Hi
I am looking to upgrade myOrtofon mc20supermkII .. Idont like bright cartridges. Realising this is a purely subjective topic, I would still appreciate opinions and advice. One can look at graphs till the cows come home...
Thanks
Nick
I am looking to upgrade myOrtofon mc20supermkII .. Idont like bright cartridges. Realising this is a purely subjective topic, I would still appreciate opinions and advice. One can look at graphs till the cows come home...
Thanks
Nick
duderduderini said:
I would seriously look at the Benz line of cartridges. They are the antithesis of tipped up hyper detailed MC sound, instead focusing in on a natural midrange that gets close to the music.
Re: Thanks
I have a high output Glider, a LO Ruby, and now a LO Ruby 3. I have a friend who has a LO Ace, which he enjoys greatly, and another friend with a L2 (next step up from the Glider) which sounded better than my older Ruby at the time (before I upgraded to a Ruby 3). Also, I have another friend who has a Cardas Heart and Carnegie One, both made by Benz. They all are similar in their characteristics, only increased resolution, better tracking, and lower groove noise as one moves up the line.
David
duderduderini said:
I have a high output Glider, a LO Ruby, and now a LO Ruby 3. I have a friend who has a LO Ace, which he enjoys greatly, and another friend with a L2 (next step up from the Glider) which sounded better than my older Ruby at the time (before I upgraded to a Ruby 3). Also, I have another friend who has a Cardas Heart and Carnegie One, both made by Benz. They all are similar in their characteristics, only increased resolution, better tracking, and lower groove noise as one moves up the line.
David
Benz carts seems interresting, but I would never buy a 500$ cartridge from a company that does not even have a webiste.
Edit: I'm not really serious.
By the way, i'm using a Denon DL-103 and love it. As good as a Kontrapunkt A in my system.
Edit: I'm not really serious.
By the way, i'm using a Denon DL-103 and love it. As good as a Kontrapunkt A in my system.
Re: Re: Thanks
I have a friend who never listened to his Glider again after buying a DL-103 🙂
dmcgown said:
I have a friend who never listened to his Glider again after buying a DL-103 🙂
re the denon
Hi Fi world describe the dl103 as quite bright?.. This is the trouble isnt it.. the expense of MC and the experimentation required to find the sound one loves.
I have noted a harshness in the mc20 in trumpets, upper register vocals etc... no matter what i try it wont go away. I have also read some mc's have resonances/ peaks that cant be modified.
I may have to go to melbourne and see if there are any hi fi shops with set up decks with a few differing carts on them.. but i dont fancy my chances..
essentially i want an mc which has a flat or slightly falling frequency response not the other way as i have often seen.
Thanks
Hi Fi world describe the dl103 as quite bright?.. This is the trouble isnt it.. the expense of MC and the experimentation required to find the sound one loves.
I have noted a harshness in the mc20 in trumpets, upper register vocals etc... no matter what i try it wont go away. I have also read some mc's have resonances/ peaks that cant be modified.
I may have to go to melbourne and see if there are any hi fi shops with set up decks with a few differing carts on them.. but i dont fancy my chances..
essentially i want an mc which has a flat or slightly falling frequency response not the other way as i have often seen.
Thanks
IMO, your Ortofon is no slouch. Maybe work on the loading and the rest of the system until it sounds right. There's also the issue of the tonearm and the resonant frequency with a particular cartridge. Finally, don't forget alignment- have you got a decent tool for that? I think a lot of things that get blamed on cartridges are really system issues because that cartridge is relying on a host of both electrical and mechanical factors to work correctly.
tried everything
Hi Conrad
I have a thorens td125 mk2.. rega 300b arm. I have the ortofon aligner as well as one called the Once setup guide... I have tried everything i can think of... the only thing maybe is that b+ to the 6sl7/sn7 phono amp is too low by maybe 70V dc... I am scratching my head at this point....
Will keep ploddng
The ortofon i have is old and i was looking to get something else anyways. I am not specifically blaming it but was feeling the pond as to what cartridges are percieved to be smooth and natural...
It seems these days some mc's are to much one way or another for that showroom audition
Nick
Hi Conrad
I have a thorens td125 mk2.. rega 300b arm. I have the ortofon aligner as well as one called the Once setup guide... I have tried everything i can think of... the only thing maybe is that b+ to the 6sl7/sn7 phono amp is too low by maybe 70V dc... I am scratching my head at this point....
Will keep ploddng
The ortofon i have is old and i was looking to get something else anyways. I am not specifically blaming it but was feeling the pond as to what cartridges are percieved to be smooth and natural...
It seems these days some mc's are to much one way or another for that showroom audition
Nick
I use a denon dl 103 as well - I do not know where this idiotic notion of brightness comes from - it is not borne out by the facts.
I tested it with pinknoise from a test lp (one by floyd toole) and found the reproduction as linear as it gets from 20 Hz to 20 kHz - and with tracking ability of up to +12db testsignal.
I sold both my MM shure ultra 500 as well as the V15V xmr.
I run mine on a td 125 with an mg 1 airbearing arm, as well as on a transcriptor with an sme 3009.
dl 103
Of what i read in the hi fi mags.. the 103 polarises people more than the linn sondek does.. Hi fi world dont like it so much but describe it as a forward sounding cart as far as i can recollect. The fact that its still in production would indicate it isnt a dud. But the ruler flat response is very valuable indeed.
