All,
I have built a pair of Mauhorn XII and mounted them with Lowther EX2. I am driving them with a 300B monoblock (inspired from WE91, Joe Robert's version from Sound Practice) (JLB). Well, in short, they sound terrible, all shouty and tiny. Although the Lowthers are new, I cant imagine that any break-in will correct the sound so much. The amp works wonderfully with other speakers, and the Mauhorn XII are supposed to be designed for Lowther EX series so I thought that I was playing it safe. This is my first pair of DIY speakers and I am quite new in the that game so any recommendation would be welcome. I ordered a Fostex FE206n just to see how it sounds in the enclosure but I am still waiting for it.
Thank you
I have built a pair of Mauhorn XII and mounted them with Lowther EX2. I am driving them with a 300B monoblock (inspired from WE91, Joe Robert's version from Sound Practice) (JLB). Well, in short, they sound terrible, all shouty and tiny. Although the Lowthers are new, I cant imagine that any break-in will correct the sound so much. The amp works wonderfully with other speakers, and the Mauhorn XII are supposed to be designed for Lowther EX series so I thought that I was playing it safe. This is my first pair of DIY speakers and I am quite new in the that game so any recommendation would be welcome. I ordered a Fostex FE206n just to see how it sounds in the enclosure but I am still waiting for it.
Thank you
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I found my 4.5" Fostex drivers improved after several good thrashings. I've no direct experience with your Lowthers, but the signature sound is similar, I'm told.
Perhaps someone else can chime in to confirm, but I'd expect things to improve with them hooked up playing bass-heavy (to get the cones moving a bit) music while you're out.
Chris
Perhaps someone else can chime in to confirm, but I'd expect things to improve with them hooked up playing bass-heavy (to get the cones moving a bit) music while you're out.
Chris
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To be honest I wasn't a fan of lowthers. They had a sweet range in the 100 to approx 2k but outside of this I thought they sounded horrible on everything except string orchestral movements. I just assumed it was personal taste and listening music that defined their popularity
Sounds similar to my (now outdated, if people are reading this) Fostexes.
I still found mine were incredibly harsh and forward out-of-the-box, so I looked around online and was told they need a thrashing.
Played 15 Step by Radiohead, with the LF boosted via eq, and gradually increased the volume each time.
The speakers were wired out of phase to reduce the amount they'd annoy other people, and left for a day at a time - I'd have a quick listen before school, set them going and then try again in the evening.
They came on in leaps and bounds initially, with progressively smaller changes as the break-in continued.
There are still people that love those little Fostex drivers, and they do what they do very well, but they don't like to be pushed outside their comfort zone. Marylin Manson was therefore off the menu.
I've since switched to some more meaty 8" Behringer monitors and find them much better for my music. I suspect they give up a little detail in the midrange, but their ability to put out a huge wall of sound for heavy metal is very welcome.
Chris
Whatever their other merits, my own experience has been that, the typical 8in Lowther models tend to measure in free air with something on the nature of a 10-12dB rise in response between ~1.5KHz - 8KHz. Probably a bit less on an IEC baffle, but the major impact in that case is usually lower down. Some people like this sort of balance, others can't live with it. YMMV on that one; it sounds like Julien (?) falls into the latter category.
There is a certain advantage in terms of off-axis response < ~10KHz; to an extent that may be a case of history at work. The Lowther drive units were originally designed to be listened to indirectly, either fired off a wall, or through a horn, and there weren't many recordings with material above ~10KHz at that time anyway, with even fewer who had access to carrier mediums capable of holding such high frequencies. Most of them aren't used that way now, and probably haven't been since the early 1960s, but the FR of the drive units, as far as I am aware, never changed a great deal, even if it might not be representative of Voigt's original intentions. An interesting, if abstract point. Most of them (not all) are also of course expected to be used with high output impedance amplifiers.
Either way, Lowther appear to serve a market demand: their buyers appear to want them to sound that way, or the weight of their heritage is such that people simply accept that that's the way it is. Until there is sufficient market pressure for them to do something different, they aren't likely to, and from a business perspective, I don't blame them. I'll take a gander at the Mauhorn XII and see what gives though.
There is a certain advantage in terms of off-axis response < ~10KHz; to an extent that may be a case of history at work. The Lowther drive units were originally designed to be listened to indirectly, either fired off a wall, or through a horn, and there weren't many recordings with material above ~10KHz at that time anyway, with even fewer who had access to carrier mediums capable of holding such high frequencies. Most of them aren't used that way now, and probably haven't been since the early 1960s, but the FR of the drive units, as far as I am aware, never changed a great deal, even if it might not be representative of Voigt's original intentions. An interesting, if abstract point. Most of them (not all) are also of course expected to be used with high output impedance amplifiers.
