Hello! This is my first speaker project. I'm building a BVR based on the Chili Chang. For the drivers I chose the Mark Audio Alpair 10 full range speakers. I've been studying and learning a lot during this whole process. I do have some questions.
1. I want to avoid having anything between my amp and driver (in way of crossovers, bsc, etc.) as I've heard anything in the signal path ultimately "colors" the sound in some way. Is this true and is it worthy of the extra effort to work harder on the design of the speaker than to simply tweek with the signal? which leads me to question #2.
2. I want to eliminate a baffle step compensation by putting an extension to effectively widen the width of the speaker in the area to the right and left of the driver. According to my calculations if I put about 30" extension out (on one side anyway) I could eliminate sound pressure loss down to 200 hz. Is my logic correct on this?
3. I'm about to order some speaker wire, and I see they sell internal wiring and regular speaker wire. What's the difference? My plan was to go straight from the driver..out the speaker..into the amp, without anything in the path. What would be the best wire for this situation? (its not far to my amp)
Thank you all in advance for your help. Really new here, but love what I see. Hope to have some pictures posted soon! Thanks,
Matt
1. I want to avoid having anything between my amp and driver (in way of crossovers, bsc, etc.) as I've heard anything in the signal path ultimately "colors" the sound in some way. Is this true and is it worthy of the extra effort to work harder on the design of the speaker than to simply tweek with the signal? which leads me to question #2.
2. I want to eliminate a baffle step compensation by putting an extension to effectively widen the width of the speaker in the area to the right and left of the driver. According to my calculations if I put about 30" extension out (on one side anyway) I could eliminate sound pressure loss down to 200 hz. Is my logic correct on this?
3. I'm about to order some speaker wire, and I see they sell internal wiring and regular speaker wire. What's the difference? My plan was to go straight from the driver..out the speaker..into the amp, without anything in the path. What would be the best wire for this situation? (its not far to my amp)
Thank you all in advance for your help. Really new here, but love what I see. Hope to have some pictures posted soon! Thanks,
Matt
Hi Matt, and welcome aboard. First thing's first. The chang family (and any enclosure) is not meant for use with 'just any' driver. It's specifically designed around a driver, in this case, FE167E.
You say "based around" but really, unless the enclosure is specifically designed for it, the alpair 10 won't give you its best.
1. It's a matter of debate. Full range drivers are often accompanied by a purist approach, with minimal manipulation outside of enclosure design. There's nothing inherently wrong with using a baffle step correction filter, however. Which is preferable.... matter of debate.
2. That's a big extension! But yes, your logic is correct, though your model is likely overzealous. 30" of extra baffle width is quite a lot. Worth experimenting, but I'd definitely take heroic efforts to make it stiff, nonresonant, and removable.
3. You can get bulk kimber 4TC which is quite good both as internal and external speaker wire. To my way of thinking, internal needs to be a little more attentive WRT to constraining the conductors and vibration control, but wire's voodoo with a lot of conflicting ideas.
You say "based around" but really, unless the enclosure is specifically designed for it, the alpair 10 won't give you its best.
1. It's a matter of debate. Full range drivers are often accompanied by a purist approach, with minimal manipulation outside of enclosure design. There's nothing inherently wrong with using a baffle step correction filter, however. Which is preferable.... matter of debate.
2. That's a big extension! But yes, your logic is correct, though your model is likely overzealous. 30" of extra baffle width is quite a lot. Worth experimenting, but I'd definitely take heroic efforts to make it stiff, nonresonant, and removable.
3. You can get bulk kimber 4TC which is quite good both as internal and external speaker wire. To my way of thinking, internal needs to be a little more attentive WRT to constraining the conductors and vibration control, but wire's voodoo with a lot of conflicting ideas.
You might talk to Planet 10 about all of these choices. Regardless of whether you choose the Alpair10 or the Fostex FE167E, they can take the driver to a level of performance well in excess of stock, for musical attributes. They will also be able to advise you on changes needed to bring the cabinet and Alair 10 into a correct relationship.
Bud
Bud
The BVR for the Alpair 10 is Jaguar... mail me if you want preliminary plans.
