Do someone have de Xover drawings and values and the cabinet measure of the MDY-4 kit from Madisound speaker components? I have the dynaudio 17W75ext midwoofers and I want to make with the esotar T330D tweeter a nice small speaker. I believe the 17w75 ext was also used in the Duntech PCL-15 if you have more information about this speaker, Xover and housing, it also would be helpfull.
Thanks!😕
Thanks!😕
daytona,
sorry for not having any plans or a schematic for said kit. Have you
seen the Foccus project at the bottom of this page:
Dynaudio archive
Original Dynaudio boxes used to have in cheaper series like Audience
a single coil for the woofer and 2nd order electrical for the tweeter
with a padding resistor. For a 4 ohm driver an inductor of around 1,0 mH
and 1,8 mH or a bit higher for an 8 ohm version. Your bassmid, according
to factory data, is made for a closed box of 15 litre or so. Try simulating.
Some manufacturers were using Esotar tweeters in their premium models with
just a simple filter thinking less would be more. Anyway, a good practice is
to cross it around 2 kHz and with a filter steep enough to protect the tweeter.
sorry for not having any plans or a schematic for said kit. Have you
seen the Foccus project at the bottom of this page:
Dynaudio archive
Original Dynaudio boxes used to have in cheaper series like Audience
a single coil for the woofer and 2nd order electrical for the tweeter
with a padding resistor. For a 4 ohm driver an inductor of around 1,0 mH
and 1,8 mH or a bit higher for an 8 ohm version. Your bassmid, according
to factory data, is made for a closed box of 15 litre or so. Try simulating.
Some manufacturers were using Esotar tweeters in their premium models with
just a simple filter thinking less would be more. Anyway, a good practice is
to cross it around 2 kHz and with a filter steep enough to protect the tweeter.
The problem with the Foccus is that it is a 4 ohm system and a bassreflex system. Both things I do not like. I want to have a 8 ohm system wich works better with my pushpull 2A3 tubeamplifiers. And also a bassreflexsytem is not so nice for a low-dampening tubeamplifier. I have made a closed housing of 13 litres with an air-inductor of 1.2 mH for the 17W75 ext and a capicitor of 4.7 microfarad in serie with the esotar tweeter. I have put away the impedancecorrection on the midwoofer (the esotar also) and in my opinion it sounds better. The problem is that the sound in the low end is boomy. I think that maybe I can can solve that by putting in a variovent in the back of the speakerhousing. That MDY-4 system has also a variovent that is why I want to examen that Xover. I do not use a allpasss network because I use a alu ring of 2 cm thick wich move the midwoofer 2 cm in front of the baflle. It has angled sides so I think there is no problem of diffraction.
The solution to your problem of boominess is to lower the
Qtc of the driver by stuffing the box. Your tube amp might
benefit from flattening the system impedance of the speaker.
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Hello Lojzek,
I have already stuffed the housing with lots of sheephair and BAF so that is not the problem anymore but I think that you are right about the QTC and that you can lower it by using a variovent! I shall make again a impedancecorrection for the 17W75 ext. This is 20 microfarad and a resistor of 6.8 ohm. I am not sure what impedancecorrection I must use for the Esotar tweeter and if it is nessecary.
Can someone tell me what is the cross frequenz for a 1.2 mH conductor in a 6 ohm system and what is that for 4.7 microfarad cap in a 6 ohm system? This 6 ohm is what I get +/- with impedancecorrection
I have already stuffed the housing with lots of sheephair and BAF so that is not the problem anymore but I think that you are right about the QTC and that you can lower it by using a variovent! I shall make again a impedancecorrection for the 17W75 ext. This is 20 microfarad and a resistor of 6.8 ohm. I am not sure what impedancecorrection I must use for the Esotar tweeter and if it is nessecary.
Can someone tell me what is the cross frequenz for a 1.2 mH conductor in a 6 ohm system and what is that for 4.7 microfarad cap in a 6 ohm system? This 6 ohm is what I get +/- with impedancecorrection
Try measuring impedance if you can and then calculate the Qtc
so you know where you stand.
By flattening impedance I meant making series RC and RLC
networks placed in parallel with amp out, not in parallel with the
drivers ( changing responses).
Frequenz sagst du ? 🙂
I have done a very similar system though the tweeter was a D28-AF. Turned out really nice so much so that I made three copies of it for friends. I will chase down my crossover for the system and send to you.
