I don't know how many have been bit by the latest Win 10 update (1803). All my systems updated fine BUT some things just don't work any more. In the RTX case Windows trashed the Thesycon driver an installed its own. That removed the ASIO support and the Windows driver did not work with my RTX. Fortunately a reinstall fixed those issues and a quick loopback test with the latest RMAA gives "excellent" results.
My QA401 has not fared as well. The audio just gets lost. Not sure what else is messed up. Fortunately I have a working XP install to fall back on.
My QA401 has not fared as well. The audio just gets lost. Not sure what else is messed up. Fortunately I have a working XP install to fall back on.
It's too bad that Microsoft is allowed to release buggy software on the world time and time again.
Because of the way Microsoft carries on it's business, I have to run WIN98, XP and occasionally, DOS. It's just too bad.
-Chris
Because of the way Microsoft carries on it's business, I have to run WIN98, XP and occasionally, DOS. It's just too bad.
-Chris
Hi David,
Well, "secure" with back doors might be a better description. But you're right, Microsoft software is rarely production ready when it ships, same for the update packages.
-Chris
Well, "secure" with back doors might be a better description. But you're right, Microsoft software is rarely production ready when it ships, same for the update packages.
-Chris
Yeah, for a work system, where you cannot risk it getting pushed the large feature updates like 1803 (which are basically OS reinstallations) you should run Enterprise LTSB. It only gets security patches.
Funny, my experience has been completely different. I had a very small number of problems with W7 which I ran until two years ago and none with W10 including the 1803 update that deployed to both of my machines last week. I do have very recent hardware which was designed with W10 in mind and that probably helps.
I was a big fan of Ubuntu Linux, but I have to say that I think Microsoft while not infallible does a pretty good job with updates and OS updates. They did a good enough job with W7 that they won me back. They actually do test the updates and patches prior to deployment, but with billions of computers of all sorts scattered across the planet it is impossible to assure that things will work as expected in all cases. This is a different and more challenging environment to address than Apple which operates in an environment where they control the hardware. (I have heard a lot of stories about WIN8 and 8.1 but have had almost no exposure to either.)
For mission critical stuff I think Chris' suggestion running an enterprise version and managing updates internally is clearly the way to go.
I was a big fan of Ubuntu Linux, but I have to say that I think Microsoft while not infallible does a pretty good job with updates and OS updates. They did a good enough job with W7 that they won me back. They actually do test the updates and patches prior to deployment, but with billions of computers of all sorts scattered across the planet it is impossible to assure that things will work as expected in all cases. This is a different and more challenging environment to address than Apple which operates in an environment where they control the hardware. (I have heard a lot of stories about WIN8 and 8.1 but have had almost no exposure to either.)
For mission critical stuff I think Chris' suggestion running an enterprise version and managing updates internally is clearly the way to go.
Hi Kevin,
Well, you could as easily manage your own installation and only upgrade after it is stable, or there are fixes for applications that fail after an update. That's why I'm sticking to Win7 Pro. I've had too many applications broken by updates from Microsloppy.
I can't forgive this later one as it overwrites drivers that were not Microsoft drivers. They were either lazy as far as the automated installation was concerned, or stupid. They aren't stupid, so ... If they overwrote their own drivers (that they tested), that would have been fine, but they messed with your registry by substituting their driver for 3rd party drivers. It doesn't take a very smart person to figure out that if there is another driver installed, it's probably because the system needs it to run. Replacing drivers is a sure-fire way to break applications that are normally running on the machine. Right here with this issue I think M$ should be liable for the damage caused.
You wouldn't allow a phone person to come into your company and do a bunch of updates whenever they decided to, then troubleshoot your own now non-working system, would you? I also expect that that phone company would be liable for the damage they caused. I'm just waiting for microsoft to "break" phone system servers now. It used to be only voice mail ran on an external computer, so if voice mail when down it was a problem, but the world didn't end. When an entire phone system goes down, it is the end of the world for most businesses.
Looking at my Avaya updates (I was a commercial phone tech and still get the feed), most of the problems are Microsoft related. I'm super happy I don't have to deal with those problems.
Just my view on the subject. The situation with machine controllers is worse and more scary.
-Chris
Well, you could as easily manage your own installation and only upgrade after it is stable, or there are fixes for applications that fail after an update. That's why I'm sticking to Win7 Pro. I've had too many applications broken by updates from Microsloppy.
I can't forgive this later one as it overwrites drivers that were not Microsoft drivers. They were either lazy as far as the automated installation was concerned, or stupid. They aren't stupid, so ... If they overwrote their own drivers (that they tested), that would have been fine, but they messed with your registry by substituting their driver for 3rd party drivers. It doesn't take a very smart person to figure out that if there is another driver installed, it's probably because the system needs it to run. Replacing drivers is a sure-fire way to break applications that are normally running on the machine. Right here with this issue I think M$ should be liable for the damage caused.
You wouldn't allow a phone person to come into your company and do a bunch of updates whenever they decided to, then troubleshoot your own now non-working system, would you? I also expect that that phone company would be liable for the damage they caused. I'm just waiting for microsoft to "break" phone system servers now. It used to be only voice mail ran on an external computer, so if voice mail when down it was a problem, but the world didn't end. When an entire phone system goes down, it is the end of the world for most businesses.
