Hello everyone, I´m from Cologne in Germany and new to this board. I have a Clarion 3-way-system incl. crossover network called SE6372 that was not in use for several years, but in former times it performed pretty good in different cars.
I´d like to have it in some sort of enclosure to use it in my motorhome or maybe at home.
TSP not available but they still have a comparable set called SRP1321S, even woofer size is the same - maybe parameters fit: Fs 75, Qts 1, Vas 4.8 liter. They claim freq. range from 40 Hz which is basically pretty good for music, but Fs is tough. So the ML-TL with a 3-way-setup came to my mind. Size is not relevant apart from width of 7" due to the 5.25" woofer size (framed).
Any suggestions more than welcome🙂
I´d like to have it in some sort of enclosure to use it in my motorhome or maybe at home.
TSP not available but they still have a comparable set called SRP1321S, even woofer size is the same - maybe parameters fit: Fs 75, Qts 1, Vas 4.8 liter. They claim freq. range from 40 Hz which is basically pretty good for music, but Fs is tough. So the ML-TL with a 3-way-setup came to my mind. Size is not relevant apart from width of 7" due to the 5.25" woofer size (framed).
Any suggestions more than welcome🙂
Hi and welcome.
Sorry to burst your bubble but transmission lines require low qts drivers. There is also no way of getting to 40 Hz if the fs is 75 Hz. I would consider that 40 Hz spec bunk. I'd look into doing an open baffle or a lossy box with a big cap to smooth out the underdamped response.
Roger
Sorry to burst your bubble but transmission lines require low qts drivers. There is also no way of getting to 40 Hz if the fs is 75 Hz. I would consider that 40 Hz spec bunk. I'd look into doing an open baffle or a lossy box with a big cap to smooth out the underdamped response.
Roger
Hi Roger, in my opinion the ML-TL is something hybrid between TL and bass reflex, with Fb freq. tuned far below Fs (which you can´t obtain from classic TL enclosures).
This horn construction for example has Fs 105 and Fb down to 50, though Qts is 1,15😱
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/50153-beyma-8ag-n-horn-viech.html
So it looks one can do something with this set of speakers, best kind of enclosure yet to find. Not much experience from my side, but maybe someone else has suggestions. I´m open for every kind of weird construction😀
This horn construction for example has Fs 105 and Fb down to 50, though Qts is 1,15😱
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/50153-beyma-8ag-n-horn-viech.html
So it looks one can do something with this set of speakers, best kind of enclosure yet to find. Not much experience from my side, but maybe someone else has suggestions. I´m open for every kind of weird construction😀
srp1321 is 5"
have your 3way 5" woofer??
or put in any box with ~car door volume and enjoy listening...😉
or copy http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/50153-beyma-8ag-n-horn-viech.html , or make it 20cm instead 25.......
have your 3way 5" woofer??
let measure..
or put in any box with ~car door volume and enjoy listening...😉
or copy http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/50153-beyma-8ag-n-horn-viech.html , or make it 20cm instead 25.......
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Absolutely incorrect!
A low-Qts driver often is far more difficult to get to work at all well in a TL and the opposite "fact" you stated is one of many TL myths. I don't know how well the OP's driver wants to reuse will work in a TL, however, especially with not having reliable TS values to use. I've modeled 100's of TLs, building at least 8 for my personal use, while many others have built ones I modeled for them. From my experience, the best overall responses came from drivers having a Qts above 0.3, and definitely closer to 0.4 or higher (but maybe not much above 0.5).
Paul
A low-Qts driver often is far more difficult to get to work at all well in a TL and the opposite "fact" you stated is one of many TL myths. I don't know how well the OP's driver wants to reuse will work in a TL, however, especially with not having reliable TS values to use. I've modeled 100's of TLs, building at least 8 for my personal use, while many others have built ones I modeled for them. From my experience, the best overall responses came from drivers having a Qts above 0.3, and definitely closer to 0.4 or higher (but maybe not much above 0.5).
Paul
And this is basically why I was asking for ML-TL. Or TQWT, or horn. Though broad freq drivers are used most of the time, why not a woofer that isn´t any better from Fs with a high Qts that could be tuned to a deeper Fb?
