I have a question for everyone with "maggies" does anyone have a start to finish build? with pictures.... I recieved a magazine showing the top twenty most best speakers ever built, ESL's, and Maggie's were among the top.
Any links would be nice, i cannot find any data on buiding one, i know it is there, but a picture is worth a thousand words.
I have plenty of magnets from feild destroy woofers. guess i should take take some pics and will post those tomorrow. Kind regards. Mavric
Any links would be nice, i cannot find any data on buiding one, i know it is there, but a picture is worth a thousand words.
I have plenty of magnets from feild destroy woofers. guess i should take take some pics and will post those tomorrow. Kind regards. Mavric
Mavric,
I've read the above and I "think" I understand what you're asking...maybe.
It's somewhat hard to fathom your meaning with the poor grammar, spelling mistakes, lack of capitalization and word usage. These forums are about Audio, not English Grammar, but to effectively communicate and to convey your meaning to those reading this, just makes it a whole lot easier for those who may be able to help you.
An example is the rather obtuse phrase: "plenty of magnets from feild destroy woofers."
As I believe that your intent was to ask how one builds a magnaplaner speaker, you should initiate a search for past threads before you start a new one.
Magnapans are a manufactured speaker with an excellent, well deserved reputation that can be purchased for fairly reasonable prices. They may not be easy to clone, however.
Good Luck!
Best Regards,
TerryO
I hadn't seen that site before. It's a nice one though, and a good bit of information for Mavric's project.
Best Regards,
TerryO
Magneplanar, some background information
I think I can help, although some of this may be lost in translation as English does not seem to be the OP's first language, but anyway here goes.
Magnepan speakers or as they market them Magneplanar are composed of a planar magnetic pole piece with a tensioned diaphragm of Mylar in front of the magnets to which a voice coil of Aluminum wire is adhered; please see the original United States patent by James “Jim” Winey, #3,674,946 and #3,919,499 and #4,210,786 also see US patent #4,319,096 for the true ribbon tweeter. Available free online (in the Public Domain) in PDF format at Patent Searching and Inventing Resources if link is missing that's www (dot) freepatentsonline (dot) com then a forward slash / and then just add the patent number of interest after with a .pdf extension, such as ELECTROMAGNETIC TRANSDUCER
First up the pole piece; it is composed of a perforated steel sheet 14” wide and up to 60” in height, with approximately 30% open area, to which is attached the vertical array of strip magnets. The magnets and adhesives used were all sourced from 3M, (Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing Co.) hence the three M, corporation name. Jim Winey, the founder and inventor of the Magnepan speaker line back in 1969, had worked for 3M and had business contacts with key industry personnel, thus his use of the 3M products for the manufacturing of his Magnepan speakers. The long strip magnets used were the 3M brand Plastiform a flexible magnetic material somewhat like an industrial version of a refrigerator magnet. They are not the brittle ferrite ceramic magnets as used in conventional speaker drivers. The magnet strips are as long as the steel panel is tall, depending on the model in question, approximately four to five feet in height; that is to say 48” to 60” (inches) long, 150 centimeters in length. There are twenty to thirty strips required to cover each steel panel. The magnets are magnetized thru the thickness of the material which is only about 3/16” thick and 1/4” in width and 48” to 60” long. In metric, that is about 5 millimeters thick, 6 to 7 millimeters wide and up to 150 centimeters in length for each of the thirty strips. The perforations in the steel plate are between the magnets, a series of vertical columns of holes. The magnets are arrayed in alternating poles such that North is facing out for one strip then South facing out for the next, then North, then South and so on across the width of the panel. The spacing or gap between the magnet strips is 2 to 3 millimeters, about one tenth of an inch.
The diaphragm is made of heat shrinkable Mylar film in a thickness of 0.005”, metric is 0.127 millimeters thick, also known as Mylar HS-55 film. The Mylar film is attached and tensioned to a frame in front of the magnets much like a drum skin. The tensioning of the Mylar varies across the panel to distribute the low frequency resonance of the diaphragm and to improve the bass response.
