Hello DIYers
I just registered since I'm new to HiFi DIY (I´ve worked with large PA systems In clubs for several years, and built horn subs In the past).
I recently got into the idea of making a large 2-way for both HiFi and studio use, so I've built a 30L reflex box for a 8" woofer and large dome tweeter, for a 2000 hz crossover.
Today I ordered the parts, so I'm very excited to put it together to see how It sounds. They are as follows:
Dayton DS215-8 - 8" Mid/Woofer
Dayton Audio - DS215-8 8" Designer Series Woofer Speaker 8 Ohm
Monacor DT-300 - 1.2" Dome Tweeter
MONACOR: DT-300
Dayton XO2W-2K - 2000 Hz 2-Way Crossover
Dayton Audio - XO2W-2K 2-Way Crossover 2,000 Hz
They go into a 30L box with 2 ports of 5 cm circumference and 10 cm depth, i havent calculated the tuning, but I believe it to be around 40-50 Hz, correct me If I'm wrong.
I plan on driving the speakers with a Cambridge A500 amp:
Cambridge Audio A500 - Manual - Stereo Integrated Amplifier - HiFi Engine
My questions to you guys is: Will this work well? Do I need to dampen the tweeter due to It's higher sensitivity? What Is your overall opinion on this setup for a beginner audiophile just getting into DIY speakerbuilding?
All feedback Is greatly appreciated!
Thank you very much, I look forward to learn all that I can from the masters of this forum 🙂
I just registered since I'm new to HiFi DIY (I´ve worked with large PA systems In clubs for several years, and built horn subs In the past).
I recently got into the idea of making a large 2-way for both HiFi and studio use, so I've built a 30L reflex box for a 8" woofer and large dome tweeter, for a 2000 hz crossover.
Today I ordered the parts, so I'm very excited to put it together to see how It sounds. They are as follows:
Dayton DS215-8 - 8" Mid/Woofer
Dayton Audio - DS215-8 8" Designer Series Woofer Speaker 8 Ohm
Monacor DT-300 - 1.2" Dome Tweeter
MONACOR: DT-300
Dayton XO2W-2K - 2000 Hz 2-Way Crossover
Dayton Audio - XO2W-2K 2-Way Crossover 2,000 Hz
They go into a 30L box with 2 ports of 5 cm circumference and 10 cm depth, i havent calculated the tuning, but I believe it to be around 40-50 Hz, correct me If I'm wrong.
I plan on driving the speakers with a Cambridge A500 amp:
Cambridge Audio A500 - Manual - Stereo Integrated Amplifier - HiFi Engine
My questions to you guys is: Will this work well? Do I need to dampen the tweeter due to It's higher sensitivity? What Is your overall opinion on this setup for a beginner audiophile just getting into DIY speakerbuilding?
All feedback Is greatly appreciated!
Thank you very much, I look forward to learn all that I can from the masters of this forum 🙂
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To answer your questions...
- I'm not sure it'll work well. 8" 2-way designs are difficult and ask a lot of the drivers at play. In your case, the 8" cone is getting peaky (and that's on a smoothed graph) just above 2kHz, so I'd be concerned that your crossover won't attenuate that enough. You'll also be running the tweeter right at the edge of its capabilities.
That's all apart from the off-axis response - 8" cones have fairly narrow directivity above 1kHz-ish, and then when the tweeter comes in it'll have really wide dispersion again. So, listening off-axis will have a dip in the midrange if your on-axis response is flat.
Similar to a 15"/1" PA speaker. Even if it's okay straight in front (rarely the case), take a few steps to the side and the midrange disappears.
- You'll almost certainly need to attenuate the tweeter, and maybe implement a baffle-step filter. You'll note from your PA experience that speakers put up on stands tend to have less bass than the same placed on the floor - same sort of deal.
- You can use WinISD Pro or Hornresp to calculate your cabinets. WinISD Pro is easier for beginners, but Hornresp allows you to simulate all sorts of interesting cabinets. Don't just guess a bass reflex box.
- Off-the-shelf crossovers will usually work in the sense that they'll prevent bass getting to the tweeter and treble getting to the woofer. It's almost certain that they won't align a given set of drivers properly, though. If you want to buy an off-the-shelf crossover, only buy the crossover intended for your exact drivers.
