Hello everyone! I recently took my first stab at vintage parts in bulk and I am looking for some help on identifying what brand a few caps are (if that is possible). The capacitors below are from 10 peg boards I bought. These were pulled from a working Organ according to the seller. I have no idea why they did, but it was NOT me who pulled them, I simply bought them.
A couple questions before I post the pictures. So I know that you usually never want to buy vintage electrolytic caps due to their tendency to fail or leak after half a century, lol. However if we are only talking about Metalized film (Mylar), Paper in Oil (PIO), Silver Mica caps etc. these caps should in theory last forever (at least a century), if used and/or stored properly, right?
How does Gudeman Co capacitors rank with other vintage capacitor brands. They were very few and far between on Ebay even compared to "rare" Sprague and Mallory caps of the same time period. I have about two dozen of the Gudeman Co caps in various values, not shown here because I know that cap brand!
Okay now for the pictures and please bare with me if the pictures I first post aren't detailed enough to see labels. I will post high resolution pictures later today if needed. Thanks for any help you can provide! Also I apologize if the pictures aren't formatted correctly, I am posting from my phone.
Need info on the shiny brown caps with black ends, far left in the (1st picture). Info on one of these caps:
178-6338 A0-503-65 .22MFD 400 VDC
What are the two black caps with each end either red or white. I saw one company that looked close, could they be Temple brand? Info on one of these caps:
A0-507-14 1064-6536 500MFD 25WVDC
How about the brownish burgundy caps between the black with red and white ends and the white bodied capacitors. They almost look like little sausages, lol. (1st picture far right) Info on one of these caps:
A0-506-16.33 +-10% 100VDC 446 6705
Next is the white capacitors right between both of the brownish caps (1st picture)? Info on one of these caps:
A0-503-57 .047 MFD 400 VDC 569-6338
How about the shiny silver capacitors between the two black bodied capacitors (2nd picture)? Info on one of these caps:
Elyt 100uF 3V A 0-507-1 W12
Full Res #1 https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/15896939/img/Vintage-Parts-%26-HiFi/20171016-121457.jpg
Full Res #2 https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/15896943/img/Vintage-Parts-%26-HiFi/20171016-124801.jpg
I will come back and post the part numbers for each. Also, I was shocked when I found out how much money the burgundy ceramic caps that say "Hi-Q" are worth today. $20-$30 per pair! That recovers the cost of the entire vintage lot.
I am also wondering about my Mallory PIO caps, is it okay or normal for the outer cylinder (part with the label on it) of the caps to spin around the inner part/core? Or is this meant to be secured?
I thought carbon comp resistors were desirable in HiFi, but the more I read the less I saw it that way. I know Allen Bradley resistors are highly sought after, but what separates those from your standard vintage carbon comp? I have loads of vintage resistors now, including the oldest style I know of (2nd pic, see green components).
Speaking of those 5W green and redish-orange 5% accuracy resistors, do they have any modern-day value? Are these similar to the resistors used in HF radio applications due to the fact they don't have inductance like most resistors?
How do you tell what ceramic caps brands are if there is barely any info on the actual component? I saw a lot of people calling the exact same ceramics I have (including all the info printed on the cap) as Mallory, but I still haven't figured out how to prove that.
Is this one of those parts after you remove it from the original retail packaging it is impossible to distinguish high end brands from low end? Or what am I missing that marks them with as Mallory or not. How about resistors? How do you know you have genuine Allen Bradley resistors without seeing the retail packaging or a receipt?
Do you all think I did okay for less than $30 invested on Ebay?
A couple questions before I post the pictures. So I know that you usually never want to buy vintage electrolytic caps due to their tendency to fail or leak after half a century, lol. However if we are only talking about Metalized film (Mylar), Paper in Oil (PIO), Silver Mica caps etc. these caps should in theory last forever (at least a century), if used and/or stored properly, right?