As to the extension, i'd add it only after the build and tune by playing (if it is needed at all). The Alpairs already have a bump built that tends to counter BS.
Speaker wire -- what kind of amp do you have? Amp, speaker, and speaker wire is a system.
And Bud is right. Alpair 10 can be improved -- at least to my ear (and at least a couple others -- our treated A10 got 1st play at this last WE's diyFEST) by quite a bit.
dave
As to the extension, i'd add it only after the build and tune by playing (if it is needed at all). The Alpairs already have a bump built that tends to counter BS.
Speaker wire -- what kind of amp do you have? Amp, speaker, and speaker wire is a system.
And Bud is right. Alpair 10 can be improved -- at least to my ear (and at least a couple others -- our treated A10 got 1st play at this last WE's diyFEST) by quite a bit.
dave
matt;
If it's not too late to ask (i.e. funds committed or material cut), have you actually had the opportunity to audition any of the Mark Audio or Fostex drivers in other systems?
My very first DIY speaker (9 yrs ago) was the result of several months of 'net research and planning, and was inspired by a very popular DIY design at the time, the Lynn Olson Ariel.
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/projects/chris/index.html
For a variety of reasons outlined in the above vanity page, my final build on this first project was not as elaborate as Lynn's design. More importantly, when I finally got an opportunity to hear a pair of Ariel's (among many others) at a DIY show several years later (VSAC 2001), I was somewhat underwhelmed. This show was also the opportunity to hear several single driver designs (mostly Fostex) and a variety of low powered (SET) tube amps.
Well, hello - meet my friend congnitive dissonance - how can devices with such poor performance on paper, and clearly audible deficencies when over driven, be so emotionally gripping when used within their limits?
back to topic
Not all "Full" (make that wide) range, single drivers/systems are created equal, or will deliver similar performance, even in well built and competently designed enclosures. Moreover, when approaching this smorgasboard for the first time, you won't necessarily know what you like best 'til after a taste test from all the offerings - so remember that any recommendations may need a dose of seasoning. Of course, the other side of that coin is that self appointed and well intentioned veteran gormands will be more than happy to comply with any request for assistance in menu selection. Accept their advice, but trust your own taste, and remember that your choices may change over time.
If it's not too late to ask (i.e. funds committed or material cut), have you actually had the opportunity to audition any of the Mark Audio or Fostex drivers in other systems?
My very first DIY speaker (9 yrs ago) was the result of several months of 'net research and planning, and was inspired by a very popular DIY design at the time, the Lynn Olson Ariel.
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/projects/chris/index.html
For a variety of reasons outlined in the above vanity page, my final build on this first project was not as elaborate as Lynn's design. More importantly, when I finally got an opportunity to hear a pair of Ariel's (among many others) at a DIY show several years later (VSAC 2001), I was somewhat underwhelmed. This show was also the opportunity to hear several single driver designs (mostly Fostex) and a variety of low powered (SET) tube amps.
Well, hello - meet my friend congnitive dissonance - how can devices with such poor performance on paper, and clearly audible deficencies when over driven, be so emotionally gripping when used within their limits?
back to topic
Not all "Full" (make that wide) range, single drivers/systems are created equal, or will deliver similar performance, even in well built and competently designed enclosures. Moreover, when approaching this smorgasboard for the first time, you won't necessarily know what you like best 'til after a taste test from all the offerings - so remember that any recommendations may need a dose of seasoning. Of course, the other side of that coin is that self appointed and well intentioned veteran gormands will be more than happy to comply with any request for assistance in menu selection. Accept their advice, but trust your own taste, and remember that your choices may change over time.
Thank you all for your responses! I'll forgo the suprabaffle idea, taking into account the built in bsc in the A10's frequency response, and see how that goes...(I can always experiment with adding it later). It would be great to hear some of these drivers and talk to other diy audio people, but I'm in the Midwest- Kansas City. Anybody know of a group close by?
Cheers,
Matt
Cheers,
Matt
my guess is that your best bet would be to look for a Bottlehead listening group nearby - low power SET and this class of loudspeaker tend to go hand in hand.
Zoom in the Frappr Map at
http://www.bottlehead.com/loosep/loosep.html
http://www.frappr.com/bottlehead
- Status
- Not open for further replies.