Hello Colofan,
That would be nice, because if the system isn't what I want it to be I have also 2 D28AF tweeters with a special ring so that it covers the bigger hole of the esotar tweeter and I can use it to have the basic to use with the esotartweeter. Did you also use variovents? I read pretty nice things with a variovent for speakers with a huge QTC in a closed housing. I can give them to my son for his audio education what is a important thing for a father to his son (only with the D28AF)!🙂🙂🙂
That would be nice, because if the system isn't what I want it to be I have also 2 D28AF tweeters with a special ring so that it covers the bigger hole of the esotar tweeter and I can use it to have the basic to use with the esotartweeter. Did you also use variovents? I read pretty nice things with a variovent for speakers with a huge QTC in a closed housing. I can give them to my son for his audio education what is a important thing for a father to his son (only with the D28AF)!🙂🙂🙂
I discover that there was alo a speakersystem of dynaudio called concert with the 17W75 ext and the D28fd and a variovent. If someone has information about the size of the housing and the filter it is also very helpfull. The system that I want to built is something like this!!!
Hello daytona05
I have a copy of the Madisound MDY-4 crossover diagram, as well as two MDY-4 cabinets. Please let me know if you'd like me to send you either the diagram of the crossover or the measurements of the cabinets (which do use one Variovent per cabinet).
I have a copy of the Madisound MDY-4 crossover diagram, as well as two MDY-4 cabinets. Please let me know if you'd like me to send you either the diagram of the crossover or the measurements of the cabinets (which do use one Variovent per cabinet).
That would be very helpfull for me. So if you want to do that for me, I can use that as a starting point with the the esotar tweeter. How was the sound of that system in your opinion?
Ciao from Holland
Ciao from Holland
Madisound MDY-4 Information
The basic exterior dimensions of the cabinet are 9" wide and 12" deep at the base, and 9" wide and 8.5" deep at the top. Panel thickness is 3/4" throughout. The Variovent sits behind the tweeter, centered on the back panel about 4.25" from the top.
I've attached the crossover diagram for the MDY-4. I purchased the speakers as a kit from Madisound about 20 years ago! I sent them an email recently for a copy of the MDY-4 crossover for my own use and they were happy to send it to me. If you should have an questions that I can't answer, you can contact Madisound and they are very accommodating.
I've also attached some photos of my MDY-4 cabinets. I removed the tweeter and the 17W75XL woofer from the cabinet to build a floor-standing MTM of Dynaudio design (I believe it's called the TWYNN). It utilizes two different-sized cavities for the upper and lower woofer, so the XL went into the lower, larger cavity.
The reason I tell you this long story is that you'd asked about how I liked Dynaudio. The only thing I'm not crazy about is the Variovent. I've never been been able to achieve the bass response I want (tight, but not too tight that the speaker cannot reproduce lower bass or kick drum notes). Were I to do it again with my own enclosure design I would chose either ported or sealed as both are easier to tune!
In regards to the drivers, I can't say enough. I've driven the 17W75XL right to its xmax and I thought the driver would break from the enclosure, but it never broke a sweat. The tweeter is lovely. Detailed, smooth, a joy to listen to over long periods. I've own metal dome tweeters before but I'd never go back.
My wife's family was originally from The Hague and everyone I've spoken to from The Netherlands spoke better English than I did, so I've written the text above with that assumption. If something is not clear, it's probably by English, so please write back so I can correct.
I hope this is all helpful to you.
Art
The basic exterior dimensions of the cabinet are 9" wide and 12" deep at the base, and 9" wide and 8.5" deep at the top. Panel thickness is 3/4" throughout. The Variovent sits behind the tweeter, centered on the back panel about 4.25" from the top.
I've attached the crossover diagram for the MDY-4. I purchased the speakers as a kit from Madisound about 20 years ago! I sent them an email recently for a copy of the MDY-4 crossover for my own use and they were happy to send it to me. If you should have an questions that I can't answer, you can contact Madisound and they are very accommodating.
I've also attached some photos of my MDY-4 cabinets. I removed the tweeter and the 17W75XL woofer from the cabinet to build a floor-standing MTM of Dynaudio design (I believe it's called the TWYNN). It utilizes two different-sized cavities for the upper and lower woofer, so the XL went into the lower, larger cavity.
The reason I tell you this long story is that you'd asked about how I liked Dynaudio. The only thing I'm not crazy about is the Variovent. I've never been been able to achieve the bass response I want (tight, but not too tight that the speaker cannot reproduce lower bass or kick drum notes). Were I to do it again with my own enclosure design I would chose either ported or sealed as both are easier to tune!
