Hi,
there is the RG179 mil-spec. coax cable that seemed so nice to me:
Teflon, silver coated...
But: The inner wires are of copper-iron and magnetic.
Does that make a problem ?
Heard that non-magnetic resistors are better than normal ones.
How about tantalum caps in power supplys ?
Lower leakage ?
I want to use this after my regulators in active crossover power supply:
Too low ESR ?
Greetings, Bernhard
there is the RG179 mil-spec. coax cable that seemed so nice to me:
Teflon, silver coated...
But: The inner wires are of copper-iron and magnetic.
Does that make a problem ?
Heard that non-magnetic resistors are better than normal ones.
How about tantalum caps in power supplys ?
Lower leakage ?
I want to use this after my regulators in active crossover power supply:
Too low ESR ?
Greetings, Bernhard
This will no doubt cause apoplexy amongst the objectivists, but I would avoid steel in any audio related circuits.
I have read many references to the subject of adverse effects caused by magnetic materials in audio circuits, although, regrettably, I cannot cite any of them immediately.
However, demagnetising components does appear to have a beneficial effect on the overall sound, so if you can avoid any part of a circuit becoming magnetised in the first place, it would seem to obviate this need for demagnitising.
I am personally very familiar with the 'sound' of tantalums, though, and would steer well clear of them at all times.
Every circuit I have had experience of (including several which I have constructed myself) has sounded better for the removal of tantalum caps, irrespective of how good they may seem from a technical standpoint. One of the first amps I built (over 30 years ago) had many of the then 'new' tantalum bead caps used as local PS bypasses, but it was disappointing to listen to until I got rid of them all.
These tants were espoused by the UK audio designer and 'Guru' John Linsley Hood because of their apparent technical superiority over aluminium electrolytics, but after I demonstrated to him that they had a bad effect on the amp's sound, he desisted from recommending them in his later audio circuits.
I don't pretend to know why, but they 'sound' harsh and gritty, as do most ceramics, incidentally.
If you go to the lengths of substituting silver micas for ceramics in higher frequency analogue audio gear (radio tuners, for example, where ceramics are popularly used), the overall sound is much sweeter and smoother, although there is no change in the overall balance etc. Ceramics are cheap, and on paper perform well at higher frequencies, no doubt due to their low inductance, but unfortunately they also have an adverse affect, certainly on the sound of analogue audio gear.
Polystyrenes and polypropylenes, although also smoother sounding than ceramics, are not so good in these locations, as, due to their usually rolled-up style of construction, they are more inductive.
Even the stacked foil (much lower inductance) construction plastic films do not appear to be as good as silver micas in these RF locations.
One caveat, however, and this reinforces my views on magnetic components, most of the readily available sil micas in the UK are now made with magnetic leads, apparently because they can be readily installed in PCB's with automatic equipment.
Having done some component substitutions relatively recently, I found that the sound had not improved to the degree which I had expected, and when I checked with a magnet, the leads on the sil micas I had used were magnetic.
Maybe this was merely a coincidence, but three different manufactured sil micas were not good sounding, and they all had magnetic leads when I subsequently tested them. They were all better than ceramics, though, as I had anticipated.
TAB sil micas, made in the UK are good sounding, and maybe also coincidentally, they have plain copper leads, are very carefully made during construction (lead attachment methods differ, and these TAB's leads are soldered, not merely crimped) and they are completely non-magnetic.
Interestingly, and perversely, I am lead to believe that tantalum resistors sound very good, although I have not yet tried any myself, and regrettably I cannot understand nor explain this, if it is true.
I hope these experiences are helpful to you.
I have read many references to the subject of adverse effects caused by magnetic materials in audio circuits, although, regrettably, I cannot cite any of them immediately.
However, demagnetising components does appear to have a beneficial effect on the overall sound, so if you can avoid any part of a circuit becoming magnetised in the first place, it would seem to obviate this need for demagnitising.
I am personally very familiar with the 'sound' of tantalums, though, and would steer well clear of them at all times.
Every circuit I have had experience of (including several which I have constructed myself) has sounded better for the removal of tantalum caps, irrespective of how good they may seem from a technical standpoint. One of the first amps I built (over 30 years ago) had many of the then 'new' tantalum bead caps used as local PS bypasses, but it was disappointing to listen to until I got rid of them all.
These tants were espoused by the UK audio designer and 'Guru' John Linsley Hood because of their apparent technical superiority over aluminium electrolytics, but after I demonstrated to him that they had a bad effect on the amp's sound, he desisted from recommending them in his later audio circuits.
I don't pretend to know why, but they 'sound' harsh and gritty, as do most ceramics, incidentally.
If you go to the lengths of substituting silver micas for ceramics in higher frequency analogue audio gear (radio tuners, for example, where ceramics are popularly used), the overall sound is much sweeter and smoother, although there is no change in the overall balance etc. Ceramics are cheap, and on paper perform well at higher frequencies, no doubt due to their low inductance, but unfortunately they also have an adverse affect, certainly on the sound of analogue audio gear.
Polystyrenes and polypropylenes, although also smoother sounding than ceramics, are not so good in these locations, as, due to their usually rolled-up style of construction, they are more inductive.
Even the stacked foil (much lower inductance) construction plastic films do not appear to be as good as silver micas in these RF locations.
One caveat, however, and this reinforces my views on magnetic components, most of the readily available sil micas in the UK are now made with magnetic leads, apparently because they can be readily installed in PCB's with automatic equipment.
Having done some component substitutions relatively recently, I found that the sound had not improved to the degree which I had expected, and when I checked with a magnet, the leads on the sil micas I had used were magnetic.
Maybe this was merely a coincidence, but three different manufactured sil micas were not good sounding, and they all had magnetic leads when I subsequently tested them. They were all better than ceramics, though, as I had anticipated.
TAB sil micas, made in the UK are good sounding, and maybe also coincidentally, they have plain copper leads, are very carefully made during construction (lead attachment methods differ, and these TAB's leads are soldered, not merely crimped) and they are completely non-magnetic.
Interestingly, and perversely, I am lead to believe that tantalum resistors sound very good, although I have not yet tried any myself, and regrettably I cannot understand nor explain this, if it is true.
I hope these experiences are helpful to you.
Thanks for the reply,
That leads me to my next problem, there are hermetically sealed vacuum relais with pure gold contacts, giving the hope to never again having problems with bad contacts.
