440 not hemi.
I'm either in the wrong thread or on the wrong forum. Why would anyone ever seriously consider advice from this bunch again?
John
I'm either in the wrong thread or on the wrong forum. Why would anyone ever seriously consider advice from this bunch again?
John
jlsem said:
I would seriously consider advices from guys who do not hesitate to experiment, so knows a lot of things from own experience rather than from articles for fellow audiofools.
Hi Tweeker,
-Chris
It's still a semi-hemi no matter which way you look at it. Mind you, nothing wrong with a semi-hemi either. They went like a rocket from the factory.
-Chris
I was talking about stroking a 426 an 1/8th for 440ish, not sure that you could take one .070" over.
The heminess doesnt really make that huge a difference on modern pump "gas", but on certain oxygenates its another story...
The heminess doesnt really make that huge a difference on modern pump "gas", but on certain oxygenates its another story...
Hi Tweeker,
The chamber design is different between the two. Normally a Mopar will not allow you 70 thou. GM maybe, but not a Mopar as a rule. I know you can't on a 340.
I do think there is a lot more stroke on the 440 over the 426. Those were the days when you could play street hockey on the hood. A "Smart car" would not have been roadworthy back then.
Ever see a 500 CID Eldo Caddy smokin' the front tires? Uncool in a Caddy, but so darn cool to watch. 😀
-Chris
The chamber design is different between the two. Normally a Mopar will not allow you 70 thou. GM maybe, but not a Mopar as a rule. I know you can't on a 340.
I do think there is a lot more stroke on the 440 over the 426. Those were the days when you could play street hockey on the hood. A "Smart car" would not have been roadworthy back then.
Ever see a 500 CID Eldo Caddy smokin' the front tires? Uncool in a Caddy, but so darn cool to watch. 😀
-Chris
As a Camaro fan I can only appreciate a Yenko 427 Camaro. Anything else is well just not up to par.
Beat many a Hemi in my day so I never had any respect for a concept borrowed from aviation engines. Airplane engines pioneered the hemispherical combustion chamber not Chrysler.
Beat many a Hemi in my day so I never had any respect for a concept borrowed from aviation engines. Airplane engines pioneered the hemispherical combustion chamber not Chrysler.
I saw a '56 Chevy with a RR/Packard Merlin in it. The driver was essentially located in the back seat. Blown 1650 Hemi? 115/145 avgas helps too...
Now that we have gone totally OT, the reference I made to 440 and Hemi (in a different thread) were not to the same engine. I was attempting to relate the resale value of vintage Mac equipment to the resale value of vintage Hemi parts and cars, both far out of my price range, and climbing quickly.
As a point of reference Chrysler developed the big block wedge engine in the mid 50's and it hit the market in 1958 replacing the frist generation Hemis as the top Chrysler engine. Every few years (as with most engines) a larger displacement version would be introduced. In 1964 the biggest wedge engine was 426 cubic inches. In order to regain dominance in Nascar, a Hemi head was developed to fit on a modified wedge block. The famous 426 Hemi was introduced. All second generation Hemis produced were 426 cubic inches. In 1967 Chrysler introduced the 440 cubic inch wedge engine. It is a wedge design and 440 Hemis were never released by Chrysler, although aftermarket companies made (and still make) Hemis in many flavors. The 426 Hemi was discontinued after the 1971 model year. The 440 wedge was discontinued after the 1978 model year. The Hemi legend lived on and the engine powering most NHRA top fuel and NHRA funny cars are derivatives of the Chrysler Hemi regardless of the brand on the car body.
Recently Chrysler (Mercedes) has decided to capitalize on the Hemi legend two ways. The new Hemi engines are (as pointed out) semi hemi designs bearing some similarities to the original design. Chrysler has retooled to make the original 1964 426 Hemi engine, and you can buy a brand new 426 Hemi engine from Chrysler for about $13000. They are also selling 440 wedge engines, for about $5500.