Either way, Lowther appear to serve a market demand: their buyers appear to want them to sound that way, or the weight of their heritage is such that people simply accept that that's the way it is. Until there is sufficient market pressure for them to do something different, they aren't likely to, and from a business perspective, I don't blame them. I'll take a gander at the Mauhorn XII and see what gives though.
julienbas,
I don't know the specifics of your situation, but most of my single full range driver builds have required baffle step correction (BSC). Without BSC, they were unlistenable: what I assume people mean by "shouty"; too much highs and not enough lows.
I haven't heard the Lowther EX series, but I have listened to several of their Alnico and ceramic motor drivers in Martin King's builds. All sounded very good to me--and all were used with BSC.
Cheers, Jim
I don't know the specifics of your situation, but most of my single full range driver builds have required baffle step correction (BSC). Without BSC, they were unlistenable: what I assume people mean by "shouty"; too much highs and not enough lows.
I haven't heard the Lowther EX series, but I have listened to several of their Alnico and ceramic motor drivers in Martin King's builds. All sounded very good to me--and all were used with BSC.
Cheers, Jim
Many back-horns shouldn't need compensation for step-loss; that's one of the reasons to use them since you can use the gain to cancel out the losses, although there are other reasons (for & against) of course. 😉 With that said, as I mentioned above, many of the Lowther units could do with a shelving filter due to their inherent response, although I'd probably want a bypass cap on it too so the response > 10KHz doesn't drop like a brick.
Attached are some quick & dirty response plots for the Mauhorn XII. Most under 1/2 space conditions; the lowest is a nominal in-room; 1m distance; front baffle edges 1m from front & sidewalls, carpeted floor, angled 45 degrees into the room. Latter could be worse TBH; this is one of the ones that probably needs a shelving filter as it happens, but I've seen worse. Practical in-room conditions will make things rather more 'interesting' as per usual though.
Attached are some quick & dirty response plots for the Mauhorn XII. Most under 1/2 space conditions; the lowest is a nominal in-room; 1m distance; front baffle edges 1m from front & sidewalls, carpeted floor, angled 45 degrees into the room. Latter could be worse TBH; this is one of the ones that probably needs a shelving filter as it happens, but I've seen worse. Practical in-room conditions will make things rather more 'interesting' as per usual though.
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Thank you all,
- Lyndonlim, I used very dense MDF. Here is a quick montage, from renderings to speakers. The profile is exactly of a Mauhorn XII, with a curved path.
- Jim Shearer, I dont know about BSC and I will investigate right now. Do you recommend a calculator, and any reference I can wrap my head around?
- chris661 ,thanks. I will try to break them in a bit more aggressively. My main issue is that my wife and little kids are at home most of the day so I dont get much time to play boomy loud stuff.
Overall, I dont need huge bass (I woudl have gone for another design otherwise), but balanced sound. It seems that breaking them in + BSC might be a way to go. I am also experimenting with my amp to re-enforce the bass response a bit.
- Lyndonlim, I used very dense MDF. Here is a quick montage, from renderings to speakers. The profile is exactly of a Mauhorn XII, with a curved path.
- Jim Shearer, I dont know about BSC and I will investigate right now. Do you recommend a calculator, and any reference I can wrap my head around?
- chris661 ,thanks. I will try to break them in a bit more aggressively. My main issue is that my wife and little kids are at home most of the day so I dont get much time to play boomy loud stuff.
Overall, I dont need huge bass (I woudl have gone for another design otherwise), but balanced sound. It seems that breaking them in + BSC might be a way to go. I am also experimenting with my amp to re-enforce the bass response a bit.
Julien,
You are a pro cabinet maker man! Superb equipment and skills.
As for me, the lowthers I had made my ears bleed even a few rooms away I could hear the shout. It's not a subtle effect either but different strokes for different folks...some people can tolerate the behaviour at high frequencies.
You are a pro cabinet maker man! Superb equipment and skills.
As for me, the lowthers I had made my ears bleed even a few rooms away I could hear the shout. It's not a subtle effect either but different strokes for different folks...some people can tolerate the behaviour at high frequencies.
hi Julien
ive lived with a pair of dx2 for a while and loved the things they do well
unfortunately as you have found there are some things they do that are not so great
use mjk,s baffle step circuit and adjust to your preference you will loose some of that sparkle but they will become much more listenable
rgds Sheafer
ive lived with a pair of dx2 for a while and loved the things they do well
unfortunately as you have found there are some things they do that are not so great
use mjk,s baffle step circuit and adjust to your preference you will loose some of that sparkle but they will become much more listenable
rgds Sheafer
Hi Julienlebas,
if you wanted to play safe then you should make Hedlund horn.