The voice coil is a fine gauge magnet wire the size of which varied from model to model over the years but a good estimate to go by would be around 24 gauge for the bass panels, 28 gauge for the midrange panels and 30 to 32 gauge for the high frequency tweeter panels. The magnet wire used was copper in the early days for the bass panels, then later aluminum wire was used and recently aluminum foil for the quasi-ribbon models. The wire or aluminum foil strip is attached to the surface of the Mylar film with a 3M adhesive; pre EPA formulation 3M “77” adhesive used the good for Mylar, but bad for humans Cyclohexane as a solvent, the post EPA clean air 3M “Super 77” adhesive uses Acetone instead which is bad for Mylar film over time; (a possible substitute here is 3M contact cement). The wires are run vertically up and down the panel in between the magnets such that the wire as attached to the Mylar is directly in front of the perforated holes in the steel plate and in-between each of the alternating North then South magnet strips. The entire diaphragm of Mylar film and magnet wire is then coated with a thin layer of a water based polyester urethane “Milloxane Latex” to dampen the breakup resonances in the panel. They sometimes substituted 3M's NF-30 for this purpose. The Milloxane is sourced from “Polyurethane Specialties Company, Inc. Lyndhurst, New Jersey USA”
A side note here, Milloxane is sensitive to UV light, extreme cold, and especially to high humidity, so if you live in a non-temperate climate you will have problems with it.
You may find that the cost of the materials to DIY a panel exceeds the price of a used pair of Magnepans. It certainly does so here in the United States where an older Magnepan such as the MG-I or SMG or even a “Tympani 1D” can sometimes be found for a couple hundred US dollars or much less; which is less than the purchase cost of the steel plates, magnets, Mylar film, magnet wire and adhesives all told.
Hope this is of some help or at least provides some background information.
I think I can help, although some of this may be lost in translation as English does not seem to be the OP's first language, but anyway here goes.
Magnepan speakers or as they market them Magneplanar are composed of a planar magnetic pole piece with a tensioned diaphragm of Mylar in front of the magnets to which a voice coil of Aluminum wire is adhered; please see the original United States patent by James “Jim” Winey, #3,674,946 and #3,919,499 and #4,210,786 also see US patent #4,319,096 for the true ribbon tweeter. Available free online (in the Public Domain) in PDF format at Patent Searching and Inventing Resources if link is missing that's www (dot) freepatentsonline (dot) com then a forward slash / and then just add the patent number of interest after with a .pdf extension, such as ELECTROMAGNETIC TRANSDUCER
First up the pole piece; it is composed of a perforated steel sheet 14” wide and up to 60” in height, with approximately 30% open area, to which is attached the vertical array of strip magnets. The magnets and adhesives used were all sourced from 3M, (Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing Co.) hence the three M, corporation name. Jim Winey, the founder and inventor of the Magnepan speaker line back in 1969, had worked for 3M and had business contacts with key industry personnel, thus his use of the 3M products for the manufacturing of his Magnepan speakers. The long strip magnets used were the 3M brand Plastiform a flexible magnetic material somewhat like an industrial version of a refrigerator magnet. They are not the brittle ferrite ceramic magnets as used in conventional speaker drivers. The magnet strips are as long as the steel panel is tall, depending on the model in question, approximately four to five feet in height; that is to say 48” to 60” (inches) long, 150 centimeters in length. There are twenty to thirty strips required to cover each steel panel. The magnets are magnetized thru the thickness of the material which is only about 3/16” thick and 1/4” in width and 48” to 60” long. In metric, that is about 5 millimeters thick, 6 to 7 millimeters wide and up to 150 centimeters in length for each of the thirty strips. The perforations in the steel plate are between the magnets, a series of vertical columns of holes. The magnets are arrayed in alternating poles such that North is facing out for one strip then South facing out for the next, then North, then South and so on across the width of the panel. The spacing or gap between the magnet strips is 2 to 3 millimeters, about one tenth of an inch.