The car I have is a 1973 Dodge Challenger. It came with the 318 cubic inch V8 engine. This was the most common engine option of the time. The car is worth about $25,000. Ripping out the 318 and installing a 440 that came out of a 1978 cop car actually improved the resale value of the car (even though a 440 was not even available in 1973) due to the relative scarcity of 440 engines. A 1970 or 1971 Challenger with an original Hemi engine is worth from $250,000 to $1,000,000! No one in their right mind would modify one of those cars due to the extreme collector value. This is the point I was trying to make about the escalating value of some old Macintosh gear.
True, and some of the first Hemi heads for the automotive market were designed by Zora Arkus-Duntov as bolt on replacements for the Ford flathead V8. As any Camaro (I had a 1968 convertible) fan would know, his famous memo officially launched the high performance automobile industry.
Hey, I relate my experiences in both fields here and on my web site. You are free to form your own opinions and accept or decline any advice on this or any other forum. If you read the "other" audio forum there are plenty of people telling you what to do, who have obviously never tried any of their own advice. For the most part here, what you see is what you get. If I explain something, I usually have pictures to prove that I have actually done it. Others do this also.
That seems to be the point.
And, yes there are several pictures of tire smoke on my web site, and a 426 can not usually be bored .070.
As a point of reference Chrysler developed the big block wedge engine in the mid 50's and it hit the market in 1958 replacing the frist generation Hemis as the top Chrysler engine. Every few years (as with most engines) a larger displacement version would be introduced. In 1964 the biggest wedge engine was 426 cubic inches. In order to regain dominance in Nascar, a Hemi head was developed to fit on a modified wedge block. The famous 426 Hemi was introduced. All second generation Hemis produced were 426 cubic inches. In 1967 Chrysler introduced the 440 cubic inch wedge engine. It is a wedge design and 440 Hemis were never released by Chrysler, although aftermarket companies made (and still make) Hemis in many flavors. The 426 Hemi was discontinued after the 1971 model year. The 440 wedge was discontinued after the 1978 model year. The Hemi legend lived on and the engine powering most NHRA top fuel and NHRA funny cars are derivatives of the Chrysler Hemi regardless of the brand on the car body.
Recently Chrysler (Mercedes) has decided to capitalize on the Hemi legend two ways. The new Hemi engines are (as pointed out) semi hemi designs bearing some similarities to the original design. Chrysler has retooled to make the original 1964 426 Hemi engine, and you can buy a brand new 426 Hemi engine from Chrysler for about $13000. They are also selling 440 wedge engines, for about $5500.
The car I have is a 1973 Dodge Challenger. It came with the 318 cubic inch V8 engine. This was the most common engine option of the time. The car is worth about $25,000. Ripping out the 318 and installing a 440 that came out of a 1978 cop car actually improved the resale value of the car (even though a 440 was not even available in 1973) due to the relative scarcity of 440 engines. A 1970 or 1971 Challenger with an original Hemi engine is worth from $250,000 to $1,000,000! No one in their right mind would modify one of those cars due to the extreme collector value. This is the point I was trying to make about the escalating value of some old Macintosh gear.
True, and some of the first Hemi heads for the automotive market were designed by Zora Arkus-Duntov as bolt on replacements for the Ford flathead V8. As any Camaro (I had a 1968 convertible) fan would know, his famous memo officially launched the high performance automobile industry.
Hey, I relate my experiences in both fields here and on my web site. You are free to form your own opinions and accept or decline any advice on this or any other forum. If you read the "other" audio forum there are plenty of people telling you what to do, who have obviously never tried any of their own advice. For the most part here, what you see is what you get. If I explain something, I usually have pictures to prove that I have actually done it. Others do this also.
That seems to be the point.