I made the same enclosure (mauhorn XII) for dx2 some 11-12 years ago. Also with round edges/folds, but not so precise build as yours. Beside shy bass it was involving sound.
You can try several things. One is to toe in loudspeakers to your likings, or/and to add 0.02$ cent mod, by placing strip of foam around whizzer. Also try to play with volume of backchamber.
You can also think about this:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amp...e-amplifiers-and-sensitive-full-range-drivers
Good luck 🙂
if you wanted to play safe then you should make Hedlund horn.
I made the same enclosure (mauhorn XII) for dx2 some 11-12 years ago. Also with round edges/folds, but not so precise build as yours. Beside shy bass it was involving sound.
You can try several things. One is to toe in loudspeakers to your likings, or/and to add 0.02$ cent mod, by placing strip of foam around whizzer. Also try to play with volume of backchamber.
You can also think about this:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amp...e-amplifiers-and-sensitive-full-range-drivers
Good luck 🙂
Scott,
I agree that a suitably positioned (in a good room), well designed & executed horn shouldn't need BSC. But I have no idea of the particulars in this situation. BSC might be a Hail Mary with a horn, but I'd try pretty much everything possible before I would give up on a pricey driver. Especially since I was in the position of being ready to toss in the towel on the Fostex F120A--until Martin brought over his tube amp and surprised us both.
julienbas,
The BSC calculator I use is on MJK's website: Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design
It's not always right, but it's a place to start. My guess would be that if BSC is helpful at all, it might be 2 dB of correction--but that's only a WAG.
Cheers, Jim
I agree that a suitably positioned (in a good room), well designed & executed horn shouldn't need BSC. But I have no idea of the particulars in this situation. BSC might be a Hail Mary with a horn, but I'd try pretty much everything possible before I would give up on a pricey driver. Especially since I was in the position of being ready to toss in the towel on the Fostex F120A--until Martin brought over his tube amp and surprised us both.
julienbas,
The BSC calculator I use is on MJK's website: Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design
It's not always right, but it's a place to start. My guess would be that if BSC is helpful at all, it might be 2 dB of correction--but that's only a WAG.
Cheers, Jim
Thanks Jim and Tivoski,
Unfortunately my listening room is anything but great, about square, hard floor, very large windows... You get the idea. That's the price to pay to live with little kids in a very expensive city 🙂
That said, I am going to try a BSC based on the articles you shared, thank you.
Has anyone tried a good old pro grade graphic equalizer in the signal path in order to get an idea of correction needs? I have one on storage from some old pro sound system days. I might give it a shot just for curiosity.
I also saw some articles regarding correction in the signal path (between preamp and amp) instead of the speaker. Any thought on that?
Unfortunately my listening room is anything but great, about square, hard floor, very large windows... You get the idea. That's the price to pay to live with little kids in a very expensive city 🙂
That said, I am going to try a BSC based on the articles you shared, thank you.
Has anyone tried a good old pro grade graphic equalizer in the signal path in order to get an idea of correction needs? I have one on storage from some old pro sound system days. I might give it a shot just for curiosity.
I also saw some articles regarding correction in the signal path (between preamp and amp) instead of the speaker. Any thought on that?
If you want to get an idea of correction needs and are willing to spend money on an "old pro grade graphic equalizer", I would suggest spending that money on a measurement microphone and get yourself something like ARTA or RoomEQwizard, free acoustic measurement software. Then you won't just get an idea of measurement needs, you would simply know, exactly. I hesitated years to get measurement gear, I regret not having bought it sooner.
I used Lowther PM6Cs in various backloaded and frontloaded horns myself. Off axis helps, I had a graphic EQ and did the foam around the wizard tweak. The foam around the wizard really helps, I remember it really softened the sound and made it more controlled. It was an advantage and a disadvantage. It sounded more like regular hifi...
The whizzer tweek is worth trying. I used it myself on Fostex FE167e drivers in Metronomes. A small amount of Acousta-Stuf fiber around the whizzer made a small, but worthwhile, improvement. Anything more than that bit of light, very fluffy fiber made things worse instead of better.
Cheers, Jim
Cheers, Jim
should be nice in a Karlson coupler - say a K12 size - FE206EN in a K12 sounds better than my Klipschorns
ok all, thank you very much for all the input. I studied the papers from MJK, and a bunch of components are on their way to built various BSCs. A friend of mine also got me a proper microphone and gear to do some measurements. Now I just need to learn how to do it and what the hell I am looking at.
More soon,
More soon,
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