How does Gudeman Co capacitors rank with other vintage capacitor brands. They were very few and far between on Ebay even compared to "rare" Sprague and Mallory caps of the same time period. I have about two dozen of the Gudeman Co caps in various values, not shown here because I know that cap brand!
Okay now for the pictures and please bare with me if the pictures I first post aren't detailed enough to see labels. I will post high resolution pictures later today if needed. Thanks for any help you can provide! Also I apologize if the pictures aren't formatted correctly, I am posting from my phone.
Need info on the shiny brown caps with black ends, far left in the (1st picture). Info on one of these caps:
178-6338 A0-503-65 .22MFD 400 VDC
What are the two black caps with each end either red or white. I saw one company that looked close, could they be Temple brand? Info on one of these caps:
A0-507-14 1064-6536 500MFD 25WVDC
How about the brownish burgundy caps between the black with red and white ends and the white bodied capacitors. They almost look like little sausages, lol. (1st picture far right) Info on one of these caps:
A0-506-16.33 +-10% 100VDC 446 6705
Next is the white capacitors right between both of the brownish caps (1st picture)? Info on one of these caps:
A0-503-57 .047 MFD 400 VDC 569-6338
How about the shiny silver capacitors between the two black bodied capacitors (2nd picture)? Info on one of these caps:
Elyt 100uF 3V A 0-507-1 W12
Full Res #1 https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/15896939/img/Vintage-Parts-%26-HiFi/20171016-121457.jpg
Full Res #2 https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/15896943/img/Vintage-Parts-%26-HiFi/20171016-124801.jpg
I will come back and post the part numbers for each. Also, I was shocked when I found out how much money the burgundy ceramic caps that say "Hi-Q" are worth today. $20-$30 per pair! That recovers the cost of the entire vintage lot.
I am also wondering about my Mallory PIO caps, is it okay or normal for the outer cylinder (part with the label on it) of the caps to spin around the inner part/core? Or is this meant to be secured?
I thought carbon comp resistors were desirable in HiFi, but the more I read the less I saw it that way. I know Allen Bradley resistors are highly sought after, but what separates those from your standard vintage carbon comp? I have loads of vintage resistors now, including the oldest style I know of (2nd pic, see green components).
Speaking of those 5W green and redish-orange 5% accuracy resistors, do they have any modern-day value? Are these similar to the resistors used in HF radio applications due to the fact they don't have inductance like most resistors?
How do you tell what ceramic caps brands are if there is barely any info on the actual component? I saw a lot of people calling the exact same ceramics I have (including all the info printed on the cap) as Mallory, but I still haven't figured out how to prove that.
Is this one of those parts after you remove it from the original retail packaging it is impossible to distinguish high end brands from low end? Or what am I missing that marks them with as Mallory or not. How about resistors? How do you know you have genuine Allen Bradley resistors without seeing the retail packaging or a receipt?
Do you all think I did okay for less than $30 invested on Ebay?
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I can't believe you cut up a Hammond organ for the capacitors. They are beautiful instruments. I play mine. More durable than the short lived rubber switch keyboards **** they sell these days. ***-**** disk drives, you can't buy a replacement for love nor money, the model in your keyboard is "obsolete".
All the lower caps in the top picture are forever caps. The reddish brown ones on top of the tone generator are known to be mallories from stories on the internet, although not marked that way. Beighish caps at very top may be 1965 plastic film or pre-1964 paper dielectric caps, the color difference is kind of subtle. The 64 and previous paper TG caps tended to go high value pretty frequently after 25 years. Paper TG caps caused B3 of that era to be "mellow" but many recordings were made in the seventies of organs with that defect. I like the more shrill plastic sound. If I hate the highs today I can use computer processing to remove them post-recording.
The electrolytics in the middle of the bottom picture tend to be scrap. Electrolytics on the lower right, same. They are the reason h100 are $100 organs and C3 are $3000. You can measure them with an ESR meter. I changed 76 electrolytics out in my H100, and have 115 to go on the harp board. If bottom center devices are red end tantalum caps, they are particularly prone to fail. Conrad Hoffman tried to talk me into measuring these electrolytics before changing on another thread, what a laugh. The meter costs more than all the caps except the tall cans. My H100 sounded like a wet kazoo when I bought it, not the TG's fault.