And guess what ? The housing is magnetic, the leads ar magnetic, everything is magnetic... 🙁 😡
Greetings, Bernhard
That leads me to my next problem, there are hermetically sealed vacuum relais with pure gold contacts, giving the hope to never again having problems with bad contacts.
And guess what ? The housing is magnetic, the leads ar magnetic, everything is magnetic... 🙁 😡
Greetings, Bernhard
I see the dilemma you are in now!
However, very few things in life are purely black or white, and audio design (and all of life for that matter) is about compromises.
In another post I have stated my intense dislike of the 'sound' of all electrolytic capacitors, but, unfortunately, it is rare to find a circuit which avoids them entirely, and therefore, if one cannot re-design the circuit to eliminate them, one has to pick the least damaging caps from the 'sound' point of view, or avoid using that circuit design, altogether.
As it also happens, I would avoid relays in a similar manner to steel if I had free choice, as after many careful listening tests, I don't much care for any of them I have so far tried. (Fuses are even worse!)
Mostly, I have found good quality switches (Shallco for example, and some of the better Elmas) to have less adverse effect on the overall sound than most relays, but it may result in longer signal paths if wiring needs then to be routed to the front of a preamp, instead of arranging for the switching to be carried out close to the relevant circuitry by means of a relay.
Personally, just as with most other 'flavours of the month' which I have witnessed during many years of audio experimentation, I feel that far too much emphasis is currently being placed on the length of the signal path in audio gear. It is a very good sales 'feature' though, I am sure, but DIYers don't need to concern themselves with such irrelevant matters!
Of course, if there are no other downsides to consider, it seems a good idea to minimise everything that you can, and I am all for that, but remember that the average speaker cables are a meter or two long, and the interconnects are probably not much shorter, and the signal needs to go through all of these as well. But much more significantly, with the average length of wire in the inductors feeding most 3 way loudspeaker mid-range drivers being many meters long (and they do the lions share of the work), not to mention the length of wire in the voice coils themselves of most conventional speaker drivers, I don't get too hung up on this particular issue.
At least in a preamp you have some control over the placing of internal wiring which can be re-routed or shielded in some way, and I feel the biggest potential for harming the sonic results comes from unwanted inductive 'pickup' from other wires, or transformers, or RFI, or whatever, rather than from an extra few centimeters of carefully chosen and located internal wiring.
As with everything, though, I would urge you to listen yourself to the affects of the relays you have in mind, and see what you think.
Find a location where it is easy to gain access and where the overall signal level is reasonably similar, for example, perhaps the interconnects leading to, or exiting from, the preamp (or whatever), and connect one of the relays with the contacts appropriately closed into the wiring of one channel only.
Sit both speakers side by side in front of you in the middle of the room to help eliminate unwanted dissimilar room reflections and play some monophonic music, whilst switching from one channel over to the other.
It is often possible to connect such a device for testing into a single tape loop, and switch this in and out of circuit by this means, but this is generally less revealing in my experience, as most tape loops are 'buffered' by additional (usually not such good quality) circuitry, which may tend to mask the results somewhat.
Bear in mind that no two amplifier channels I have *carefully* listened to, nor any two similar stereo speakers I have ever come accross, sounded *exactly* alike, so if the results are not very consistent (and to ensure accuracy in your tests) conduct the tests several ways, swapping firstly the amplifier channels around to the same speaker, and then moving the speakers into each other's locations etc.
I would then expect for you to reach a consistent conclusion by way of the comparison between "with a relay" or whatever is being tested, or "with no relay" in circuit, and if there should be no real preference (this very rarely happens, in my experience!), I wouldn't worry about the use of the relay as it doesn't seem to be having much adverse affect.
Incidentally, in my view *all* electronic components have some adverse affect on the overall sound (as none of them are perfect), but if the level is so low as not to be heard during such carefully carried out tests, it is unlikely that that the results will be noticeable during normal listening. This is, of course, unless you are using so many of the same components in the circuit (such as resistors for example, which are another matter altogether) as this will tend to exaggerate any adverse effects due to the cumulative addition of so many similar parts.
Don't forget, you are only trying to hear any *differences* which might be apparent, not judging the overall sound in any way, but although absolute values are not important here, you do need to eliminate as many of the other 'variables' as possible which could affect or distort the results.
It is only these 'differences' (if any), which are directly caused as a result of the introduction of the relay, which will mask or colour, or adversely affect, the overall sound, and these are all you need to identify in that particular test.
Usually, a few seconds is all that is needed when you are familiar with these tests, as you know what to look out for. It is the instantaneous comparison when switching frequently between each channel, which makes the job surprisingly easy after a while, and my wife will often describe the differences (which I will agree with, nine times out of ten!) quite well to me, and she is not really interested in such matters.
High frequencies are usually the first to 'show' me anything, and I use female voices I know quite well as they show up any obvious distortion caused by 'diodic effects' due to connections which are not perfect. Check the mid and bass, as well of course, for any abberations, together with the 'attack' of the sound throughout the entire frequency range to ensure there is no apparent 'softening' being introduced. There is no soundstage from left to right to consider with only one speaker at a time, but the depth of the soundfield front to back is still apparent, and if this all seems OK. you should have no worries!
Although the best quality cables you can use to 'break into' for carrying out these tests will make the results more immediately obvious, I have had quite reasonable success during "my early days" using less good cables, provided they are the same for each channel, of course. Also, usually you can unsolder the terminations of phono cables with care, and then re-use them if necessary, but I keep some now especially for this purpose.
In the case of poorer cables, the overall subjective sound of *both* channels will be less good admittedly, but they would need to rather lousy cables to entirely 'mask' all differences which you are likely to perceive.
Unfortunately, such processes can be very time-consuming, and like me, you will probably end up with many boxes of "used once only" so called 'wonder components', but this is the only way to be absolutely sure of the sonic effects of any of them.
I learned to my bitter disappointment many years ago, that neither specs nor price alone are sufficient indicators of the sonic results of components, but any component which is badly or shoddily made with poor quality control by the makers etc., is unlikely to be good over the long term.
After all, it is the sonic results that count, and, occasionally I have had a few nice surprises during such tests, and it could be that the relays you have in mind are not very harmful, and if so, would you please share the results with the rest of us.
Finally, clearly the 'magnetic' question is not such a simple one, even though from all of my tests I would still deliberately avoid any magnetic materials by choice (including steel [except stainless] enclosures, by the way), as all conventional coil speakers have a magnet about as close to the voice coil as is possible, and yet they still seem to be satisfactory!