Overall, I'd say it's going to be a fairly difficult first project. If I was going to try to make the best of it, I'd grab a measurement mic (even a Behringer ECM8000 isn't bad if you're aligning a crossover at 2kHz) and a USB audio interface (Behringer's UMC202HD is pretty good), do some measurements with REW (free), simulate the crossover in XSim (free again) and build something specific for those particular drivers. I'd probably aim for a 3rd or 4th order highpass at about 1.7kHz (yes, slightly below what's recommended) and get a notch filter on the cone break-up peaks on the woofer.
Chris
- I'm not sure it'll work well. 8" 2-way designs are difficult and ask a lot of the drivers at play. In your case, the 8" cone is getting peaky (and that's on a smoothed graph) just above 2kHz, so I'd be concerned that your crossover won't attenuate that enough. You'll also be running the tweeter right at the edge of its capabilities.
That's all apart from the off-axis response - 8" cones have fairly narrow directivity above 1kHz-ish, and then when the tweeter comes in it'll have really wide dispersion again. So, listening off-axis will have a dip in the midrange if your on-axis response is flat.
Similar to a 15"/1" PA speaker. Even if it's okay straight in front (rarely the case), take a few steps to the side and the midrange disappears.
- You'll almost certainly need to attenuate the tweeter, and maybe implement a baffle-step filter. You'll note from your PA experience that speakers put up on stands tend to have less bass than the same placed on the floor - same sort of deal.
- You can use WinISD Pro or Hornresp to calculate your cabinets. WinISD Pro is easier for beginners, but Hornresp allows you to simulate all sorts of interesting cabinets. Don't just guess a bass reflex box.
- Off-the-shelf crossovers will usually work in the sense that they'll prevent bass getting to the tweeter and treble getting to the woofer. It's almost certain that they won't align a given set of drivers properly, though. If you want to buy an off-the-shelf crossover, only buy the crossover intended for your exact drivers.
Overall, I'd say it's going to be a fairly difficult first project. If I was going to try to make the best of it, I'd grab a measurement mic (even a Behringer ECM8000 isn't bad if you're aligning a crossover at 2kHz) and a USB audio interface (Behringer's UMC202HD is pretty good), do some measurements with REW (free), simulate the crossover in XSim (free again) and build something specific for those particular drivers. I'd probably aim for a 3rd or 4th order highpass at about 1.7kHz (yes, slightly below what's recommended) and get a notch filter on the cone break-up peaks on the woofer.
Chris
Thank you very much for your in-depth response Chris, I highly appreciate it.
For the moment, I do plan to make the most of this setup, and In the future perhaps build a floorstanding cabinet for a 3-way to add a 3 or 4 inch midwoofer, and then build a custom, specific crossover.
I have not yet researched baffle-step compensation or proper axis attenuation - This is something I will be looking into, and experimentally modify according.
For this I appreciate your budget measurement gear recommendation, I've added a few bookmarks, and will install the mentioned programs (Have used hornresp before to build a tapped horn subwoofer)
Is it possible for me, for the time being, to get a decent sound using software EQ programs to modify the signal digitally, until I can do it in analog fashion?¨
Again, thanks for your response!
For the moment, I do plan to make the most of this setup, and In the future perhaps build a floorstanding cabinet for a 3-way to add a 3 or 4 inch midwoofer, and then build a custom, specific crossover.
I have not yet researched baffle-step compensation or proper axis attenuation - This is something I will be looking into, and experimentally modify according.
For this I appreciate your budget measurement gear recommendation, I've added a few bookmarks, and will install the mentioned programs (Have used hornresp before to build a tapped horn subwoofer)
Is it possible for me, for the time being, to get a decent sound using software EQ programs to modify the signal digitally, until I can do it in analog fashion?¨
Again, thanks for your response!
I'd ask the guys over at partsexpress. If you're lucky someone may simulate a crossover for you. The ZMA/FRD files for the woofer are on the partsexpress shop website, but unfortunately I don't think they sell Monacor drivers.
Or better still, send everything back and look for a kit. You may find something you like here: Parts Express Project Gallery
Or better still, send everything back and look for a kit. You may find something you like here: Parts Express Project Gallery
If you really want to do it yourself, take a look here: Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement
A book worth reading is 'The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook'
A book worth reading is 'The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook'
Might be alright to introduce Monacor wg300 to the rest of the components and use available measurements online to simulate a bit. Off the shelf xo filter would probably need extra work to perform better.
No problem.
You can use EQ to flatten the overall response, of course. You use do that to account for baffle step as well as the higher tweeter sensitivity.
What EQ can't fix, though, is the resonances on the 8" cone. Since the EQ is being applied to the whole speaker, it won't attenuate those resonances on the woofers specifically.