In regards to the drivers, I can't say enough. I've driven the 17W75XL right to its xmax and I thought the driver would break from the enclosure, but it never broke a sweat. The tweeter is lovely. Detailed, smooth, a joy to listen to over long periods. I've own metal dome tweeters before but I'd never go back.
My wife's family was originally from The Hague and everyone I've spoken to from The Netherlands spoke better English than I did, so I've written the text above with that assumption. If something is not clear, it's probably by English, so please write back so I can correct.
I hope this is all helpful to you.
Art
Attachments
Hello Art,
First of all thank you for sharing this information. I have still a few questions and remarks. In the information about the cabinet misses the total height of the cabinet. And I assume that the measerments are taken from the outside of the cabinet?
What is also strange, is that you talk about de 17W75XL instead of the 17W75ext. The 17W75XL is especially designed for an open cabinetsystem like a bassreflextype. The 17W75ext is designed for a closed ( or variovent) cabinetsystem. I hope that it is a slip of the pen otherwise it is normal that you had problems with the bass sound if there is really the use with a 17W75XL in a closed cabinet with or without the use with a variovent.
After examing the MDY-4 filter I notice that they use an 3 order 18dB filter for the tweeter and a 1 order 6dB filter for the basmid speaker. Dynaudio uses most of the time 1 order 6dB filtering in their filters. I think it makes the work for the tweeter much more easier and maybe better sounding with an18dB filer . So I will give this a try. Madisound has also used impedancecorrection what could be very helpfull for mine tubeamplifiers to perform well.
On this moment are the empty cabinets waiting for a white colour painting by an autopainting workplace. After this job is done I will try the filtering in this system and then I will make photo's of the system. I will also give you mine opinion about the sound. This will take a period of time but I will inform you.
In The Hague is settled the Dutch goverment and is also a nice and important city in Holland. I live in the region of Amsterdam but my father comes from Italy.
So Ciao and thanks from Holland.
First of all thank you for sharing this information. I have still a few questions and remarks. In the information about the cabinet misses the total height of the cabinet. And I assume that the measerments are taken from the outside of the cabinet?
What is also strange, is that you talk about de 17W75XL instead of the 17W75ext. The 17W75XL is especially designed for an open cabinetsystem like a bassreflextype. The 17W75ext is designed for a closed ( or variovent) cabinetsystem. I hope that it is a slip of the pen otherwise it is normal that you had problems with the bass sound if there is really the use with a 17W75XL in a closed cabinet with or without the use with a variovent.
After examing the MDY-4 filter I notice that they use an 3 order 18dB filter for the tweeter and a 1 order 6dB filter for the basmid speaker. Dynaudio uses most of the time 1 order 6dB filtering in their filters. I think it makes the work for the tweeter much more easier and maybe better sounding with an18dB filer . So I will give this a try. Madisound has also used impedancecorrection what could be very helpfull for mine tubeamplifiers to perform well.
On this moment are the empty cabinets waiting for a white colour painting by an autopainting workplace. After this job is done I will try the filtering in this system and then I will make photo's of the system. I will also give you mine opinion about the sound. This will take a period of time but I will inform you.
In The Hague is settled the Dutch goverment and is also a nice and important city in Holland. I live in the region of Amsterdam but my father comes from Italy.
So Ciao and thanks from Holland.
My apologies for not including the cabinet height. It is 16". The construction is of 3/4" MDF and there are no internal braces. All measurements are external.
For some reason I had in my head that the woofers were 17W75XL (keep in mind I purchased them circa 1994). The correct woofer, as I confirmed from several sources, is the 17W75 ER (as you pointed out).
The MDY-4 is a bespoke Madisound design, and for whatever reason they prefer a steeper slope in the crossover. When I gutted the MDY-4 to populate a set of Dynaudio Twynn, Madisound offered two crossovers: the 6 dB slope Dynaudio design and their own steeper crossover.
Good luck and keep me posted.
For some reason I had in my head that the woofers were 17W75XL (keep in mind I purchased them circa 1994). The correct woofer, as I confirmed from several sources, is the 17W75 ER (as you pointed out).
The MDY-4 is a bespoke Madisound design, and for whatever reason they prefer a steeper slope in the crossover. When I gutted the MDY-4 to populate a set of Dynaudio Twynn, Madisound offered two crossovers: the 6 dB slope Dynaudio design and their own steeper crossover.
Good luck and keep me posted.
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