Even though I heard about exciters few years ago, I never took them serious as hi-fi , standalone loudspeaker option.
Looking at various videos on YouTube just confirmed my initial beliefs:
- typical DML video always showed different enthusiasts, often playing with XPS or various other similar soft insulation materials, trying various surface treatments, various methods for exciter mounting, suspension, etc. but in the end, sound quality that these DIY creations produced was far away from hi-fi quality.
One thing they had in common - they all lack bass.
Event though some of them could reach lower than 100Hz, the bass produced didn't had sufficient authority, so they all required additional subwoofer to reproduce lowest octaves properly.
So I almost dismissed idea that high quality DML system could be created, until I started to read "DML full range study" thread.
I read that thread for a long time, and at one point I finally decided to play with exciters, to see their full potential
as full range , high quality loudspeakers.
Anyway, I purchased my first exciters=> "Xcite" XT32-4.
After I install them for first time, I was surprised by all the usual good sides of DMLs:
But as I didn't play with DSP, the frequency curve was way off, there was no bass, and I stopped with experiments for a few months.
So nothing was happening, and I was idling until one day I decided to give DMLs second chance => this time I used large piece of dibond composite panel (about 800mm height and 600m width),
installed two XT32-4 drivers on single panel, and hanged the whole panel on thin elastic strings.
I secured both drivers to prevent movement and connected each driver to one stereo channel of my smallest bluetooth amp (2x6W RMS !).
Without DSP, this panel sounded considerably better, but still not perfect so I used equalizer, performed couple of REW sweeps, and after couple of days, the sound coming from this single panel was impressive - I couldn't believe that
single piece of panel could sound so good => it had all the benefits of typical open-baffle sound (like my home speakers), but with extremely wide dispersion.
Here is the video link to one test song :
Then I played all kind of music for a few months, to find good & bad points, and I concluded that DMLs indeed have potential as hi-fi standalone speakers, though they still have to be refined, especially if I want to reproduce lowest octaves.
What was strange at that time, most of DML enthusiasts discussed how panels should be attached to frame, at couple points, if you want good bass reproduction.
My thinking was totally opposite - I should have sufficiently strong panel, and then I should enable maximum panel movement , to have largest stroke possible, if I want to have good low frequency reproduction.
So I decided to go against the flow - I decided to make relatively small DML panel, with large stroke, that should have following specs:
a) Standalone speaker design,
b) Panel will be mounted vertical, but with hidden frame & hidden suspension,
b) Single composite panel (910mm height x 320mm width),
c) 2-way design (one exciter for bass, two exciters for mid/high range),
d) Soft suspension (to enable more than +/- 5mm stroke),
e) Two stereo amps, with integrated DSP : 2 x 120 W for bass exciter, 2 x60 W for mid/high range.
After couple of months, I completed my prototypes, and then I spent few days with REW to finely tune DSP.
The final result is that I could reach 35Hz (-3dB), in my small office, and that for the first time I could hear and feel bass from DML panel, without any subwoofer.
Here are some demos - first is a YouTube video , with four different songs (jazz drums, two songs from "Gladiator" movies, and two choir songs):
If you listen first song, check sound of kick drum - it is quick, goes deep, and is very well defined => I stil couldn't find similar bass reproduction from any of the DML YouTube videos yet.
(NOTE: sound was recorded with "Tascam" DR-05X digital recorder , in 24bit/96kHz quality.)
Looking at various videos on YouTube just confirmed my initial beliefs:
- typical DML video always showed different enthusiasts, often playing with XPS or various other similar soft insulation materials, trying various surface treatments, various methods for exciter mounting, suspension, etc. but in the end, sound quality that these DIY creations produced was far away from hi-fi quality.
One thing they had in common - they all lack bass.
Event though some of them could reach lower than 100Hz, the bass produced didn't had sufficient authority, so they all required additional subwoofer to reproduce lowest octaves properly.
So I almost dismissed idea that high quality DML system could be created, until I started to read "DML full range study" thread.
I read that thread for a long time, and at one point I finally decided to play with exciters, to see their full potential
as full range , high quality loudspeakers.
Anyway, I purchased my first exciters=> "Xcite" XT32-4.
After I install them for first time, I was surprised by all the usual good sides of DMLs:
- Extremely wide dispersion,
- Clean sound.
