Hi everybody,
First post...I did try looking at other posts but couldn't find an answer.
A friend has asked me to look into some solutions to his bar. Even though my experience extends to plugging a guitar into an amplifier, I said I would give it a go just to see what was possible.
The Concept: Multiple inputs (TV, Spotify, Microphone etc) into one "mixer" and distributed to 3 separate rooms each with it's own set of stereo speakers. Every channel being completely interchangeable. The rooms are not massive so large speaker cabs are not necessary.
I didn't think I could find a mixer that does this but the good folks at Thomann pointed me in the right direction to this.
DAP-Audio iMix 7.3
MANUAL
Looks like all I could ask for except, I'm a little confused as to what goes between the iMix and speakers.
Presumably I would need an amplifier per speaker set or could I just hook up the RCAs to the bare wire speakers? Does this sort of mixer amplify considering the small size of the rooms, is additional amplification needed?
Thanks for any help you can give.
First post...I did try looking at other posts but couldn't find an answer.
A friend has asked me to look into some solutions to his bar. Even though my experience extends to plugging a guitar into an amplifier, I said I would give it a go just to see what was possible.
The Concept: Multiple inputs (TV, Spotify, Microphone etc) into one "mixer" and distributed to 3 separate rooms each with it's own set of stereo speakers. Every channel being completely interchangeable. The rooms are not massive so large speaker cabs are not necessary.
I didn't think I could find a mixer that does this but the good folks at Thomann pointed me in the right direction to this.
DAP-Audio iMix 7.3
MANUAL
Looks like all I could ask for except, I'm a little confused as to what goes between the iMix and speakers.
Presumably I would need an amplifier per speaker set or could I just hook up the RCAs to the bare wire speakers? Does this sort of mixer amplify considering the small size of the rooms, is additional amplification needed?
Thanks for any help you can give.
Thanks Nigel,
I think because there will be 3 individual outputs from the mixer, I'll need to go for the amplifier in each room setup.
I've since found these contraptions, basically PA speakers with a built in amp which I think will be the cleanest solution. It's an old style pub and I'm not sure will he want a rack of amplifiers behind the bar.
Do you think that would work?
The system typically used in these applications is a zone controller/amplifier, it has matrix mixing capabilities.. any input to any output, and there are usually provisions to use remote hard wired volume controls which are often placed inside each room.
Thanks Conanski,
Yep, that's what the product I linked to allows for I think it has at least 7 inputs and 3 stereo outputs. I'm just not sure if I place passive speakers in each room will it be sufficient to wire straight to them or if I need to put an amp in between each set.
From what I can tell, I would need an amp for each set, so I've just decided on an active speaker set in each room. I think this may work though I'm not sure!!
Yes you need an amplifier for each zone and often these are mono for this type of application but you could do stereo too. Some of these controllers include amplifiers and some don't, you probably don't need a lot of power though for what is probably background music. There are multi channel power amplifiers made specifically for this type thing but multiple 2 ch versions would work as well.
Look at Cloud Electronics Home | Cloud Every pub hotel and club I have been to in the last few years have Cloud systems.
The professional/commercial version of the solution is a single amp driving multiple speakers grouped in zones. The speakers use the 70V distribution system, a constant-voltage system where individual speaker power is selected via a transformer tap at the speaker, and you can keep hanging speakers on the 70V distribution line util the total speaker powers all add up to that of the amp. So if you had a 30W amp, you could drive 15 speakers at 2 watts each, all happily wired together via their transformers.
The system also permits passive zone volume controls, also operating in the 70V system. It's usually just an autotransformer with a switch and a knob, thus matching the 70V system and still controlling zone volume passively.
The speakers are not a big problem, you can get speakers with the 70V transformers built in, or use 8 ohms speakers and external transformers, but the key is using the correct amplifier with a 70V output. The low cost end of that market is pretty much owned by Toa. Https://www.toaelectronics.com/products/amplifiers
You don't need much power at all for background music that you can still have a conversation over. Speakers tapped at anywhere from 1 to 4 watts is more than enough, given they aren't a long distance away from the listener. And that brings me to the key to doing these background systems right. Everybody uses far to few speakers. Remember that you lose volume quickly as distance increases, it's 6dB every time distance is doubled. But worse than that, a speaker has a 30 degree coverage "cone" of high quality sound. Think of a speaker like a ceiling can light. It produces a cone of energy, really a "spot".
The cone angle is mostly defined by the high frequency coverage, which always gets narrower as frequency goes up. So, for even overage without hot spots, you have to use lots of speakers. Toa has free software that shows how to lay out speakers to do this. But for a normal height ceiling, you need a speaker about every 8 feet on a grid to maximize coverage and quality. That's usually more than people want to buy, so compromise happens.
Bars always try to do their background systems with home hifi gear, and it never works out well. The commercial sound gear is not really much more expensive, often less, and is made for the purpose. Go that way.
The system also permits passive zone volume controls, also operating in the 70V system. It's usually just an autotransformer with a switch and a knob, thus matching the 70V system and still controlling zone volume passively.
The speakers are not a big problem, you can get speakers with the 70V transformers built in, or use 8 ohms speakers and external transformers, but the key is using the correct amplifier with a 70V output. The low cost end of that market is pretty much owned by Toa. Https://www.toaelectronics.com/products/amplifiers
You don't need much power at all for background music that you can still have a conversation over. Speakers tapped at anywhere from 1 to 4 watts is more than enough, given they aren't a long distance away from the listener. And that brings me to the key to doing these background systems right. Everybody uses far to few speakers. Remember that you lose volume quickly as distance increases, it's 6dB every time distance is doubled. But worse than that, a speaker has a 30 degree coverage "cone" of high quality sound. Think of a speaker like a ceiling can light. It produces a cone of energy, really a "spot".
The cone angle is mostly defined by the high frequency coverage, which always gets narrower as frequency goes up. So, for even overage without hot spots, you have to use lots of speakers. Toa has free software that shows how to lay out speakers to do this. But for a normal height ceiling, you need a speaker about every 8 feet on a grid to maximize coverage and quality. That's usually more than people want to buy, so compromise happens.
Bars always try to do their background systems with home hifi gear, and it never works out well. The commercial sound gear is not really much more expensive, often less, and is made for the purpose. Go that way.
BTW, stereo in this application is not only unnecessary, its undesirable. The reason is simple: most listeners will be much closer to a single speaker, and won't hear a stereo presentation anyway. Many stereo mixes are just horrible with only one channel audible. A mono mix of left and right is the way to win.