I regret that I cannot explain this, but nevertheless, I wonder what a 'magnet less' speaker would sound like, if only one could achieve the seemingly impossible and make the voice coil move a cone or diaphragm in the same way but without any permanent magnets in the vicinity.
I also wonder if some of the clear benefits of say electrostatics, Ionoshperes, and some of the other unconventional speakers which have appeared over the years, might be attributable to the avoidance of electromagnetic operation which is perhaps not as linear in actual operation as it could be, and not just to the (usually touted) much lower masses of their "diaphragms" etc.
Phono cartridges, also being mostly electromagnetic in operation, interest me similarly, but that is another matter!
Regards,
However, very few things in life are purely black or white, and audio design (and all of life for that matter) is about compromises.
In another post I have stated my intense dislike of the 'sound' of all electrolytic capacitors, but, unfortunately, it is rare to find a circuit which avoids them entirely, and therefore, if one cannot re-design the circuit to eliminate them, one has to pick the least damaging caps from the 'sound' point of view, or avoid using that circuit design, altogether.
As it also happens, I would avoid relays in a similar manner to steel if I had free choice, as after many careful listening tests, I don't much care for any of them I have so far tried. (Fuses are even worse!)
Mostly, I have found good quality switches (Shallco for example, and some of the better Elmas) to have less adverse effect on the overall sound than most relays, but it may result in longer signal paths if wiring needs then to be routed to the front of a preamp, instead of arranging for the switching to be carried out close to the relevant circuitry by means of a relay.
Personally, just as with most other 'flavours of the month' which I have witnessed during many years of audio experimentation, I feel that far too much emphasis is currently being placed on the length of the signal path in audio gear. It is a very good sales 'feature' though, I am sure, but DIYers don't need to concern themselves with such irrelevant matters!
Of course, if there are no other downsides to consider, it seems a good idea to minimise everything that you can, and I am all for that, but remember that the average speaker cables are a meter or two long, and the interconnects are probably not much shorter, and the signal needs to go through all of these as well. But much more significantly, with the average length of wire in the inductors feeding most 3 way loudspeaker mid-range drivers being many meters long (and they do the lions share of the work), not to mention the length of wire in the voice coils themselves of most conventional speaker drivers, I don't get too hung up on this particular issue.
At least in a preamp you have some control over the placing of internal wiring which can be re-routed or shielded in some way, and I feel the biggest potential for harming the sonic results comes from unwanted inductive 'pickup' from other wires, or transformers, or RFI, or whatever, rather than from an extra few centimeters of carefully chosen and located internal wiring.
As with everything, though, I would urge you to listen yourself to the affects of the relays you have in mind, and see what you think.
Find a location where it is easy to gain access and where the overall signal level is reasonably similar, for example, perhaps the interconnects leading to, or exiting from, the preamp (or whatever), and connect one of the relays with the contacts appropriately closed into the wiring of one channel only.
Sit both speakers side by side in front of you in the middle of the room to help eliminate unwanted dissimilar room reflections and play some monophonic music, whilst switching from one channel over to the other.
It is often possible to connect such a device for testing into a single tape loop, and switch this in and out of circuit by this means, but this is generally less revealing in my experience, as most tape loops are 'buffered' by additional (usually not such good quality) circuitry, which may tend to mask the results somewhat.
Bear in mind that no two amplifier channels I have *carefully* listened to, nor any two similar stereo speakers I have ever come accross, sounded *exactly* alike, so if the results are not very consistent (and to ensure accuracy in your tests) conduct the tests several ways, swapping firstly the amplifier channels around to the same speaker, and then moving the speakers into each other's locations etc.
I would then expect for you to reach a consistent conclusion by way of the comparison between "with a relay" or whatever is being tested, or "with no relay" in circuit, and if there should be no real preference (this very rarely happens, in my experience!), I wouldn't worry about the use of the relay as it doesn't seem to be having much adverse affect.
Incidentally, in my view *all* electronic components have some adverse affect on the overall sound (as none of them are perfect), but if the level is so low as not to be heard during such carefully carried out tests, it is unlikely that that the results will be noticeable during normal listening. This is, of course, unless you are using so many of the same components in the circuit (such as resistors for example, which are another matter altogether) as this will tend to exaggerate any adverse effects due to the cumulative addition of so many similar parts.
Don't forget, you are only trying to hear any *differences* which might be apparent, not judging the overall sound in any way, but although absolute values are not important here, you do need to eliminate as many of the other 'variables' as possible which could affect or distort the results.
It is only these 'differences' (if any), which are directly caused as a result of the introduction of the relay, which will mask or colour, or adversely affect, the overall sound, and these are all you need to identify in that particular test.
Usually, a few seconds is all that is needed when you are familiar with these tests, as you know what to look out for. It is the instantaneous comparison when switching frequently between each channel, which makes the job surprisingly easy after a while, and my wife will often describe the differences (which I will agree with, nine times out of ten!) quite well to me, and she is not really interested in such matters.
High frequencies are usually the first to 'show' me anything, and I use female voices I know quite well as they show up any obvious distortion caused by 'diodic effects' due to connections which are not perfect. Check the mid and bass, as well of course, for any abberations, together with the 'attack' of the sound throughout the entire frequency range to ensure there is no apparent 'softening' being introduced. There is no soundstage from left to right to consider with only one speaker at a time, but the depth of the soundfield front to back is still apparent, and if this all seems OK. you should have no worries!
Although the best quality cables you can use to 'break into' for carrying out these tests will make the results more immediately obvious, I have had quite reasonable success during "my early days" using less good cables, provided they are the same for each channel, of course. Also, usually you can unsolder the terminations of phono cables with care, and then re-use them if necessary, but I keep some now especially for this purpose.
In the case of poorer cables, the overall subjective sound of *both* channels will be less good admittedly, but they would need to rather lousy cables to entirely 'mask' all differences which you are likely to perceive.
Unfortunately, such processes can be very time-consuming, and like me, you will probably end up with many boxes of "used once only" so called 'wonder components', but this is the only way to be absolutely sure of the sonic effects of any of them.
I learned to my bitter disappointment many years ago, that neither specs nor price alone are sufficient indicators of the sonic results of components, but any component which is badly or shoddily made with poor quality control by the makers etc., is unlikely to be good over the long term.