But as I didn't play with DSP, the frequency curve was way off, there was no bass, and I stopped with experiments for a few months.
So nothing was happening, and I was idling until one day I decided to give DMLs second chance => this time I used large piece of dibond composite panel (about 800mm height and 600m width),
installed two XT32-4 drivers on single panel, and hanged the whole panel on thin elastic strings.
I secured both drivers to prevent movement and connected each driver to one stereo channel of my smallest bluetooth amp (2x6W RMS !).
Without DSP, this panel sounded considerably better, but still not perfect so I used equalizer, performed couple of REW sweeps, and after couple of days, the sound coming from this single panel was impressive - I couldn't believe that
single piece of panel could sound so good => it had all the benefits of typical open-baffle sound (like my home speakers), but with extremely wide dispersion.
Here is the video link to one test song :
Then I played all kind of music for a few months, to find good & bad points, and I concluded that DMLs indeed have potential as hi-fi standalone speakers, though they still have to be refined, especially if I want to reproduce lowest octaves.
What was strange at that time, most of DML enthusiasts discussed how panels should be attached to frame, at couple points, if you want good bass reproduction.
My thinking was totally opposite - I should have sufficiently strong panel, and then I should enable maximum panel movement , to have largest stroke possible, if I want to have good low frequency reproduction.
So I decided to go against the flow - I decided to make relatively small DML panel, with large stroke, that should have following specs:
a) Standalone speaker design,
b) Panel will be mounted vertical, but with hidden frame & hidden suspension,
b) Single composite panel (910mm height x 320mm width),
c) 2-way design (one exciter for bass, two exciters for mid/high range),
d) Soft suspension (to enable more than +/- 5mm stroke),
e) Two stereo amps, with integrated DSP : 2 x 120 W for bass exciter, 2 x60 W for mid/high range.
After couple of months, I completed my prototypes, and then I spent few days with REW to finely tune DSP.
The final result is that I could reach 35Hz (-3dB), in my small office, and that for the first time I could hear and feel bass from DML panel, without any subwoofer.
Here are some demos - first is a YouTube video , with four different songs (jazz drums, two songs from "Gladiator" movies, and two choir songs):
If you listen first song, check sound of kick drum - it is quick, goes deep, and is very well defined => I stil couldn't find similar bass reproduction from any of the DML YouTube videos yet.
(NOTE: sound was recorded with "Tascam" DR-05X digital recorder , in 24bit/96kHz quality.)
2 sonomanie:
Please note that this is a prototype, purposely designed to check behavior of DML panel with two completely different exciters,which are working together as 2-way system on common panel.
These were my goals:
1. First to get usable bass to low 30-Hz from bass exciter,
2. Then to optimize suspension for large panel stroke,
3. Then to play with various crossover frequencies & DSP,
4. Finally to check how loud I can play until bass exciter starts to push mid/high exciters close to their maximum stroke.
So far, I could manage to push mid/high exciters to their maximum stroke,but this is on volume much higher than I want to listen in my small office.
Please note that this is a prototype, purposely designed to check behavior of DML panel with two completely different exciters,which are working together as 2-way system on common panel.
These were my goals:
1. First to get usable bass to low 30-Hz from bass exciter,
2. Then to optimize suspension for large panel stroke,
3. Then to play with various crossover frequencies & DSP,
4. Finally to check how loud I can play until bass exciter starts to push mid/high exciters close to their maximum stroke.
So far, I could manage to push mid/high exciters to their maximum stroke,but this is on volume much higher than I want to listen in my small office.
Exciting! Good work.
- So you had 3 exciters on each panel?
- Did you use different exciter models for bass and treble, or the same XT32-4 for each?
- What amp(s)?
- What is the material in the "2-way Test#1"? How thick?
- How are the exciters suspended/attached?
2 monosuna:
Thanks - actually now I am at stage where I want to push boundaries of DML design regarding bass/sub-bass performance of small panels - I could easily
design hybrid 2-way, but this is not fun as full-blown DML design 😎
This initial 2-way experiment showed that with careful engineering I can use similar technique like all modern portable bluetooth speakers manufacturers:
- Small surface + lot of stroke = decent bass.
I am already designing new DML prototype, that will be much, much more refined & complex, that I would like to commercialize one day.
