maximum bass extension.
And the good news is, you have a screen for the overhead projector. That's what you tell the good lady! Takes care of the wife factor.
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