After all, it is the sonic results that count, and, occasionally I have had a few nice surprises during such tests, and it could be that the relays you have in mind are not very harmful, and if so, would you please share the results with the rest of us.
Finally, clearly the 'magnetic' question is not such a simple one, even though from all of my tests I would still deliberately avoid any magnetic materials by choice (including steel [except stainless] enclosures, by the way), as all conventional coil speakers have a magnet about as close to the voice coil as is possible, and yet they still seem to be satisfactory!
I regret that I cannot explain this, but nevertheless, I wonder what a 'magnet less' speaker would sound like, if only one could achieve the seemingly impossible and make the voice coil move a cone or diaphragm in the same way but without any permanent magnets in the vicinity.
I also wonder if some of the clear benefits of say electrostatics, Ionoshperes, and some of the other unconventional speakers which have appeared over the years, might be attributable to the avoidance of electromagnetic operation which is perhaps not as linear in actual operation as it could be, and not just to the (usually touted) much lower masses of their "diaphragms" etc.
Phono cartridges, also being mostly electromagnetic in operation, interest me similarly, but that is another matter!
Regards,
Yes, and not to forget transformers...
I have a Ionoshpere and it has still a transformer but sounds far better to me than any coil or ribbon tweeter.
My personal experience with relais is, that they do not affect the sound as long as they switch.
But that only for non magnetic leads. For magnetic I worry...
I had the problem sometimes with contacts that were old with some oxyd on them, when the volume is small the ralais doesnt switch at all, or there is very high distortion, when the volume was increased, suddenly it "switches" and everything sounds ok.
I don't wish to seem disagreeable, but I would not accept that if relays switch, they sound OK.
I have 'listened' to many of them, and they have all had some affect on the sound. The problem seems to me to be in the way the contacts come together, and that is why I generally prefer switches of the rotary 'wiping contact' variety that I mentioned before.
At least these switches do self-clean as they operate.
The contact pressure is generally not very high in relays, and even some good quality hermetically-sealed gold contact relays I tried, deteriorated after a while in use, although when new, they seemed quite good.
The only way to be certain, is as I suggested, to carry out a test and see what you can hear.
If you are a perfectionist (like me), I guess having done the test you will probably prefer not to use these relays, unless there is no alternative, because even if you have found some which do sound good when new, there is still the possibility of deterioration with age, and with a sealed relay, you cannot access the contacts to clean them.
I bet those Ionospheres sound wonderful, and in some respects, I envy you a lot!
With no actual 'diaphragm' there is absolutely no mass to slow things down, nor to cause any colourations due to the type of material used (all of which do have their individual sonic charactistics, however well they are made).
Unfortunately, when I auditioned a pair some years ago, I couldn't live with the ghastly smell of ozone which I believe is an inherent part of the ionisation process.
The sound was out of this world, however, being incredibly clean and fast, and without any harshness being apparent at all.
Regards,
I have 'listened' to many of them, and they have all had some affect on the sound. The problem seems to me to be in the way the contacts come together, and that is why I generally prefer switches of the rotary 'wiping contact' variety that I mentioned before.
At least these switches do self-clean as they operate.
The contact pressure is generally not very high in relays, and even some good quality hermetically-sealed gold contact relays I tried, deteriorated after a while in use, although when new, they seemed quite good.
The only way to be certain, is as I suggested, to carry out a test and see what you can hear.
If you are a perfectionist (like me), I guess having done the test you will probably prefer not to use these relays, unless there is no alternative, because even if you have found some which do sound good when new, there is still the possibility of deterioration with age, and with a sealed relay, you cannot access the contacts to clean them.
I bet those Ionospheres sound wonderful, and in some respects, I envy you a lot!
With no actual 'diaphragm' there is absolutely no mass to slow things down, nor to cause any colourations due to the type of material used (all of which do have their individual sonic charactistics, however well they are made).
Unfortunately, when I auditioned a pair some years ago, I couldn't live with the ghastly smell of ozone which I believe is an inherent part of the ionisation process.
The sound was out of this world, however, being incredibly clean and fast, and without any harshness being apparent at all.
Regards,
Very interesting couple of posts. Agree with all of it, as it directly matches my own experiences.
Two components I've found that are magnetis and still quite nice, are Kiwame carbon film resistors and Russian Military surplus teflon caps.
Cheers
Two components I've found that are magnetis and still quite nice, are Kiwame carbon film resistors and Russian Military surplus teflon caps.
Do you have a source for these where we can get small quantities? All the ones I've got from Farnell/RS and other local suppliers have been magnetic.Bobken said:
Cheers
Hi Brett,
TAB, the manufacturers, do not deal direct with the public, regrettably. They are extremely well made caps, though, and are well worth seeking out for their sonic attributes.
Also, I found that there are no suppliers in the UK who keep these caps in stock, like RS, Farnell, CPC, Arrow, and Rapid etc., which is a real nuisance.
There is a firm in Wales (advised to me by TAB) whose name I don't have in front of me who will order them for you.
When I contacted them, it was clear that they kept none of these sil micas in stock, and I believe they would wish you to order a reasonable quantity of any one value at any time, which didn't suit my needs.
If your requirements are different, at your request, I will happily look up this firm's details, and let you have them.
However, at about this time last year I sent TAB's brochure to Erno Borbely in Germany, following a lengthy email discourse between ourselves on the subject of sil micas and how they sounded.
When Erno last contacted me during this summer, he advised me that he had gone over to keeping TAB's sil micas in his stock in place of the others he used to keep, so you will be able to get some values from him.
I believe Erno has a minimum order value and you would need to ask him about this, but he is a pleasant and very helpful person to deal with, and entirely reliable in my experience.
His email address is: www.borbelyaudio.com and his catalogue is on line as far as I know.
In case you are not familiar with this person, he has written many very good articles in TAA (and its successors), and like me, he had realised that silver micas with magnetic leads didn't sound so good, but, also like me, he found difficulty in sourcing any non-magnetic ones before he knew about TAB.
Regards,
TAB, the manufacturers, do not deal direct with the public, regrettably. They are extremely well made caps, though, and are well worth seeking out for their sonic attributes.
Also, I found that there are no suppliers in the UK who keep these caps in stock, like RS, Farnell, CPC, Arrow, and Rapid etc., which is a real nuisance.
There is a firm in Wales (advised to me by TAB) whose name I don't have in front of me who will order them for you.