To answer on your questions:
a) Yes, I installed 3 exciters on same panel. They are mounted close to each other, but with slight offset.
b) Yes, I used two different exciter types:
For mid/high exciters, I am using "Arylic" B50 amplifier, with 2 x 50 W RMS.
Both amps are Class D, with DSP.
d) Material that I am using in that YouTube video is ACP Dibond - Aluminum Composite Panel, 3mm thickness.
I am sure that there are better materials, and that thickness is not optimum for bass panels , but I had some leftovers, and they produce quite good sound.
e) Actual mounting of the exciters, and suspension design is not easy to explain, so here is one picture during one of many panel removals/installations:
Initially I used original "Xciter" mounting rings for "XT32-4" exciters, but I required stronger mounts, so I designed new mounting rings and machined them from anodized aluminum,, together with various other mounts:
Thanks - actually now I am at stage where I want to push boundaries of DML design regarding bass/sub-bass performance of small panels - I could easily
design hybrid 2-way, but this is not fun as full-blown DML design 😎
This initial 2-way experiment showed that with careful engineering I can use similar technique like all modern portable bluetooth speakers manufacturers:
- Small surface + lot of stroke = decent bass.
I am already designing new DML prototype, that will be much, much more refined & complex, that I would like to commercialize one day.
To answer on your questions:
a) Yes, I installed 3 exciters on same panel. They are mounted close to each other, but with slight offset.
b) Yes, I used two different exciter types:
- for bass, I used "Xcite" XTB40-4
- for mid/high, I used two "Xcite" XT32-8, connected in parallel,
For mid/high exciters, I am using "Arylic" B50 amplifier, with 2 x 50 W RMS.
Both amps are Class D, with DSP.
d) Material that I am using in that YouTube video is ACP Dibond - Aluminum Composite Panel, 3mm thickness.
I am sure that there are better materials, and that thickness is not optimum for bass panels , but I had some leftovers, and they produce quite good sound.
e) Actual mounting of the exciters, and suspension design is not easy to explain, so here is one picture during one of many panel removals/installations:
Initially I used original "Xciter" mounting rings for "XT32-4" exciters, but I required stronger mounts, so I designed new mounting rings and machined them from anodized aluminum,, together with various other mounts:
Interesting Bubba,
But I still don't think I understand fully how your panel is supported. Is it attached at (near?) the top to those two oval pads(?), and near the bottom just to the three exciters, which are themselves attached to the frame? I see also a pair of brackets at the bottom of the frame. Do those also support the panel in some way?
Those are some seriously nice mounts for the exciters!
Eric
2 Veleric:
As you also know, one of the biggest issues with any DML is panel suspension.
I spent quite some time watching movement of small panel during sudden bass impacts,and it was obvious that on lowest two octaves, panel is moving almost pistonic,as each impact moves forward complete panel with sufficient force.
Now as I wanted to hide complete frame & suspension, my first idea was to hang panels with some nylon fishing line or similar,but when I checked how much stroke was required,it was obvious that this will not work.
So, I decided to make elastic hidden suspension in all four corners,but to make it difficult for me it had to fulfill couple of terms:
a) I don't want to drill through panel (no visible fasteners on front!),
b) It had to be sufficiently elastic ,but still not to sag vertically due weight of the panel,
c) It should be sufficiently light,so I am not adding lot of moving mass,
d) And it should be as quiet as possible, to avoid coloring the sound.
To cut costs to minimum, I simply then spent couple of weeks in various hardware stores,art supply stores, even toy stores,trying to find suitable materials.
After I collected impressive collection hundreds of springs,coils,rubber bands,weather strips,flat bars,hooks,etc. I experimented and choose following method:
a) I found four towel steel hooks,with 3M stickers,that can hold up to 2kg each,
b) Then I bent them,drilled them and installed four rubber anti-vibration dampers (M4 thread) ,one damper per each hook
c) Then I marked position on four corners and glue steel hooks behind the panel,
d) After that ,I cut wooden frame,and marked approx. position of upper and lower hooks,
e) To enable high stroke of the panel on top,I used thin plastic strip that I attached firmly to frame.On each end of the plastic strip,I drilled hole for M4 anti-vibration damper,
f) On bottom, I used also thin plastic strips as suspension ,but bent in "L" shape due mounting constraints.Also, I drilled hole on each strip end,
g) So now I had top elastic spring,and two lower elastic springs,with holes-I then attached panel and tightened nuts.