The diaphragm is made of heat shrinkable Mylar film in a thickness of 0.005”, metric is 0.127 millimeters thick, also known as Mylar HS-55 film. The Mylar film is attached and tensioned to a frame in front of the magnets much like a drum skin. The tensioning of the Mylar varies across the panel to distribute the low frequency resonance of the diaphragm and to improve the bass response.
The voice coil is a fine gauge magnet wire the size of which varied from model to model over the years but a good estimate to go by would be around 24 gauge for the bass panels, 28 gauge for the midrange panels and 30 to 32 gauge for the high frequency tweeter panels. The magnet wire used was copper in the early days for the bass panels, then later aluminum wire was used and recently aluminum foil for the quasi-ribbon models. The wire or aluminum foil strip is attached to the surface of the Mylar film with a 3M adhesive; pre EPA formulation 3M “77” adhesive used the good for Mylar, but bad for humans Cyclohexane as a solvent, the post EPA clean air 3M “Super 77” adhesive uses Acetone instead which is bad for Mylar film over time; (a possible substitute here is 3M contact cement). The wires are run vertically up and down the panel in between the magnets such that the wire as attached to the Mylar is directly in front of the perforated holes in the steel plate and in-between each of the alternating North then South magnet strips. The entire diaphragm of Mylar film and magnet wire is then coated with a thin layer of a water based polyester urethane “Milloxane Latex” to dampen the breakup resonances in the panel. They sometimes substituted 3M's NF-30 for this purpose. The Milloxane is sourced from “Polyurethane Specialties Company, Inc. Lyndhurst, New Jersey USA”
A side note here, Milloxane is sensitive to UV light, extreme cold, and especially to high humidity, so if you live in a non-temperate climate you will have problems with it.
You may find that the cost of the materials to DIY a panel exceeds the price of a used pair of Magnepans. It certainly does so here in the United States where an older Magnepan such as the MG-I or SMG or even a “Tympani 1D” can sometimes be found for a couple hundred US dollars or much less; which is less than the purchase cost of the steel plates, magnets, Mylar film, magnet wire and adhesives all told.
Hope this is of some help or at least provides some background information.
Correction to Magnepan post
Correction: I should have said the magnet strips are 3/32” thick, about two and one half millimeters in metric; and they are thinner for the tweeters and thicker for the bass panels. They varied from model to model, but between 1/16” up to 3/16” thickness, in metric 1.5 to 4.5 millimeters.
Correction: I should have said the magnet strips are 3/32” thick, about two and one half millimeters in metric; and they are thinner for the tweeters and thicker for the bass panels. They varied from model to model, but between 1/16” up to 3/16” thickness, in metric 1.5 to 4.5 millimeters.
Thanks
Thanks, cfb, for the insight. I have my ESL hybrids and was just reading posts about full range panels. I guess I am not as coherant on posting or my spelling may be a bit off as i type in the dark. But, thank you for taking the time to explain the pro's and con's of building one yourself. Best information without being tooled about how I post. no bad feelings Terry0. We are all human.
I guess, this post has no meaning here. move it, but please keep the feedback from cfb on the mechanical nature and expence of building a magnaplaner, very inciteful. I know I will save it. and btw, i do not prefer using caps on typing as some people find that very offensinve.
Kind Regards
Mav🙂
Thanks, cfb, for the insight. I have my ESL hybrids and was just reading posts about full range panels. I guess I am not as coherant on posting or my spelling may be a bit off as i type in the dark. But, thank you for taking the time to explain the pro's and con's of building one yourself. Best information without being tooled about how I post. no bad feelings Terry0. We are all human.
I guess, this post has no meaning here. move it, but please keep the feedback from cfb on the mechanical nature and expence of building a magnaplaner, very inciteful. I know I will save it. and btw, i do not prefer using caps on typing as some people find that very offensinve.
Kind Regards
Mav🙂
Informative posts, just what I needed.
How does the ribbon tweeter work?
Why are Apogee full range ribbon speakers so much heavier?
How does the ribbon tweeter work?
Why are Apogee full range ribbon speakers so much heavier?