When I contacted them, it was clear that they kept none of these sil micas in stock, and I believe they would wish you to order a reasonable quantity of any one value at any time, which didn't suit my needs.
If your requirements are different, at your request, I will happily look up this firm's details, and let you have them.
However, at about this time last year I sent TAB's brochure to Erno Borbely in Germany, following a lengthy email discourse between ourselves on the subject of sil micas and how they sounded.
When Erno last contacted me during this summer, he advised me that he had gone over to keeping TAB's sil micas in his stock in place of the others he used to keep, so you will be able to get some values from him.
I believe Erno has a minimum order value and you would need to ask him about this, but he is a pleasant and very helpful person to deal with, and entirely reliable in my experience.
His email address is: www.borbelyaudio.com and his catalogue is on line as far as I know.
In case you are not familiar with this person, he has written many very good articles in TAA (and its successors), and like me, he had realised that silver micas with magnetic leads didn't sound so good, but, also like me, he found difficulty in sourcing any non-magnetic ones before he knew about TAB.
Regards,
@Bobken,
the thing with the relais is, that I like to have a remote control.
My Relais Volume control works fine but the relais are magnetic.
May be I built a module that is exchangable and put a new one there every year.
Like I have to replace the electrodes once a year in my plasmas...
The ones which I have (diy) , do not produce ozone because it is hot inside the horn.
Which ones did You hear ? I know that the magnat smell.
@Brett
are You really satisfied with the magnetic russians ?
I have non magnetic micas too, very rare
Greetings, Bernhard
the thing with the relais is, that I like to have a remote control.
My Relais Volume control works fine but the relais are magnetic.
May be I built a module that is exchangable and put a new one there every year.
Like I have to replace the electrodes once a year in my plasmas...
The ones which I have (diy) , do not produce ozone because it is hot inside the horn.
Which ones did You hear ? I know that the magnat smell.
@Brett
are You really satisfied with the magnetic russians ?
I have non magnetic micas too, very rare
Greetings, Bernhard
Thanks for the tip about EB. I'll email and ask.Bobken said:
I'm very familiar with Erno's work from having first read articles of his in Audio Amatuer back in about 1980.
Cheers
Brett
REAL COMPARSON TESTS
Hi,
Bob,
The things you talk about remind me a lot of the days of the British audio magazine "Hifi Answers".
In those days (1986 and up) I spent a lot of time in the company of Jimmy Hughes.
We compared solid core versus multistrand wire,spikes under speakers,speaker stands, you name it.
While I generally agree with you on the sound degrading properties of magnetic materials I would not go overboard on all things magnetic.
What is most degrading to the sound is magnetic leadout wires or anything else containing ferrous particles directly in the signal path.
Xformers,be that power or OPTs can sound pretty fantastic as are anode load chokes and IS xformers.
These have their limitations as well of course but this is not related to the fact that they are magnetic as such.
I remember Hi-Fi News had an offering in their "Accessories Club" that helped soak up any magnetic stray fields in xformers.
It came in the shape of a wooden,rectangular housing filled with about 8 pounds of stainless steel laminates.
I had some and used them on OPTs with good success.
And if you have no use for them they still make for a good paperweight.😀
Brett,
Just imagine how good these Kiwames and Teflon caps could have been without the magnetic leadouts...
I know I'm a tease.
Cheers,😉
Hi,
Bob,
The things you talk about remind me a lot of the days of the British audio magazine "Hifi Answers".
In those days (1986 and up) I spent a lot of time in the company of Jimmy Hughes.
We compared solid core versus multistrand wire,spikes under speakers,speaker stands, you name it.
While I generally agree with you on the sound degrading properties of magnetic materials I would not go overboard on all things magnetic.
What is most degrading to the sound is magnetic leadout wires or anything else containing ferrous particles directly in the signal path.
Xformers,be that power or OPTs can sound pretty fantastic as are anode load chokes and IS xformers.
These have their limitations as well of course but this is not related to the fact that they are magnetic as such.
I remember Hi-Fi News had an offering in their "Accessories Club" that helped soak up any magnetic stray fields in xformers.
It came in the shape of a wooden,rectangular housing filled with about 8 pounds of stainless steel laminates.
I had some and used them on OPTs with good success.
And if you have no use for them they still make for a good paperweight.😀
Brett,
Just imagine how good these Kiwames and Teflon caps could have been without the magnetic leadouts...
I know I'm a tease.
Cheers,😉
Hi fdegrove,
Thanks for your comments which are interesting.
I don't say (or at least if I did anywhere, I didn't intend to!) nor even believe that *all* magnetic items must be inherently bad.
What I have said, though, is that my experiences of anything where magnetic materials are used in the construction of components is such that I would avoid them at all costs.
I have yet to come across a 'magnetic' component which I found to sound good when tested in isolation, so my advice is based on caution. Certain well-known effects can be caused by magnets in close proximity with electrical fields, and I would not wish to chance that this could have any adverse affect on the sound.
I believe, without looking back (I don't yet know how to do that without losing what I have just written, and the last time I tried it, I lost over 30 mins of typing!) that I earlier said something to the effect that "one should avoid them unless there is no alternative."
You have taken me back by reminding me about 'Answers', and I still have every copy of that mag from day one to when it became part of What Hi-Fi (I believe).
I recall reading my first review by Martin Colloms on the Goodmans One-ten in the very first issue of 'Answers' on the train on the way back from a hi-fi show in London (Earls Court, I think), and I was very impressed by his standard of writing and the technical details he described!
I also still have the One-Ten I bought as a result of that review, although it has been in the attic for a great many years!
Also, I am familiar with the steel 'brick' you mentioned (I still subscribe to HFN) and have seen them demo'd at Hi Fi shows, although I have not actually used one myself.
However, I would not like to use one of these bricks anywhere near any signal path circuitry in audio systems, which was not what it was designed for, of course.
Steel cases do definitely spoil the sound of audio gear, as I have discovered several times, and there is a thread about the 'sound of enclosures' on the Forum which someone recently referred me to, but which I have not yet had the time to read.
I think you will find that they were intended to be sat on top of mains transformers in equipment to reduce possible stray fields and any vibration caused by transformers, and in this case (where there is no actual signal and the voltage is alternating, anyway, rather than being DC), I wouldn't expect it to be very harmful.
If the brick did cause any deterioration in itself, this would be more than offset, I guess, by the reduction in the harm already being caused by the transformer, which is unfortunately a most unsuitable component to have sitting amongst the rest of the electronic circuitry.