Shortly, after all is completed, I had following combination: panel>hook mount>anti-vibration damper>elastic strip>wooden frame.
As you also know, one of the biggest issues with any DML is panel suspension.
I spent quite some time watching movement of small panel during sudden bass impacts,and it was obvious that on lowest two octaves, panel is moving almost pistonic,as each impact moves forward complete panel with sufficient force.
Now as I wanted to hide complete frame & suspension, my first idea was to hang panels with some nylon fishing line or similar,but when I checked how much stroke was required,it was obvious that this will not work.
So, I decided to make elastic hidden suspension in all four corners,but to make it difficult for me it had to fulfill couple of terms:
a) I don't want to drill through panel (no visible fasteners on front!),
b) It had to be sufficiently elastic ,but still not to sag vertically due weight of the panel,
c) It should be sufficiently light,so I am not adding lot of moving mass,
d) And it should be as quiet as possible, to avoid coloring the sound.
To cut costs to minimum, I simply then spent couple of weeks in various hardware stores,art supply stores, even toy stores,trying to find suitable materials.
After I collected impressive collection hundreds of springs,coils,rubber bands,weather strips,flat bars,hooks,etc. I experimented and choose following method:
a) I found four towel steel hooks,with 3M stickers,that can hold up to 2kg each,
b) Then I bent them,drilled them and installed four rubber anti-vibration dampers (M4 thread) ,one damper per each hook
c) Then I marked position on four corners and glue steel hooks behind the panel,
d) After that ,I cut wooden frame,and marked approx. position of upper and lower hooks,
e) To enable high stroke of the panel on top,I used thin plastic strip that I attached firmly to frame.On each end of the plastic strip,I drilled hole for M4 anti-vibration damper,
f) On bottom, I used also thin plastic strips as suspension ,but bent in "L" shape due mounting constraints.Also, I drilled hole on each strip end,
g) So now I had top elastic spring,and two lower elastic springs,with holes-I then attached panel and tightened nuts.
Shortly, after all is completed, I had following combination: panel>hook mount>anti-vibration damper>elastic strip>wooden frame.
I tried using 3mm Dibond but it reduces the power enormously, it's true that it's good for high frequencies but it's a problem for volume
2 pixel1:
Can you define "enormous" power reduction (how many dB at which frequencies, compared to which material)?
I don't care too much about panel efficiency,as these days, class D power is cheap,and to extract maximum you will need DSP anyway,so there is no point to design DML speakers exclusively for low powered ,single ended class A tube amps,with 5W RMS per channel.
(That said, my first experiments were with battery powered,2x6 W RMS Bluetooth class D amp,and volume was sufficient to fill my small office with sound,and to have some extra headroom).
Dibond is definitely heavier than typical DIY material that average DML enthusiasts are using (XPS, thin balsa plates,etc ) ,but it can at least cope with sudden,large bass transients and still offer excellent high frequency response,plus good dampening,without any special surface preparation.
When I monitor my panel behaviour during really aggressive, bass heavy music , I doubt that XPS panel,suspended in four corners,will survive abuse from centrally mounted XTB40 in the long term.
Additionally,at one point in future, I plan to step-up and make commercial, high-end DML design, and with XPS or similar light isolation material it will be extremely hard to market them as high-end , state-of-the-art panel solution.
Can you define "enormous" power reduction (how many dB at which frequencies, compared to which material)?
I don't care too much about panel efficiency,as these days, class D power is cheap,and to extract maximum you will need DSP anyway,so there is no point to design DML speakers exclusively for low powered ,single ended class A tube amps,with 5W RMS per channel.
(That said, my first experiments were with battery powered,2x6 W RMS Bluetooth class D amp,and volume was sufficient to fill my small office with sound,and to have some extra headroom).
Dibond is definitely heavier than typical DIY material that average DML enthusiasts are using (XPS, thin balsa plates,etc ) ,but it can at least cope with sudden,large bass transients and still offer excellent high frequency response,plus good dampening,without any special surface preparation.
When I monitor my panel behaviour during really aggressive, bass heavy music , I doubt that XPS panel,suspended in four corners,will survive abuse from centrally mounted XTB40 in the long term.