And, yes there are several pictures of tire smoke on my web site, and a 426 can not usually be bored .070.
tubelab.com said:
There's a special irony about motor heads ridiculed in highschool for cars with birds and wings retiring early. 🙂
My hat is off to you once again Mr. Tubelab for your brilliant recall of past automobile history. It is good to know that not only are you a tube head but a likeable motor head also.
Hi Joe,
Great trip into days past.
I have a special fondness for the throaty sound of a rat idling away. This would be a challenge to most audio systems (see - sort of back on topic) and especially tube models. Single ended fellas would be at wits end about now. Just as a single exhaust pipe told you the guy had nothin' under the hood.
I had a '70 Coronet 500 with a 318. It died just as I passed a Cutlass 442. I threw a rod out the side of the block. Lesson learned. Yeah, he passed me very soon after.
-Chris
Great trip into days past.
I have a special fondness for the throaty sound of a rat idling away. This would be a challenge to most audio systems (see - sort of back on topic) and especially tube models. Single ended fellas would be at wits end about now. Just as a single exhaust pipe told you the guy had nothin' under the hood.
I had a '70 Coronet 500 with a 318. It died just as I passed a Cutlass 442. I threw a rod out the side of the block. Lesson learned. Yeah, he passed me very soon after.
-Chris
Actually it was Chrysler who developed the hemi-head engine for their 16-cylinder aircraft engine in response to the Army's "hyper engine" program in the thirties.
http://www.enginehistory.org/Museums/Chrysler/XI-2220rf.jpg
I suppose if I were to mention that silver wire sounds different than copper wire I could preface my comment by stating that I own a device that can launch an egg 200 feet into the pep squad, so as to gain more respect.
John
SY,
I was rather surprised that I passed the one I did. It was obviuously not running right.
My next car was a '67 Cutlass with a 327 bored to 331. Not much that could beat that insane thing.
-Chris
I was rather surprised that I passed the one I did. It was obviuously not running right.
My next car was a '67 Cutlass with a 327 bored to 331. Not much that could beat that insane thing.
-Chris
Coincidently, mine was also a '67 with a 400/4bbl and a Slip'n'Slide.
I thought that the 330 was standard, not 327?
Might be time to split this thread...
I thought that the 330 was standard, not 327?
Might be time to split this thread...
Hi Stuart,
Yes, the original 330 was replaced. It was in perfect condition with about 40,000 mi on it. I think the other engine offered was a 425. These were both 90 ° big blocks.
The 327 small block was sent to Northren Performance and $4,000 later it was a 331, 12.5 : 1 compression ratio engine. Not easy to start. BHP was about 450 HP. I was 17 or 18 years old I think. Should have died in that thing.
I laugh when people brag about HP these days. That thing was scary!
It did lift the front wheels off the ground a few inches under acceleration. I did beat a tricked motobike and every car I ever came up against. Turbo 400 tranny.
Go ahead and split it. "Dumbest car I ever owned"?
-Chris 😉
Yes, the original 330 was replaced. It was in perfect condition with about 40,000 mi on it. I think the other engine offered was a 425. These were both 90 ° big blocks.
The 327 small block was sent to Northren Performance and $4,000 later it was a 331, 12.5 : 1 compression ratio engine. Not easy to start. BHP was about 450 HP. I was 17 or 18 years old I think. Should have died in that thing.
I laugh when people brag about HP these days. That thing was scary!
It did lift the front wheels off the ground a few inches under acceleration. I did beat a tricked motobike and every car I ever came up against. Turbo 400 tranny.
Go ahead and split it. "Dumbest car I ever owned"?
-Chris 😉
No need to split it unless thats what's supposed to happen, and as long as I get some good 5y3 info😀 I always wanted a 65 black on black 396 munci 4 speed Vette, my birth year. Sadly my first car at 17 was a crappy Valiant signet and then a even crapier Chevy Astra to be followed by work vans etc, not exactly babe magnets lol. Hey some nice older vehicals had radios with tubes didn't they?, now were on topic again😎 Dave🙂
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