Hopefully cfb has made you understand that "DIY'ing" some Maggie drivers is probably not a feasible proposition - and, anyway, would not be cost-effective (in terms of the machinery & time it would take to do this, compared to eBay prices for old Maggies).
However, think about this:
* when people talk about DIYing a speaker, they talk about getting some drivers from a speaker driver manufacturing company ... and then putting them in a box or baffle that they have made themselves, and adding a XO.
IE. they don't actually DIY the drivers! 😱
There is certainly a lot of potential for getting hold of some used Maggies and putting in your time & effort to make them sound a lot better. Visit the Planar Asylum here, to find out these stories:
The Planar Speaker Asylum
With my last pair of MG-IIIAs, I basically just kept the 3 drivers ... and threw everything else away! 😀 My current Magneplanars are unique in the sense that they are a "mongrel", created by combining drivers from 2 different, superseded models. What this gives me is a 3-way, true-ribbon Maggie having the mid panel isolated from the bass panel. Only the old Tympani IVas had this advantage.
I also drive them 3-way active (instead of using the passive XOs).
So if you like DIYing and want some fantastic-sounding speakers, refurbishing a pair of Maggies is a great way to go. 🙂
Regards,
Andy
The Maggie "true-ribbon" tweeter is a 'concertina-ed' strip of very thin aluminium foil 4 or 5mm wide ... and, supposedly, "thinner than a butterfly's wings"! 🙂 It's about 1.5m longth (some old models, the 2.5 & the 2.6, had a ribbon which was only about 1m long). It's a dipole - the ribbon & magnet assembly sits in a 'cage' which has horizontal bars at the front (which hold the 2 sides together) and a clear back.
The foil is suspended between 2 magnet strips, one each side; there's about a 1mm airgap either side of the ribbon and dobs of silicon glue about every 60mm anchor the ribbon to the magnet strips.
Regards,
Andy
Interesting, the Apogee tweeters are wider and the ribbon don't seem to be anchored every 60mm so it swings serveral mm like a woofer.
Then there are the tweeters on the same sheet like the SMG that are one sided not true ribbon. I bet they sound a lot worst than a silk dome tweeter.
Sounds similar to my Carver Amazing Platinums with 60" ribbons.
I often thought about building my own ribbons as the construction is pretty simple, but getting the right magnets at a decent cost is the challenge.
I lost my hearing
Serious, lost 100% hearing in my left ear. no one knows the cause, other than that it is my head, there is no tumor, but the explanation is clear. This can happen to anybody at anytime(i am 33), and just woke up, went to work and over about a week, no hearing. Its not wax or anything, an MRI was needed which show the doc diagnosis, "sudden hearing loss." treatment,"infussion for sudden hearing loss." I know I am splurging here, but audio is how i make a living, and audio is all i know. I dont know if i will post as I really cannot give any advice or ask for help. BTW, does anyone wana buy my esl hybrids with amps and all???hee, just kidding, its against the rules to sell or whatever on a post.
If my hearing comes back, i cannot wait, otherwise, keep posting, i like reading anyway.
>it really sucks not to hear,Mavric.
Serious, lost 100% hearing in my left ear. no one knows the cause, other than that it is my head, there is no tumor, but the explanation is clear. This can happen to anybody at anytime(i am 33), and just woke up, went to work and over about a week, no hearing. Its not wax or anything, an MRI was needed which show the doc diagnosis, "sudden hearing loss." treatment,"infussion for sudden hearing loss." I know I am splurging here, but audio is how i make a living, and audio is all i know. I dont know if i will post as I really cannot give any advice or ask for help. BTW, does anyone wana buy my esl hybrids with amps and all???hee, just kidding, its against the rules to sell or whatever on a post.
If my hearing comes back, i cannot wait, otherwise, keep posting, i like reading anyway.
>it really sucks not to hear,Mavric.
That's terrible to hear, Mavric. 🙁 But think on the bright side ... you only need to spend your money on a mono system - half as expensive as a stereo system! 🙂
My commiserations.
Andy
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