Additionally,at one point in future, I plan to step-up and make commercial, high-end DML design, and with XPS or similar light isolation material it will be extremely hard to market them as high-end , state-of-the-art panel solution.
Hi, I'm not a hi-fi enthusiast or anything like that, but I've been in the professional field for over 40 years. I just wanted to experiment with this idea for PA systems with not very high power, but useful for certain specific applications.
When I talk about power, I mean efficiency — and that's extremely important. If compared to carbon, Nomex, or certain types of foams, the efficiency drops to a third, then obviously it's not acceptable.
It's not a matter of amplifier output power; it's simply that if the system is inefficient, the drivers still have to work hard while producing very little.
Of course, if you're doing this for home use, it might be enough — but having something where you put in 100 and only get 30 out just doesn’t work.
When I talk about power, I mean efficiency — and that's extremely important. If compared to carbon, Nomex, or certain types of foams, the efficiency drops to a third, then obviously it's not acceptable.
It's not a matter of amplifier output power; it's simply that if the system is inefficient, the drivers still have to work hard while producing very little.
Of course, if you're doing this for home use, it might be enough — but having something where you put in 100 and only get 30 out just doesn’t work.
2 pixel1:
Not to go off-topic, but when you mentioned DML PA application, I only partial agree that panel efficiency (panel material) is extremely important:
The reason is because the construction of the exciter itself - for example if we compare any exciter to any PA woofer, exciter is like very small PA woofer, but without membrane & top suspension.
Now, when we are talking about sub bass /bass frequencies, the basic principles are almost identical as with conventional drivers: you need
to move as much volume of air as possible (large stroke and large panel surface).
Moving lot of air with DML panels mostly depends on following:
a) Number of exciters,
b) Applied power to exciter,
c) Exciter sensitivity (BL curve),
d) Suspension losses,
e) Panel surface area,
f) Panel stiffness,
g) Panel mass.
So theoretically, I could use lightest possible panel material, with excellent stiffness (the most efficient) , but if I:
Perfect example is DML 500, commercial PA loudspeaker on DML principle (https://flatpanelaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/FPA-DML500-Datasheet.pdf):
a) It has most efficient material for panel,
b) It has almost identical surface area as my panel,
c) It can handle 200W RMS,
According to your theory, DML 500 should be much more efficient through the whole frequency range due panel material, but let's check frequency response:
- it has -10dB point on 70hz, so even if it will be more efficient on mid/high range, it will be much less efficient on lowest octave.
Of course, we can argue that DML 500 is designed to be used with subwoofer, but I am just giving you example where identical panel surface & superior panel material is not efficient combination for lowest frequency reproduction.
Not to go off-topic, but when you mentioned DML PA application, I only partial agree that panel efficiency (panel material) is extremely important:
- for mid/highs maybe,
- but for sub bass/bass frequencies not so much.
The reason is because the construction of the exciter itself - for example if we compare any exciter to any PA woofer, exciter is like very small PA woofer, but without membrane & top suspension.
Now, when we are talking about sub bass /bass frequencies, the basic principles are almost identical as with conventional drivers: you need
to move as much volume of air as possible (large stroke and large panel surface).
Moving lot of air with DML panels mostly depends on following:
a) Number of exciters,
b) Applied power to exciter,
c) Exciter sensitivity (BL curve),
d) Suspension losses,
e) Panel surface area,
f) Panel stiffness,
g) Panel mass.
So theoretically, I could use lightest possible panel material, with excellent stiffness (the most efficient) , but if I:
- have large suspension losses (prevent full panel stroke),
- have exciter(s) with low sensitivity, I will not match heavier panel that has better suspension and more efficient exciters even on same power level.
Perfect example is DML 500, commercial PA loudspeaker on DML principle (https://flatpanelaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/FPA-DML500-Datasheet.pdf):
a) It has most efficient material for panel,
b) It has almost identical surface area as my panel,
c) It can handle 200W RMS,
According to your theory, DML 500 should be much more efficient through the whole frequency range due panel material, but let's check frequency response:
- it has -10dB point on 70hz, so even if it will be more efficient on mid/high range, it will be much less efficient on lowest octave.
Of course, we can argue that DML 500 is designed to be used with subwoofer, but I am just giving you example where identical panel surface & superior panel material is not efficient combination for lowest frequency reproduction.