B/C3 has paper caps which don't have the twenty year curse the electrolytics of 1966-1970 had so that makes that organ "legendary". Same tone generator, less wheels then the H100. E100 had the same wheels exactly, just different "percussion" (attack envelope). E100 also sounded like **** after 30 years, all due to **** caps in the amps. People changed the e- caps in their leslies the B/C3 used, somthing about tending to explode messily drawing attention to the problem.
Hammond Chicago plant used AB or Sprague carbon comp resistors in the late 60's. These have a better quality paint than lesser brands, and are not subject to humidity damage unless the coating is burned. They look identical apart, the only reason I know of sprague mil spec carbon comps is I saw a catalog in 1976. Dynaco used the long life carbon comps, and guitar amp repairman David told me HH Scott used them too. I think the Navy must have driven this coating improvement. These carbon comps look the same as RCR RWR milspec parts JSC was using in the late 70's. But the commercial ones are not established reliability, just a similar process to mil-spec. In general carbon comps are hissier than metal film, but have lower self inductance if you are building a radio/TV.
Carbon comp resistors installed in Netherland built hammonds of 66-70 look the same, but are highly subject to resistance change, especially in locations near the sea. Note a X66 from a UK island that needed every carbon comp resistor changed, values published as very wrong.
Green resistors are wirewound. No better or worse than modern ones IMHO.
All the lower caps in the top picture are forever caps. The reddish brown ones on top of the tone generator are known to be mallories from stories on the internet, although not marked that way. Beighish caps at very top may be 1965 plastic film or pre-1964 paper dielectric caps, the color difference is kind of subtle. The 64 and previous paper TG caps tended to go high value pretty frequently after 25 years. Paper TG caps caused B3 of that era to be "mellow" but many recordings were made in the seventies of organs with that defect. I like the more shrill plastic sound. If I hate the highs today I can use computer processing to remove them post-recording.
The electrolytics in the middle of the bottom picture tend to be scrap. Electrolytics on the lower right, same. They are the reason h100 are $100 organs and C3 are $3000. You can measure them with an ESR meter. I changed 76 electrolytics out in my H100, and have 115 to go on the harp board. If bottom center devices are red end tantalum caps, they are particularly prone to fail. Conrad Hoffman tried to talk me into measuring these electrolytics before changing on another thread, what a laugh. The meter costs more than all the caps except the tall cans. My H100 sounded like a wet kazoo when I bought it, not the TG's fault.
B/C3 has paper caps which don't have the twenty year curse the electrolytics of 1966-1970 had so that makes that organ "legendary". Same tone generator, less wheels then the H100. E100 had the same wheels exactly, just different "percussion" (attack envelope). E100 also sounded like **** after 30 years, all due to **** caps in the amps. People changed the e- caps in their leslies the B/C3 used, somthing about tending to explode messily drawing attention to the problem.
Hammond Chicago plant used AB or Sprague carbon comp resistors in the late 60's. These have a better quality paint than lesser brands, and are not subject to humidity damage unless the coating is burned. They look identical apart, the only reason I know of sprague mil spec carbon comps is I saw a catalog in 1976. Dynaco used the long life carbon comps, and guitar amp repairman David told me HH Scott used them too. I think the Navy must have driven this coating improvement. These carbon comps look the same as RCR RWR milspec parts JSC was using in the late 70's. But the commercial ones are not established reliability, just a similar process to mil-spec. In general carbon comps are hissier than metal film, but have lower self inductance if you are building a radio/TV.
Carbon comp resistors installed in Netherland built hammonds of 66-70 look the same, but are highly subject to resistance change, especially in locations near the sea. Note a X66 from a UK island that needed every carbon comp resistor changed, values published as very wrong.