This is the reason why it is also better to house transformers in a separate enclosure from the electronics, as many of the high-end makers do, in spite of the additional costs and complication of an extra enclosure etc.
Finally, a lot more about problems potentially caused by magnetic materials in audio has been highlighted since the days when those bricks were designed, anyway, and I am not so sure that they would be such a popular proposition nowadays.
Regards,
Thanks for your comments which are interesting.
I don't say (or at least if I did anywhere, I didn't intend to!) nor even believe that *all* magnetic items must be inherently bad.
What I have said, though, is that my experiences of anything where magnetic materials are used in the construction of components is such that I would avoid them at all costs.
I have yet to come across a 'magnetic' component which I found to sound good when tested in isolation, so my advice is based on caution. Certain well-known effects can be caused by magnets in close proximity with electrical fields, and I would not wish to chance that this could have any adverse affect on the sound.
I believe, without looking back (I don't yet know how to do that without losing what I have just written, and the last time I tried it, I lost over 30 mins of typing!) that I earlier said something to the effect that "one should avoid them unless there is no alternative."
You have taken me back by reminding me about 'Answers', and I still have every copy of that mag from day one to when it became part of What Hi-Fi (I believe).
I recall reading my first review by Martin Colloms on the Goodmans One-ten in the very first issue of 'Answers' on the train on the way back from a hi-fi show in London (Earls Court, I think), and I was very impressed by his standard of writing and the technical details he described!
I also still have the One-Ten I bought as a result of that review, although it has been in the attic for a great many years!
Also, I am familiar with the steel 'brick' you mentioned (I still subscribe to HFN) and have seen them demo'd at Hi Fi shows, although I have not actually used one myself.
However, I would not like to use one of these bricks anywhere near any signal path circuitry in audio systems, which was not what it was designed for, of course.
Steel cases do definitely spoil the sound of audio gear, as I have discovered several times, and there is a thread about the 'sound of enclosures' on the Forum which someone recently referred me to, but which I have not yet had the time to read.
I think you will find that they were intended to be sat on top of mains transformers in equipment to reduce possible stray fields and any vibration caused by transformers, and in this case (where there is no actual signal and the voltage is alternating, anyway, rather than being DC), I wouldn't expect it to be very harmful.
If the brick did cause any deterioration in itself, this would be more than offset, I guess, by the reduction in the harm already being caused by the transformer, which is unfortunately a most unsuitable component to have sitting amongst the rest of the electronic circuitry.
This is the reason why it is also better to house transformers in a separate enclosure from the electronics, as many of the high-end makers do, in spite of the additional costs and complication of an extra enclosure etc.
Finally, a lot more about problems potentially caused by magnetic materials in audio has been highlighted since the days when those bricks were designed, anyway, and I am not so sure that they would be such a popular proposition nowadays.
Regards,
I ADMIT...I AM AS THICK AS A BRICK
Hi Bob,
Oh,yes I agree with you fully.
May I compliment you on your writing style and knowledge?
We can dig into this further.
No need,I think,to elaborate much further on the bricks we both understand their merit and limitations.
Believe me,from the bottom of my heart I still don't know why I threw these issues out.
Bob,honestly,if you know of a source to find these online I'd be very happy to do some rereading and archiving.
Hell,I even want to pay to access these again.
To me at least it was British intelligence at its' best...too good to last really.
I can tell a lot of stories about my days at "Answers"...those were the days I tell you.
Can you believe that even now,so many a year later we're still discussing things that were common knowledge way back?
Back to the future?
I wonder....
Please feel free to contribute even though it started out as a bit of a joke.
There's much more to discuss surely.
And glad to have you here Bob!
Cheers,😉
Hi Bob,
Oh,yes I agree with you fully.
May I compliment you on your writing style and knowledge?
We can dig into this further.
No need,I think,to elaborate much further on the bricks we both understand their merit and limitations.
Believe me,from the bottom of my heart I still don't know why I threw these issues out.
Bob,honestly,if you know of a source to find these online I'd be very happy to do some rereading and archiving.
Hell,I even want to pay to access these again.
To me at least it was British intelligence at its' best...too good to last really.
I can tell a lot of stories about my days at "Answers"...those were the days I tell you.
Can you believe that even now,so many a year later we're still discussing things that were common knowledge way back?
Back to the future?
I wonder....
Please feel free to contribute even though it started out as a bit of a joke.
There's much more to discuss surely.
And glad to have you here Bob!
Cheers,😉
Re: I ADMIT...I AM AS THICK AS A BRICK
But they brainwashed me into becoming a Flat Earther.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Toodlepip
I used to subscribe to Hi Fi Answers back in high school. All things considered, it wasn't a bad magazine at all.fdegrove said:
But they brainwashed me into becoming a Flat Earther.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Y'know, the older I get, the less surprised I am by the tendency for people to simply abandon or throw away the 'old' whenever something new comes along. Sort of like a bunch of lemmings rushing blindly towards the abyss. The thing that really piqued my interest in tubes again, was Lynn Olson's <a href="http://www.aloha-audio.com/library/index.html">Library</a> which contained too much common sense and nearly forgotten wisdom to be ignored.
Ditto, I've enjoyed your posts.
Toodlepip
Ok, may be I will use the Nais S2 and throw all magnetic stuff out on eBay.
What exactly makes for the negative effect of the magnetic materials ?
Do the magnetic leads just have higher inductance ?
Or is it a problem when a conductor, also a pur copper conductor find itself in a static magnetic field ?
Or when the conductor which contains iron is magnetized ?
Some say, Amps sound better after demagnetizing.
Does the effeckt increas with the "affected" electrode area ?
Caps have very large electrodes...
Yes, I would like to know why I can not use my Siemens Styroflex hermetically sealed aerospace caps....
Greetings, Bernhard
What exactly makes for the negative effect of the magnetic materials ?
Do the magnetic leads just have higher inductance ?
Or is it a problem when a conductor, also a pur copper conductor find itself in a static magnetic field ?
Or when the conductor which contains iron is magnetized ?
Some say, Amps sound better after demagnetizing.
Does the effeckt increas with the "affected" electrode area ?
Caps have very large electrodes...
Yes, I would like to know why I can not use my Siemens Styroflex hermetically sealed aerospace caps....