Here is new YouTube video, to show how my panels are handling synthetic low bass - this song is from cult electronic band Yello:
This particular song has strong bass fundamental around 35Hz, as I analyzed content in Audacity spectral analyzer.
(NOTE: Unfortunately, during shooting of this video I had to disable one bass exciter, as I was modifying its mount, but even with only one bass exciter, panels are producing nice amount of clean & defined bass.)
This particular song has strong bass fundamental around 35Hz, as I analyzed content in Audacity spectral analyzer.
(NOTE: Unfortunately, during shooting of this video I had to disable one bass exciter, as I was modifying its mount, but even with only one bass exciter, panels are producing nice amount of clean & defined bass.)
for the PA it is not necessary or at least it is expendable the low frequency is indispensable everything else and I repeat the efficiency is too low with your panels, first of all it must sound loud otherwise it is useless and then it must cover the rest well except the bass. The thing that would distinguish if only it worked well would be the fact that if there are no crossovers in the middle of the band the system makes the difference but if you start to put them forget it. Obviously the low frequency crossover is indispensable but it does not cause damage
2 pixel1:
It seems that you completely missed point of my post:
Anyway, if you have to cover only >100Hz range, with DML,it is relatively easy to do it,even for PA applications,and there is a lot of info on this forum.
Getting 40 ,30 or even 20Hz clean extension from DML ...that is a whole different ball game.
It seems that you completely missed point of my post:
- idea behind my project was to explore how much low frequency extension can be extracted from small 2-way DML panel,
- your project requirements are totally different,and don't have too much in common with my project.
Anyway, if you have to cover only >100Hz range, with DML,it is relatively easy to do it,even for PA applications,and there is a lot of info on this forum.
Getting 40 ,30 or even 20Hz clean extension from DML ...that is a whole different ball game.
Bubba,
That bass is indeed impressive, and your speakers look great too.
I still didn't get a good mental picture of the suspension, even with your detailed explanation. Can you share a few pictures that might help?
Concerning the panel material, I wonder if you are familiar Alumalite Economy (previously called D-Lite) panels? Like Dibond they have aluminum skins and a polypropylene core and are 3 mm total thickness. The difference is that Alumalite uses a corrugated PP core, rather than a solid PP core, and as a result Alumalite is about 2/3 the weight of Dibond, with about the same stiffness. Having similar aluminum skins, I think they would meet your durability requirements.
I have identically sized (584x406 mm) panels of both Dibond and Alumalite and just did a quick frequency sweep with both panels (hanging from wires) using the same VT25-4 exciter. I got about 3 dB more output with the Alumalite compared to the Dibond, at the same input level. Also, the Alumalite was slightly better damped (less ringing) than the Dibond. I understand that maximizing efficiency wasn't your goal, but a lighter panel would probably provide more output with less effort over the entire frequency range. Maybe it's worth trying if you can find it or something similar in your region.
Alumalite Economy
Brochure
Eric
That bass is indeed impressive, and your speakers look great too.
I still didn't get a good mental picture of the suspension, even with your detailed explanation. Can you share a few pictures that might help?
Concerning the panel material, I wonder if you are familiar Alumalite Economy (previously called D-Lite) panels? Like Dibond they have aluminum skins and a polypropylene core and are 3 mm total thickness. The difference is that Alumalite uses a corrugated PP core, rather than a solid PP core, and as a result Alumalite is about 2/3 the weight of Dibond, with about the same stiffness. Having similar aluminum skins, I think they would meet your durability requirements.
I have identically sized (584x406 mm) panels of both Dibond and Alumalite and just did a quick frequency sweep with both panels (hanging from wires) using the same VT25-4 exciter. I got about 3 dB more output with the Alumalite compared to the Dibond, at the same input level. Also, the Alumalite was slightly better damped (less ringing) than the Dibond. I understand that maximizing efficiency wasn't your goal, but a lighter panel would probably provide more output with less effort over the entire frequency range. Maybe it's worth trying if you can find it or something similar in your region.
Alumalite Economy
Brochure
Eric
I tried aluminum in 1/8" (similar to your 3mm dibond), and found it was too hard to drive even for smaller panels.
I guess the question for me is if you can get the same bass extension from e.g. a panel half the thickness with half the exciter power (and weight)?
@Veleric What advantage does Alumalite have over straight aluminum? Have you tried eg ~1mm aluminum?