Then there's the 103 r...
Nick
Of what i read in the hi fi mags.. the 103 polarises people more than the linn sondek does.. Hi fi world dont like it so much but describe it as a forward sounding cart as far as i can recollect. The fact that its still in production would indicate it isnt a dud. But the ruler flat response is very valuable indeed.
Then there's the 103 r...
Nick
Hi duderduderini
I have used the ortofon cartridge for a while and like it. I found that the rega 300 did not get the best from the cartridge. I got better results with the hadcock arm but got the best results with the townshend Excaliber arm.
Don
I have used the ortofon cartridge for a while and like it. I found that the rega 300 did not get the best from the cartridge. I got better results with the hadcock arm but got the best results with the townshend Excaliber arm.
Don
Understand that I haven't fooled with cartridges in a number of years, but does it respond to loading changes? You can't hurt anything with loads between zero and infinite ohms, so don't tie yourself to preconceived notions about "correct". Same thing with capacitance, and be sure any loading caps are top notch. IMO, the effects of interconnects on the rest of the system are subtle, no matter how people describe them, but the miniscule signal from a MC cartridge needs the best handling of any signal in the system. It seems that's where you can get the most bang for the buck with the best wire and dielectrics. I'm just getting intrigued by diy tonearms and turntables. The best materials may not be those thought commercially acceptable by traditional manufacturers, and we have some things now that weren't previously available, so there's a world of opportunity and experimentation possible down that road.
Hi
I agree with you Conrad. In rebuilding my audio system I have found that the rega arm was not as good as I first thought. I also found that improving the wire between the cartridge and phone amp and playing with the cartridge loading using better components made a massive difference.
I think your cartridge is worth trying with a different arm and with different settings and better components. I also have a benz micro glider, a couple of audio technicas ( for easy listening )and a few garrott deccas( for when I want to hear the truth). Your cartridge compares well with any of the above.
Don
I agree with you Conrad. In rebuilding my audio system I have found that the rega arm was not as good as I first thought. I also found that improving the wire between the cartridge and phone amp and playing with the cartridge loading using better components made a massive difference.
I think your cartridge is worth trying with a different arm and with different settings and better components. I also have a benz micro glider, a couple of audio technicas ( for easy listening )and a few garrott deccas( for when I want to hear the truth). Your cartridge compares well with any of the above.
Don
duderduderini said:
I'll take you literally and suggest how to upgrade the cartridge at minimum expense. Remove the outer body and add a wedge of balsa (buy it at a model shop). It makes it a wonderful cartridge.
The body is secured by two screws. Undo them, then slide the body forwards without fuggering the cantilever. When I did this there were some unnerving cracking noises as glue bonds snapped. You will then have a naked cartridge with a dirty great magnet supported at one end only. It rings at HF because of the mass of the magnet on its support. Cut a wedge of balsa wood to squeeze into the gap between the magnet and the top plate of the cartridge. Rebalance the arm and settle back to a deeply satisfying sound.
Good a chance to destroy something!!!
Hi Guys
I have tried loading from 30 ohms to about 100 ohms.. I thought the higher one went, the brighter the mc would get... so i will try this say a pot say 50k lin....and see what happens.
Given the fact that most mc carts are "naked" i probably try EC's suggestion.. what does removing the cover do?
Thanks
Nick
Hi Guys
I have tried loading from 30 ohms to about 100 ohms.. I thought the higher one went, the brighter the mc would get... so i will try this say a pot say 50k lin....and see what happens.
Given the fact that most mc carts are "naked" i probably try EC's suggestion.. what does removing the cover do?
Thanks
Nick
It gets rid of a resonant cavity and allows bracing of the magnets. There used to be a similar mod on the Sumiko carts, which Sumiko then adopted as a model change.
Oh, you meant the sound?
Well, first, it frightens the willies out of you (those horrible cracking noises). Then, if you've managed not to break the wires or fugger the cantilever, it further frightens you because the cantilever is horribly exposed. On the other hand, aligning the arm/cartridge for minimised geometric errors is ever so easy and the reduced cartridge mass makes a 10Hz arm/cartridge resonant frequency easily achievable.
It's like the difference between open baffles and box loudspeakers. Corny, but true.
duderduderini said:
Well, first, it frightens the willies out of you (those horrible cracking noises). Then, if you've managed not to break the wires or fugger the cantilever, it further frightens you because the cantilever is horribly exposed. On the other hand, aligning the arm/cartridge for minimised geometric errors is ever so easy and the reduced cartridge mass makes a 10Hz arm/cartridge resonant frequency easily achievable.
It's like the difference between open baffles and box loudspeakers. Corny, but true.
HI Ec
Hi EC
I didnt mean destroying the sound but the cart!!! Souinds scary but if you say it inmproves the sound i will do it. Can you tell me where the screws are and what else i need to worry about?
Thanks
Nick
ps got any ideas about the value of loading and or capacitance i should try?
Thanks
Hi EC
I didnt mean destroying the sound but the cart!!! Souinds scary but if you say it inmproves the sound i will do it. Can you tell me where the screws are and what else i need to worry about?
Thanks
Nick
ps got any ideas about the value of loading and or capacitance i should try?
Thanks
- Status
- Not open for further replies.