Green resistors are wirewound. No better or worse than modern ones IMHO.
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I have made the same experience. Doubling or even tripling their nominal capacitance values appears to be very common for wax paper TWG or delay line capacitors.
For what I'm informed or have seen, the B-3/C-3/A-100/D-100/RT-3 TWG features 96 wheels, five of whose are blanks, so it produces 91 tones. The H-100 TWG has 96 active wheels for 96 tones - eight full octaves. The E-100 TWG has 84 wheels, a H-100 generator lacking the bottom octave, the lowest bass notes being deduced from the following octave by a monophonic frequency divider.
Best regards!
Who said I cut it up? I purchased about 10 peg boards, I never saw the organ. I didn't even know it what brand the organ was, Hammond sounds like a good guess though. Thank you for the info you provided for me.
I think I figured out those little "sausage" capacitors are Good-All based on this Ebay ad and the pictures:
Vintage Good-All Capacitor .001 uf 600v Red Molded Treble Bleed Cap | eBay
Yes, you are both correct about some of the capacitors going well past their stock capacitance ratings. Sadly most of the highly sought after Gudeman Co caps are included in this deviation group.
Should this be a concern when using/selling them after the deviation from stock is known? If so, how far of a deviation is acceptable outside of the stock precision rating of 5-20% ?
So you are saying there is a very good chance these carbon comp resistors are either Allen Bradley or Sprague mil spec? I have about 200 of them!
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Full Res1: https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/15897904/img/Vintage-Parts-%26-HiFi/10170303Sm.jpg
Full Res2: https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/15897903/img/Vintage-Parts-%26-HiFi/10170302sm.jpg
Full Res3: https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/15897902/img/Vintage-Parts-%26-HiFi/10170301sm.jpg
Full Res4: https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/15897901/img/Vintage-Parts-%26-HiFi/10170299Sm.jpg
The final "Full Res4" is the best of all the pictures here. It allows you to see in greater detail from the others, a sharp picture of vintage parts, in my opinion that is. I do take photography as a serious hobby.
Are these pictures "good" enough for you to confirm they are Allen Bradley or Siemens Mil Spec? I owe you a great gratitude coming into my thread and giving everyone who ventures to my thread your first person and hands on knowledge. If we are talking about PCs or guitars and amps, especially my highly modded Fender Blues Jr. all tube except the rectifier and reverb (2x EL84 and 3x 12AX7) I love tube sound... I am currently trying to build my own DSD64 to DSD1024 natively decoded with perfectly low jitter. I might even try a R2R design some day.
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ZoSo, you haven't identified why you bought the boards, and why you have then laboriously removed all the individual parts?
It seems as if you are preparing snake-oil part descriptions by trying to associate vintage passive parts with some sort of holy-grail marketing illusion.
It seems as if you are preparing snake-oil part descriptions by trying to associate vintage passive parts with some sort of holy-grail marketing illusion.
It is stated pretty plainly in the title and the 1st post what I am looking for here, part & brand identification help.
I haven't claimed anything on any supposed performance as I haven't tested them myself. I am trying to sort the valuable from the junk at this point. What I eventually do with them has nothing to do with the info I am trying to gather.
I can figure the value of the parts and which are worth keeping after I know who made them. What else was anyone going to do with random peg boards except disassemble them? You make it sound so hard to do this, it took me 2 hours to remove everything. Not a big deal.
The basic answer to your question is this, I knew there was enough value on the peg boards from the photos in the ad to cover the cost paid. So I will either use them or sell them.
I haven't claimed anything on any supposed performance as I haven't tested them myself. I am trying to sort the valuable from the junk at this point. What I eventually do with them has nothing to do with the info I am trying to gather.
I can figure the value of the parts and which are worth keeping after I know who made them. What else was anyone going to do with random peg boards except disassemble them? You make it sound so hard to do this, it took me 2 hours to remove everything. Not a big deal.