Looking at my Avaya updates (I was a commercial phone tech and still get the feed), most of the problems are Microsoft related. I'm super happy I don't have to deal with those problems.
Just my view on the subject. The situation with machine controllers is worse and more scary.
-Chris
This reminded of what a neighbour said to me. Her bank had her install secure software. She said nothing worked after that. I said yes but it was secure wasn't it.
Chris the issue is with their driver signing policy. Microsoft wants all driver to be signed by them through their very expensive service. They are kicking out any drivers that don't comply. EMU is one of them. The enterprise stuff is even worse because there is zero tolerance for unsigned and non conforming driver signing.
W7 doesn't suffer from this.
W7 doesn't suffer from this.
Hi David,
-Chris
Which is the reason I'm using it.
See? Now there is the problem. Whose machine is it anyway? Not theirs, and they shouldn't have the right to modify aspects of your hardware or software. Under these circumstances, they should be taken to court to answer for all the downtime and lost productivity they cause. Computers run equipment and they are knowingly affecting that very stuff. I've never heard of a more irresponsible attitude in my life, or short sighted for that matter. I sure hope no one is injured or killed because of a malfunctioning computer that they caused through an update. Of course, they do not authorise their software for use in applications were it's failure can cause injury or death.
-Chris
It's not really kicking them out, per-se. The major feature updates basically work as re-installation of the OS. I could be wrong, but my impression is that when Windows detects hardware it checks Windows Update for newer drivers based on the VID and PID of that device and installs a driver if one is in the database.
I don't have all the details in this case, but I would probably say that if your device is not compatible with the driver that will get delivered using a specific USB or PCI VID/PID, you should pick your own VID and PID. I could be wrong here but I don't see how Windows would install a driver for a device that it couldn't find a match for VID and PID on.
They are restrictive on the drivers these days but there are good reasons. Drivers are real security and stability issues in Windows and Linux because they have kernel mode access.
I don't have all the details in this case, but I would probably say that if your device is not compatible with the driver that will get delivered using a specific USB or PCI VID/PID, you should pick your own VID and PID. I could be wrong here but I don't see how Windows would install a driver for a device that it couldn't find a match for VID and PID on.
They are restrictive on the drivers these days but there are good reasons. Drivers are real security and stability issues in Windows and Linux because they have kernel mode access.
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I noticed that Windows dumped the Thesycon drivers for its native driver (which doesn't seem to work) since it thinks the RTX is USB UAC 2 compliant. Why it doesn't work right i don't know. But the dedicated drivers work better. And without the driver no ASIO. I have run into this stuff before on even mice.
Also windows security is locking things down. I have not been able to remove the password requirement from my shop machines. All the tricks just get ignored. And it won't let me use a simple password.
Also windows security is locking things down. I have not been able to remove the password requirement from my shop machines. All the tricks just get ignored. And it won't let me use a simple password.
Not sure about the update process, but when you install Windows or it runs through that out-of-box-experience screen you can choose the option that says something like "I'm on a Domain" or whatever it's called, even if you're not. This lets you continue using local accounts. I installed 1803 Enterprise on Sunday on a PC and I can log in without a password or a Microsoft account. It may be different on Pro though and I'm not sure how to convert back to local accounts once the system is already set up, but it should be possible.
Well, I ask the same question. Whose machine is it?
I think they (Microsoft) have gone out of control. When they make security decisions for you, that's an example of the tail wagging the dog. I'll have to use some form of Windows, but my production machines will have to remain under my control.
-Chris
I think they (Microsoft) have gone out of control. When they make security decisions for you, that's an example of the tail wagging the dog. I'll have to use some form of Windows, but my production machines will have to remain under my control.
-Chris
One cannot choose there own VID and PID. The VID and PID are hard coded into the firmware of the USB device. The VID is the vendor identification and the PID is the product identification. These do not change.
Microsoft looks at what's in the driver store and if the date is older than what they have in there driver database the driver gets replaced.
For enterprise Windows has made it very clear that unless the driver is signed by Microsoft it gets disabled. Over time this policy will be forced on WIn10 pro and home as well. This has been going on since win8.
Microsoft looks at what's in the driver store and if the date is older than what they have in there driver database the driver gets replaced.
For enterprise Windows has made it very clear that unless the driver is signed by Microsoft it gets disabled. Over time this policy will be forced on WIn10 pro and home as well. This has been going on since win8.
Arent we getting a bit OT?
Maybe a moderator (anatech?) could move this windows discussion to a different thread.
Maybe a moderator (anatech?) could move this windows discussion to a different thread.
Yeah I meant the manufacturer should not be picking a generic VID and PID for their device. For example, if using CMedia or XMOS interfaces and your device requires drivers other than the generic one MS will push to you, you (manufacturer) should change your IDs.
Demian's problem may be that the XMOS IC shows up as a UAC2 device so Microsoft prefers their own driver over an alternate. Unfortunate that Microsoft didn't support UAC2 from the start, and then this would be a bit less confusing.
Hi Chris,
In that case Microsoft should complain, but they should not be allowed to alter the drivers in an operating system. Besides, they knew for certain that doing this would break many systems, but they went ahead anyway.
Again I have to ask, whose system is it anyway?
-Chris
In that case Microsoft should complain, but they should not be allowed to alter the drivers in an operating system. Besides, they knew for certain that doing this would break many systems, but they went ahead anyway.
Again I have to ask, whose system is it anyway?
-Chris
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