I guess the question for me is if you can get the same bass extension from e.g. a panel half the thickness with half the exciter power (and weight)?
@Veleric What advantage does Alumalite have over straight aluminum? Have you tried eg ~1mm aluminum?
2 Veleric:
Regarding bass performance of my panels:
- Yes,I am also extremely satisfied with their bass performance, especially when you see their small size. When I completed them, I thought that they are impressive , but I was not sure if I am maybe too subjective,so I cooled down and I searched through the web for weeks, to find good quality videos of various DML builds with best bass performance, but couldn't find anything that could beat them.
Funny note: if I play bass heavy music close to their maximum volume, both speakers start to move forward each time bass hits,as their frames are very light...in 15 seconds they can travel 1 meter ...it is funny as hell😀
Regarding their visual design:
-Thanks, I really appreciate that you like them. There are many standalone DML speakee variants with visible frame,but I wanted to have completely invisible frame AND invisible suspension,to have "panel-floating-in-the-air" effect. Also, they are slightly slanted towards back,to have more "dramatic" look.
Regarding my suspension details:
I fully understand ,so tomorrow I'll try to take couple of pictures from behind.
Regarding panel materials:
-I am not familiar with this particular material on your link,but after I tried 3mm dibond,it was obvious for me that ideal material, especially for bass panel would be some kind of sandwich,with relatively thick&light core, and with thin but strong skins like you proposed. Your material looks great candidate for bass panel, but unfortunately I cant get it locally here.
Actually, I am now in process of designing my first commercial DML speaker,that I modestly named M.O.A.D. (or "Mother Of All DMLs") 😀 so few week ago I was planning to order & try couple of very similar aluminum honeycomb boards like you proposed,that could be purchased locally, but then decided in last minute to order few square meters of CF sandwich panels instead.
Regarding bass performance of my panels:
- Yes,I am also extremely satisfied with their bass performance, especially when you see their small size. When I completed them, I thought that they are impressive , but I was not sure if I am maybe too subjective,so I cooled down and I searched through the web for weeks, to find good quality videos of various DML builds with best bass performance, but couldn't find anything that could beat them.
Funny note: if I play bass heavy music close to their maximum volume, both speakers start to move forward each time bass hits,as their frames are very light...in 15 seconds they can travel 1 meter ...it is funny as hell😀
Regarding their visual design:
-Thanks, I really appreciate that you like them. There are many standalone DML speakee variants with visible frame,but I wanted to have completely invisible frame AND invisible suspension,to have "panel-floating-in-the-air" effect. Also, they are slightly slanted towards back,to have more "dramatic" look.
Regarding my suspension details:
I fully understand ,so tomorrow I'll try to take couple of pictures from behind.
Regarding panel materials:
-I am not familiar with this particular material on your link,but after I tried 3mm dibond,it was obvious for me that ideal material, especially for bass panel would be some kind of sandwich,with relatively thick&light core, and with thin but strong skins like you proposed. Your material looks great candidate for bass panel, but unfortunately I cant get it locally here.
Actually, I am now in process of designing my first commercial DML speaker,that I modestly named M.O.A.D. (or "Mother Of All DMLs") 😀 so few week ago I was planning to order & try couple of very similar aluminum honeycomb boards like you proposed,that could be purchased locally, but then decided in last minute to order few square meters of CF sandwich panels instead.
If I am correct,you used 1/8" aluminum solid plate (not composite)?
In that case, you can't compare it with dibond,as dibond has 0.2mm aluminum skins and 2.6 mm plastic core=> much lighter than solid aluminum,but with much better damping.
As I explained above: lighter material can help to gain efficiency,but when you have powerful exciter like XTB40 pushing small panel, I am more afraid that my suspension will break than I am concerned with installing lighter panel.😉
2 Veleric:
Today I took couple of pics from behind the panel - hope that this will clarify suspension mounting:
Today I took couple of pics from behind the panel - hope that this will clarify suspension mounting:
Bubba, very nice and innovative build. I find your exciter placement very interesting. Did you experiment or somehow test different configurations and positions? I guess having one brace for holding all 3 exciters does make it more practical, but would it not be better to have the bass and other exciters much further apart? Just thinking aloud here.
But well done with this build and sharing it with us. All the best with your commercial endeavours.
But well done with this build and sharing it with us. All the best with your commercial endeavours.