Hello to everyone out there, and i am sorry for so many posts.
I have a Question.
Would it be to any advantage to re-design my combo amp?? What i plan to do is make it a closed amp, plus upgrade the driver. It currently has an 8 inch driver with an unknown impedance (guessing 8?) So would it be to my advantage to make the box bigger, and make it closed?? i want to increase volume, so will doing this help?? I can not hear it well at a comfortable volume at 50 feet away, and i will be at an outdoor gigs.
Any other ideas how i can mod this
it is a crate G10XL.
I have a Question.
Would it be to any advantage to re-design my combo amp?? What i plan to do is make it a closed amp, plus upgrade the driver. It currently has an 8 inch driver with an unknown impedance (guessing 8?) So would it be to my advantage to make the box bigger, and make it closed?? i want to increase volume, so will doing this help?? I can not hear it well at a comfortable volume at 50 feet away, and i will be at an outdoor gigs.
Any other ideas how i can mod this
it is a crate G10XL.
Best idea is to build a separate cabinet fitted with a 12" and bypass your speaker. Read this:
Peak SPL Calculator
Peak SPL Calculator
a closed back isn"t going to make it louder and a bigger speaker won"t make it louder because it takes more power to drive a bigger speaker (of the same sensitivity and impedance) ......
if you want it louder try a more sensitive speaker , a 93db speaker would be twice as loud as a 90db speaker , and a 96db would be twice as loud as a 93db ......
I use a 101db speaker in one of my amps and it is loud enough to jam with a drummer when only on about 3 (100w amp) .......
Now a bigger speaker that was much more sensitive than your 8in would probably get you a louder and bigger sound ........
if you want it louder try a more sensitive speaker , a 93db speaker would be twice as loud as a 90db speaker , and a 96db would be twice as loud as a 93db ......
I use a 101db speaker in one of my amps and it is loud enough to jam with a drummer when only on about 3 (100w amp) .......
Now a bigger speaker that was much more sensitive than your 8in would probably get you a louder and bigger sound ........
yeah... what he said..... it's usually less expensive to find a better speaker than to get a bigger amp. the price difference between a 90db and a 93db speaker is fairly small, but the difference in price between a 100W amp and a 200W amp is usually rather large, but the result of a 3db increase in SPL is the same.... likewise you might pay maybe twice as much switching from an 85db speaker to a 95db speaker, but the price difference between a 100W amp and (if you can find one...) a 1000W amp is prohibitive, but either way you get a 10db increase in SPL (assuming of course the 1kW amp doesn't vaporize the voice coils on the 85db speakers first...)
A +3dB change requires double the power (to match), but a +10dB difference is perceived as twice as loud.
What makes you say you need more power to drive a bigger speaker?
Chris
By monkeys listening to sine waves on headphones, perhaps, but for over two hundred years four violins have sounded "twice as loud" as one violin to concert goers listening to real music in a hall.
Four violins:
each doubling of radiating area gives +3dB, and each double of input power gives +3dB.
The example you've given would have +12dB over a single violin. Which, it has to be said, isn't far off +10dB.
each doubling of radiating area gives +3dB, and each double of input power gives +3dB.
The example you've given would have +12dB over a single violin. Which, it has to be said, isn't far off +10dB.
Are you asking each musician to play twice as hard, or are you specifying two violinists per instrument?
Each violinist puts in the same amount of effort as the first violinist on his/her own.
So there's 4x the acoustic energy from the sum of people operating the instruments, and another 4x from the extra radiating area of the violin bodies, strings, etc.
A 16x increase in acoustic energy gives +12dB.
So there's 4x the acoustic energy from the sum of people operating the instruments, and another 4x from the extra radiating area of the violin bodies, strings, etc.
A 16x increase in acoustic energy gives +12dB.
Then, let's assume three of the violinists don't play at all. You now have the same "acoustic input" but still have 4 times the "radiating area"....
How about this? Why don't you provide a cite for this ridiculous internet meme you're so willing to stretch credibility to defend? So far, in the ten years I've been fighting this foolishness, not once has anyone done so.
(and for those of you using readers or bable fish, that's "citation" not "website" - i.e., a reference to the original research paper.)
If three violinists don't play, then there's only a quarter of the available area being excited, and a quarter of the input. Down to one active violinist again.
Let's break this down into speaker terms.
For every doubling of input power, you gain 3dB.
For every double in cone area, you gain 3dB. (still at 1w system input - voltage will vary to achieve 1 watt input into a different impedance from series or parallel connections).
So, you go from one loudspeaker, with one watt input, to 4 louspeakers, each receiving 1 watt.
You now have 4 watts total, and 4x the cone area. Now, let's apply the simple, well-known rules I mentioned above. Two doubles in total power input, gives +6dB. Two doubles in cone area, gives another +6dB.