Greetings, Bernhard
Bernhard said:
Hi Bernhard,
I had intended to come back to you after your last post, but got involved in several others which took up my spare time!
From my point of view, the honest answer is that I simply don't know! Having exposed my shortcomings in such a way, I will add that I don't much care either, except for the sake of satisfying my curiosity, which regrettably I don't always have the time to indulge in.
I have already had some adverse comments on the board from a couple of 'Fans' so I am reluctant to provide them with any more childish amusement, but anything I ever state to be facts, will be based on my own knowledge or experience, and I have not come to a definitive conclusion about this 'magnetic' phenomenon.
Also, my memory is not as good about what I learned in the way of theory a long while ago as it might be, and I don't have the time to refresh myself on these matters.
I will offer some comments based purely on guesswork, though, and no doubt if any of these are inappropriate, someone will hastily correct them and make me out to be an idiot!
There are many instances where the proximity of electrical fields to magnetic materials, causes quite a dramatic effect of some kind or other.
Indeed, as I said earlier, this is the principle of conventional speaker drivers, but of course with these you actually want the physical vibration/movement here to make the resulting sound.
Moving on more into the guesswork area, I dimly recall sitting in school (nearly 50 years ago) twisting my thumb and first two fingers into certain shapes at right-angles to each other to indicate which way some movement (?) would occur - "Flemings right (or left, or both!!) Hand Rule", it was called!
This exercise was certainly something to do with the passage of electrical currents and the resultant fields, but I am not entirely sure whether magnetism entered the picture here.
If I was more concerned about the theory, I would spend the time on research into this to see if my memory is playing me tricks, or whether any such phenomenon could have any bearing on this issue, or whether it is a complete "red herring".
(Secretly, I am hoping that in their zeal to be destructive about my comments, one of my recently acquired 'Fans' will do this work for me, and save me the trouble!)
Seriously, if anyone who is involved in electromagnetics and who reads this would be kind enough to add to this, or correct me or whatever, I would be very grateful.
Anyway, whatever the reasons are for this effect, the fact remains that, subjectively, all of the magnetic components (I mean like resistors, caps, switches, relays etc. *not* transformers, cartridges, or moving coil speakers) I have carried out individual listening tests on, seem to exibit a strange 'gritty' sound which I don't like.
As this distortion, or whatever it is, is not dissimilar to the ill-effects caused by vibration in similar components, I cannot help but wonder if the alternating signals passing through them are exciting the device in some way physically.
In other words, it is self-induced rather than externally excited vibration, but the effect is likely to be much the same. Quite what the relationship with any magnetic leads or cases, or whatever is here, I don't know, but with the same combination of some movement and a magnetic field it could be generating a minute unwanted non-linear 'signal', which was not there in the first place.
It may surprise you to know that quite a few individual electronic components can be felt to physically vibrate (sort of in time with the music) if you have a sensitive touch, and this is not always apparently due to airborne or floor induced feedback from the speakers.
Try it sometime, when you are operating some gear with lid off.
Of course, avoid the mains/PS area, but rest a finger very lightly and gently on each of several signal path components when the music is playing quite loudly.
Sometime, I would really like to try a stethoscope on some of these 'singing' components to see (or rather hear) if there is any effect.
Why I don't think it is externally excited, is that the surrounding board and other components usually don't do the same, or I can't feel it the same, which they surely would do if this vibration was due to an outside influence.
I do hope that one day we will all know the true causes of this particular problem, but in the meantime, I will merely respect what I have discovered (even though I don't presently understand it!) and try to avoid it at all times.
Now I know precisely why you wish to use these relays, it doesn't seem as if you have much alternative, but, if it was me, to avoid any paranoia and sleepless nights, I would carry out a careful listening test as I have described.
I would always rather know exactly what 'I am up against' in life, because you have much better mental control where facts are concerned than with worries which can grow out of all proportion!
If you do the suggested listening test to put your mind at rest, you can easily exaggerate any ill-effects in a case such as this by trying several of the relay contacts in series, as any abberations are then likely to be multiplied up by the number contacts used.
Moving on to more interesting things (at least, for me!) those speakers are unbelievable. I am very much impressed!
The pair I heard a long while ago were called Ionophanes, I believe, but again my recall might not be exact here. As I said before, my recall of the wretched ozone smell is every bit as good as if I heard (and smelled!) them today.
They look to be a terrific bit of engineering, and I would love to hear some more details about them, like their basic principles of operation (what actually ionises the air?), how you came to make them and, more importantly, how you accumulated the knowledge to make such adventurous drivers.
Regards,
Re: I ADMIT...I AM AS THICK AS A BRICK
Hi Frank,
Taking some of your points in order:
Thank you for the comments about what I have said.
Perhaps my one regret in this area is that I am too long in the tooth to be familiar with all of these abbreviations and current buzzwords or whatever, which means that when I look back at my posts compared with most others, they do seem very 'wordy'. No wonder it takes me so long to type them!
Also, I still haven't worked out all of the mnemonics or whatever they are called, like IMHO (although I have guessed that one from the context) nor all of the protocols involved, and wonder if there is any information on this anywhere to help me?
I could never get the hang of text messaging, as the end of the world would probably come before I had finished one!
It isn't deliberate, but my lack of brevity results from my old-fashioned upbringing/education, together with later experiences about being thorough in everything I do. I will try to improve, but, believe me, it takes me a helluva lot longer for me to type these posts, than it does for anyone to read them!
I hope I do have some worthwhile actual experiences to share with the other members, but I will always recommend that everyone should find out for themselves by doing their own trials, as I have done.
If I can stimulate someone into 'having a go' in the first place, then it will be worthwhile making the effort from my point of view.
John Linsley Hood, who I became well acquainted with over the years, said that I always made him think when we had any discussion, but he also said I reminded him of an amateur brain surgeon!
In fact I might have had a go at that as well but for the fact that I couldn't find any victims to practice on!
One of the saddest things about life to me is the indoctrination which is rife from schooldays onward, that only the experts can do any these things.
Believe me, being born during the last World War had some benefits (not many!) since the resources for anything were abysmal to non-existent, so if you wanted *anything*, you had to make it somehow.
In some ways, this was the best start I could have had because it taught me that with a bit of determination, some patience, care, and a little common-sense, you can achieve almost anything if you want it badly enough.
Amongst other things I have successfully designed and built cars, houses, and all manner of other unlikely things which I shouldn't bore you with, and I only started out doing so, because I couldn't buy what I was after, either because it was unavailable or too costly.