You'll typically find that the peaks take a while to decay in the waterfall plot, as a sign of stored energy.
My recommendation of a notch filter on the 8"s still stands, then, but with EQ available you'll be able to get the speakers sounding pretty decent for what they are.
Chris
To me it makes more sense to ask these questions before you order the parts.
I would advise to go for small 2-way main speakers + 1 or 2 separate box(es) which play(s) the bass, placed in a corner of the room. Use sealed boxes and add a 2.1 or 4.1 amp.
I would advise to go for small 2-way main speakers + 1 or 2 separate box(es) which play(s) the bass, placed in a corner of the room. Use sealed boxes and add a 2.1 or 4.1 amp.
Thank you very much for your responses!
I checked out your work Chris, I love the double 10" PA tops you've built, great idea with the 2 application modes.
I agree that I should have consulted before both building a cabinet as well as ordering parts, the reason I chose this woofer and tweeter specifically is because of my percieved bang-for-the-buck value and power handling; again, I come from PA, so I probably focus on max SPL a bit too much.
I've come to this idea: Add the WG300 waveguide to the DT300, add another DS215 woofer In two new, specifically designed and tuned cabinets, and build a crossover from scratch.
My idea is that I can achieve clean and flat sound, but with high sensitivity In this fashion, what do you guys reckon?
The waveguide is supposed to take the tweeter to 95-96db/w, and if i add another woofer to the 89.9db/w Its rated at, I should hit around 93db/w and have a 4ohm rating If run parallel.
Then attenuate the tweeter those 2-3db sensitivity, and that way achieve low distortion.
What crossover and box would you guys recommend? Also, do you perhaps have a link to a good guide on how to attenuate a tweeter? ^^
Thank you very much for your time!
I checked out your work Chris, I love the double 10" PA tops you've built, great idea with the 2 application modes.
I agree that I should have consulted before both building a cabinet as well as ordering parts, the reason I chose this woofer and tweeter specifically is because of my percieved bang-for-the-buck value and power handling; again, I come from PA, so I probably focus on max SPL a bit too much.
I've come to this idea: Add the WG300 waveguide to the DT300, add another DS215 woofer In two new, specifically designed and tuned cabinets, and build a crossover from scratch.
My idea is that I can achieve clean and flat sound, but with high sensitivity In this fashion, what do you guys reckon?
The waveguide is supposed to take the tweeter to 95-96db/w, and if i add another woofer to the 89.9db/w Its rated at, I should hit around 93db/w and have a 4ohm rating If run parallel.
Then attenuate the tweeter those 2-3db sensitivity, and that way achieve low distortion.
What crossover and box would you guys recommend? Also, do you perhaps have a link to a good guide on how to attenuate a tweeter? ^^
Thank you very much for your time!
I was really happy to read your post as this sounds a lot like me 35 years ago. Taking a bass driver, a tweeter and a ready made crossover. And of course, they will produce sound. And it will sound good to you because you made them yourself. Nothing wrong with that, its all subjective.
When you read more research and posts on this forum you will realize that there is much more to this hobby, measuring, simulating, testing etc etc. The actual build is the smaller part of the work..
I just want to say -welcome to a hobby that can last a lifetime if you want it to🙂
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Thank you mister 🙂
Youre absolutely right, It sounds good to me, and with EQ does what I need it to, but I've already learnt alot just from this first build and your replies.
I thought I would be satisfied with this setup, but It has only made me thirsty for a more complex, unique and properly engineered project 😀
Im quite unsatisfied with the cabinets, and the tuning freq Is too high, so I am looking into converting the existing drivers into a 3-way design with a 5" or so midrage plus another bass-driver and waveguide for the dt300, and making a new crossover.
Any tips on a 2x8 1x5 +tweeter cabinet plan or so? I think Ill contact a professional carpenter for this one ^^
Youre absolutely right, It sounds good to me, and with EQ does what I need it to, but I've already learnt alot just from this first build and your replies.
I thought I would be satisfied with this setup, but It has only made me thirsty for a more complex, unique and properly engineered project 😀
Im quite unsatisfied with the cabinets, and the tuning freq Is too high, so I am looking into converting the existing drivers into a 3-way design with a 5" or so midrage plus another bass-driver and waveguide for the dt300, and making a new crossover.
Any tips on a 2x8 1x5 +tweeter cabinet plan or so? I think Ill contact a professional carpenter for this one ^^