The basic answer to your question is this, I knew there was enough value on the peg boards from the photos in the ad to cover the cost paid. So I will either use them or sell them.
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I found out some more good news on the parts I have pictured above.
Those ceramic capacitors with what is called on some forums a "Circle D" capacitor are actually Cornell Dubilier!! These things bring $10-$20 each on Ebay due to the rarity!! I have roughly 30 of them from the organ pull.
Those ceramic capacitors with what is called on some forums a "Circle D" capacitor are actually Cornell Dubilier!! These things bring $10-$20 each on Ebay due to the rarity!! I have roughly 30 of them from the organ pull.
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This thread was very unexpected, and frankly, shocking. Are you telling me people pay money for this garbage? I've thrown away tons of this sort of crap when restoring old gear, and will continue to do so. It is not fit for use, modern stuff is miles better, and safe. There's some really, really crazy people in the audio tinkering hobby. It's depressing how willfull ignorance is so strong among people, even in this day and age.
These devices are possibly so aberrant they do make effects boxes. There is a cap museum full of pics, Sprague right here in MA made many too.
I don't make people pay the money they do for vintage hardware. Plenty of people are doing vintage HiFi these days. Some of these parts are the only missing puzzle piece to their dream rig actually working. The prices are based purely on supply and demand, that is obvious with a little comparison to Sprague or Mallory "rare" parts and their outlandish prices.
This thread was solely to find help at identifying literally antique hardware such as the ceramic caps that do stand the test of time (usually). I wasn't trying to get reactions out of people, I was simply looking for info. I am literally doing Recycling 101 here and yet I have people getting an attitude over it. Don't get mad at me that you threw away valuable hardware.
If that isn't the kind of thing the parts board is for then I will refrain asking help here in the future. It was TDPRI that gave me the proof on Cornell Dubilier ceramic caps alongside the Hi-Q and ERIE. All of those are valuable to this day.
This thread was solely to find help at identifying literally antique hardware such as the ceramic caps that do stand the test of time (usually). I wasn't trying to get reactions out of people, I was simply looking for info. I am literally doing Recycling 101 here and yet I have people getting an attitude over it. Don't get mad at me that you threw away valuable hardware.
If that isn't the kind of thing the parts board is for then I will refrain asking help here in the future. It was TDPRI that gave me the proof on Cornell Dubilier ceramic caps alongside the Hi-Q and ERIE. All of those are valuable to this day.
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This is a forum, people can post anything they like within the rules, you've had some help and may yet get more if you keep your hair on 😉
I'm not the one trying to stir the pot in here. Random people giving zero valuable input for the thread are trying to derail an honest to God question on manufacturers. I had no idea recycling/reselling parts was held in such contempt. If you don't like vintage hardware, why come in a thread so clearly labeled?
Question I am left with now is how to figure out for sure which resistor manufacturer I have, either AB or Siemens Mil spec. How or does it matter? I could advertise a sale to say "Either AB or Siemens Mil spec", I have purchased dual ferrite beads that had a similiar wording in the sale ad.
I will definitely be holding on to some of this though. The PIO Mallory caps still test nearly on the dot to stock rating.
Oh yeah, another question, does the 20 year curse apply to NOS capacitors (never been used)?
Question I am left with now is how to figure out for sure which resistor manufacturer I have, either AB or Siemens Mil spec. How or does it matter? I could advertise a sale to say "Either AB or Siemens Mil spec", I have purchased dual ferrite beads that had a similiar wording in the sale ad.
I will definitely be holding on to some of this though. The PIO Mallory caps still test nearly on the dot to stock rating.
Oh yeah, another question, does the 20 year curse apply to NOS capacitors (never been used)?
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Aside from safety issues I was just making an observation. It is true the vintage instrument thing seems silly at times but it can make $1000's difference in a rare piece. A lot of stomp boxes have a sound that is just a fortuitous combination of components put together by ear and only original replacement parts are acceptable to the users.
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