Probably nearly 40 years ago, I started 'tinkering' with audio gear for the same reasons, and there isn't much in this line that I have'nt either built, or heavily modified, since then.
I have to say that it is definitely the most rewarding of all my pursuits, and I cannot see anything else ever taking over from this.
Briefly, on the 'bricks' and a comment of yours in the 'sound of enclosures' thread (which I have now read, and realise it was rather tongue-in-cheek) most stainless steel is actually non-magnetic, believe it or not, in case you didn't know.
This is why I said somewhere on this board that I would avoid steel enclosures, except those made of S/S.
I apologise if I have been "teaching you to suck eggs" and if your stated wish that "steel could be non-magnetic" was in jest, but with that comment, together with your stating that the 'brick' was made of S/S in a thread about magnetic effects, I wondered if you really were aware of that fact.
Going on to the 'Answers' question, I don't know of any online version, I am sorry to say.
However, I do have all copies in my possession (in good condition) but I wouldn't part with them for the world.
I certainly couldn't arrange for them to be scanned, myself, so I don't know what to say, and I would not be happy to send them all over to Belguim either, unless there was some guarantee over their safe return.
However, if you have any suggestions on this, I will readily consider them, as I don't wish to seem obstructive.
Just remember that I value them just as much as (if not more than) you do, and we both know that they are irreplaceable!
There is a very great deal more to discuss, (time permitting) as you say, but this will do for now.
Thanks for the welcome message.
Regards,
fdegrove said:
Hi Frank,
Taking some of your points in order:
Thank you for the comments about what I have said.
Perhaps my one regret in this area is that I am too long in the tooth to be familiar with all of these abbreviations and current buzzwords or whatever, which means that when I look back at my posts compared with most others, they do seem very 'wordy'. No wonder it takes me so long to type them!
Also, I still haven't worked out all of the mnemonics or whatever they are called, like IMHO (although I have guessed that one from the context) nor all of the protocols involved, and wonder if there is any information on this anywhere to help me?
I could never get the hang of text messaging, as the end of the world would probably come before I had finished one!
It isn't deliberate, but my lack of brevity results from my old-fashioned upbringing/education, together with later experiences about being thorough in everything I do. I will try to improve, but, believe me, it takes me a helluva lot longer for me to type these posts, than it does for anyone to read them!
I hope I do have some worthwhile actual experiences to share with the other members, but I will always recommend that everyone should find out for themselves by doing their own trials, as I have done.
If I can stimulate someone into 'having a go' in the first place, then it will be worthwhile making the effort from my point of view.
John Linsley Hood, who I became well acquainted with over the years, said that I always made him think when we had any discussion, but he also said I reminded him of an amateur brain surgeon!
In fact I might have had a go at that as well but for the fact that I couldn't find any victims to practice on!
One of the saddest things about life to me is the indoctrination which is rife from schooldays onward, that only the experts can do any these things.
Believe me, being born during the last World War had some benefits (not many!) since the resources for anything were abysmal to non-existent, so if you wanted *anything*, you had to make it somehow.
In some ways, this was the best start I could have had because it taught me that with a bit of determination, some patience, care, and a little common-sense, you can achieve almost anything if you want it badly enough.
Amongst other things I have successfully designed and built cars, houses, and all manner of other unlikely things which I shouldn't bore you with, and I only started out doing so, because I couldn't buy what I was after, either because it was unavailable or too costly.
Probably nearly 40 years ago, I started 'tinkering' with audio gear for the same reasons, and there isn't much in this line that I have'nt either built, or heavily modified, since then.
I have to say that it is definitely the most rewarding of all my pursuits, and I cannot see anything else ever taking over from this.
Briefly, on the 'bricks' and a comment of yours in the 'sound of enclosures' thread (which I have now read, and realise it was rather tongue-in-cheek) most stainless steel is actually non-magnetic, believe it or not, in case you didn't know.
This is why I said somewhere on this board that I would avoid steel enclosures, except those made of S/S.
I apologise if I have been "teaching you to suck eggs" and if your stated wish that "steel could be non-magnetic" was in jest, but with that comment, together with your stating that the 'brick' was made of S/S in a thread about magnetic effects, I wondered if you really were aware of that fact.
Going on to the 'Answers' question, I don't know of any online version, I am sorry to say.
However, I do have all copies in my possession (in good condition) but I wouldn't part with them for the world.
I certainly couldn't arrange for them to be scanned, myself, so I don't know what to say, and I would not be happy to send them all over to Belguim either, unless there was some guarantee over their safe return.
However, if you have any suggestions on this, I will readily consider them, as I don't wish to seem obstructive.
Just remember that I value them just as much as (if not more than) you do, and we both know that they are irreplaceable!
There is a very great deal more to discuss, (time permitting) as you say, but this will do for now.
Thanks for the welcome message.
Regards,
WHILE I'M STILL READING....
Hi Bob,
Acronyms...well they do take some getting used to.
I remember it took me a while to figure them out as well but once you're familiar with them they do make for a lot less typing.
Here's a link to one of those sites where you can look up their meaning:
ACRONYM FINDER
I'll comment on the rest of your post later on.
Cheers,😉
Hi Bob,
Acronyms...well they do take some getting used to.
I remember it took me a while to figure them out as well but once you're familiar with them they do make for a lot less typing.
Here's a link to one of those sites where you can look up their meaning:
ACRONYM FINDER
I'll comment on the rest of your post later on.
Cheers,😉
ANSWERS
Hi,
No need to apologise.
I have a tendency to try to make people think when I post something.
One reason I do not object to the use of S/S chassis is exactly that.
It provides good RF shielding if not the lowest impedance groundplane.
If RF is not an issue I'd rather use copper...sounds better too.
Sure,I wasn't suggesting you'd send them over...I know I wouldn't.
In the future I plan to replace most of my audio library with digital copies,if only to get some more space on the shelves.
Cheers,😉
Hi,
No need to apologise.
I have a tendency to try to make people think when I post something.
One reason I do not object to the use of S/S chassis is exactly that.
It provides good RF shielding if not the lowest impedance groundplane.
If RF is not an issue I'd rather use copper...sounds better too.
Sure,I wasn't suggesting you'd send them over...I know I wouldn't.
In the future I plan to replace most of my audio library with digital copies,if only to get some more space on the shelves.
Cheers,😉
- Status
- Not open for further replies.