Considerung the TSP from the later Clarion system (which I don´t expect to be much different from what I have), maybe someone could suggest a basic cabinet
Considerung the TSP from the later Clarion system (which I don´t expect to be much different from what I have), maybe someone could suggest a basic cabinet
Yeah, I will concede I was ambiguous and perhaps oversimplifying, but Paul from your last sentence one could argue you are perpetuating the TL myth. 😉
But we agree a driver with QTS of 1.00 is probably too high.
Roger
Thanks for the link. That horn may be tuned to 50 Hz but note it is down 20 dB at 50 Hz. If you are just looking for something unique (weird) there isn't any reason you can't just empirically test enclosures for your Clarions. Before all this software readily available speaker building was a much more empirical process. The downside is that it is much harder to guarantee the results.
Roger
oh mein gott! 5" wooofer! 🙂
make ~30 l box. tune it 40hz. play with filling.(black & blue curves)
if box will be high and narrow with port at the bottom - it will be ml-tl 🙂
In any case, it will work somehow
.
make ~30 l box. tune it 40hz. play with filling.(black & blue curves)
if box will be high and narrow with port at the bottom - it will be ml-tl 🙂
In any case, it will work somehow
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While I agree a driver with a Qts of 1.0 is likely too high, I'd have to model a TL for one just to be sure. Other than likely requiring a really large box, the high Q of the driver would exaggerate the bass unacceptably, just like any system having a high Q.
What TL myth are you referring to? I'm not perpetuating any myths by my statement because it's based on hands-on experience from many, many hours modeling TLs for many, many drivers having a large range of Qts, building TLs and having others (including one commercial speaker system manufacturer) build TLs I've designed for them. Simply facts--no guess work, no assumptions, no snake oil, no smoke and mirrors and no myths.
Paul
What TL myth are you referring to? I'm not perpetuating any myths by my statement because it's based on hands-on experience from many, many hours modeling TLs for many, many drivers having a large range of Qts, building TLs and having others (including one commercial speaker system manufacturer) build TLs I've designed for them. Simply facts--no guess work, no assumptions, no snake oil, no smoke and mirrors and no myths.
Paul
And thank you for the very useful anybox scheme. Did you join the thread just to make comments or have you ever seen or heard one of the systems I´m talking about? These are usually built with a 4"-5" broadband driver at high Qts around 1, sometimes above, and Fs up to 80 Hz, tuned down to Fb 50 Hz or even below and *really* effective. If you can read german - have a look.
www.hornlautsprecher.de - solutions in sound
🙄
Hmm, apparently my understanding of TLs (as in non-tapered pipe) is somewhat different since the goal at least originally was to flatten the driver's impedance peak and since Fs/Qts governs the tuning, a Qts = 1 is the ideal for the flattest response. From this we see that to tune it lower requires a Qts > 1 and since it dominates speaker cab net Vb regardless of type, they tend to be big for what you get performance wise, though IME it's worth it.
WRT loading high Qts drivers with a MLTL or TWQT, it can work well, but the driver typically needs a LOT of power handling capability if not corner loaded since it will be tuned well below Fs, around 31-32 Hz for the mentioned driver. IOW, probably not a viable alignment for such a small driver even if corner loaded.
Only one way to know for sure though.........
GM
WRT loading high Qts drivers with a MLTL or TWQT, it can work well, but the driver typically needs a LOT of power handling capability if not corner loaded since it will be tuned well below Fs, around 31-32 Hz for the mentioned driver. IOW, probably not a viable alignment for such a small driver even if corner loaded.
Only one way to know for sure though.........
GM
I stand corrected.
So with a qts of 1.00 F3/Fs drops to ~ 0.5 placing the acoustic impedance peak below Fs instead of above Fs is typically seen with TLs. As qts increases above 1.00 F3/Fs continues to drop. The downside is Vb increases linearly with Vas and as a square of qts which is why don't see too many. I'm guessing the line and damping control resonance at Fs.
Roger
Paul,
The intended meaning of my last post to you was not to imply in any way shape or form that you are any sort of charlatan. To the contrary, I'm quite pleased that your opinions are based on your hands on experience and modeling experience. I won't elaborate on what my intended meaning was because I can't see how it would be productive. I will say that I sincerely apologize it was construed the way it was.
Regards,
Roger
Okay, Roger, and my apologies to you for not understanding your intended meaning.
Paul
Paul
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