+6dB+6dB surely equals +12dB, which, as I mentioned earlier, is approximately +10dB, perceived as double the volume, which in turn is what you said about 4 violinists vs 1 violinist.
Prove me wrong: you seem to have gone against your original reasoning. If you can prove me wrong, I'm happy to accept that: we're all here to learn.
Chris
Late edit: scroll down a little, to where it says "Here are a couple of very useful dB facts that are worth remembering ..."
http://sound.westhost.com/articles/fadb.htm#s20
Let's break this down into speaker terms.
For every doubling of input power, you gain 3dB.
For every double in cone area, you gain 3dB. (still at 1w system input - voltage will vary to achieve 1 watt input into a different impedance from series or parallel connections).
So, you go from one loudspeaker, with one watt input, to 4 louspeakers, each receiving 1 watt.
You now have 4 watts total, and 4x the cone area. Now, let's apply the simple, well-known rules I mentioned above. Two doubles in total power input, gives +6dB. Two doubles in cone area, gives another +6dB.
+6dB+6dB surely equals +12dB, which, as I mentioned earlier, is approximately +10dB, perceived as double the volume, which in turn is what you said about 4 violinists vs 1 violinist.
Prove me wrong: you seem to have gone against your original reasoning. If you can prove me wrong, I'm happy to accept that: we're all here to learn.
Chris
Late edit: scroll down a little, to where it says "Here are a couple of very useful dB facts that are worth remembering ..."
http://sound.westhost.com/articles/fadb.htm#s20
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Darn, I'm very fond of Rod's pages. I didn't realise he was contributing to this.
Check this out:
Decibel Notes
Perhaps the people conducting this mythical test were reading VU meters rather than measuring the SPL in the room. If so, then what they really meant was +5dB, not +10dB, which as you would put it, is approximately +6dB. 😉
Incidentally, I have done hearing tests with sine waves, and yes, about a 10dB increase is required in the midband for it to sound twice as loud. I also have friends that spend a lot of time in recording studios, and they can all pretty much judge a +3dB increase on the meters from listening to speakers. "Twice as loud" is a learned phenomenon, which is why I mentioned "monkeys" and specified "concert goers" in my first response. Most times this comes up, we're not talking about random people in a bus station, we're talking about audiophiles or musicians who have a more refined (experienced) sense of increases in loudness, and music, not sine waves.
So, while you could design a test to "prove" the +10dB rule, the conductor's rule of thumb that's worked for so many years is more applicable to discussion of guitar amplifiers in the average venue (or bedroom). If you're playing outside, then by all means, pile them high and wide and hope the wind's blowing in the right direction! 😉
While this fascinating theoretical debate rages on, let me give a practical real world answer to the OP's question.
You have an inexpensive "30 watt" solid state amp with a small open back cab and one 10" speaker. Depending on the music you play, it is unlikely to be able to let you be heard at any significant volume in an outdoor venue alone, despite a larger cab and more efficient speaker. If you are playing with other people, and there will be a PA involved (hopefully), then you're not out of luck - you'll either put a microphone in front of the speaker or use the line out jack on the front to run to the PA system to allow the crowd to hear you. If you're supposed to be a "rhythm" instrument in a small jazz combo, what you have might be enough by itself, but if you're playing rock or louder stuff it won't be. If you're depending on just the amp and play "loud music" you'll need to borrow or rent something bigger for outdoors if the amp is doing the whole job. Indoors is a bit different, as you have some acoustic reinforcement from the walls to make the amp sound a bit louder - what you have might be almost enough for a gig in a small club.
The points made by the others about a more efficient speaker being a significant upgrade is correct, but as I said above, is unlikely to be enough for an outdoor gig. If you wanted to try the upgrade, I'd check into an Eminence "Ragin Cajun" speaker - its an affordable and very efficient 10" guitar speaker.
You have an inexpensive "30 watt" solid state amp with a small open back cab and one 10" speaker. Depending on the music you play, it is unlikely to be able to let you be heard at any significant volume in an outdoor venue alone, despite a larger cab and more efficient speaker. If you are playing with other people, and there will be a PA involved (hopefully), then you're not out of luck - you'll either put a microphone in front of the speaker or use the line out jack on the front to run to the PA system to allow the crowd to hear you. If you're supposed to be a "rhythm" instrument in a small jazz combo, what you have might be enough by itself, but if you're playing rock or louder stuff it won't be. If you're depending on just the amp and play "loud music" you'll need to borrow or rent something bigger for outdoors if the amp is doing the whole job. Indoors is a bit different, as you have some acoustic reinforcement from the walls to make the amp sound a bit louder - what you have might be almost enough for a gig in a small club.
The points made by the others about a more efficient speaker being a significant upgrade is correct, but as I said above, is unlikely to be enough for an outdoor gig. If you wanted to try the upgrade, I'd check into an Eminence "Ragin Cajun" speaker - its an affordable and very efficient 10" guitar speaker.
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