I want to build a high efficiency horn enclosure such as the Lowther Fidelio, but have paused to reflect on the price of DX and EX Lowther drivers 300 - 750 GB Pounds compared to Fostex
FE208E Sigma 150.00 (additional tweeter- T90A- probably required + another 115 Pounds ) or, for instance FE206E - 75.00 Pounds All the speakers mentioned here are in the region of 96/97 dB efficient. It probably stands to reason that the Lowthers will sound better to most ears, but can anyone who has compared them - in the flesh- venture an opinion? Say on a scale of one to ten, --where one is barely discernable difference, to ten, which would be a vast difference and mean that the Lowther is worth every penny of its substantial price.
Also, if there are other highly efficient full range drivers suitable for a horn enclosure please let me know.!
Efficiency is important since they will be driven from a 3 Watt 2A3 amp.
FE208E Sigma 150.00 (additional tweeter- T90A- probably required + another 115 Pounds ) or, for instance FE206E - 75.00 Pounds All the speakers mentioned here are in the region of 96/97 dB efficient. It probably stands to reason that the Lowthers will sound better to most ears, but can anyone who has compared them - in the flesh- venture an opinion? Say on a scale of one to ten, --where one is barely discernable difference, to ten, which would be a vast difference and mean that the Lowther is worth every penny of its substantial price.
Also, if there are other highly efficient full range drivers suitable for a horn enclosure please let me know.!
Efficiency is important since they will be driven from a 3 Watt 2A3 amp.
I have, and I can recommend the Lowthers without hesitation.
The Fostex is nice product, and certainly less expensive, but
it's pretty easy to let a properly done set of Lowthers grow on
you. My favorites are still the PM6A with the 16 ohm silver voice
coils and the Ticonal/Alnico magnets.
😎
The Fostex is nice product, and certainly less expensive, but
it's pretty easy to let a properly done set of Lowthers grow on
you. My favorites are still the PM6A with the 16 ohm silver voice
coils and the Ticonal/Alnico magnets.
😎
I have just stumbled onto details of the AUDIO NIRVANA range of efficient speakers. www.commonsenseaudio.com They don`t seem to think much of horn enclosures which I find interesting! Has anyone any comments regarding these drivers vs Lowther, which incidently, seem to be more expensive here in their country of manufacture, than in the US!
I'm sitting here listening to a pair of MJK's small OB's (15A + 108ez). They give me enormous pleasure every time I listen to them at home. Behind them, in the corners of the room, is a pair of Delphics with EX3 + PM2. I haven't listened to these (which I bought new 15 years ago) since building the OBs.
The OBs are driven by a 2a3 SE in a relatively small room, and I listen at relatively low levels (<90db).
If you listen at higher levels and in a large room, and aren't bothered by the poor bass performance, you might like a Fidelio. Otherwise (IMHO), look elsewhere.
Rgds
The OBs are driven by a 2a3 SE in a relatively small room, and I listen at relatively low levels (<90db).
If you listen at higher levels and in a large room, and aren't bothered by the poor bass performance, you might like a Fidelio. Otherwise (IMHO), look elsewhere.
Rgds
TEXAS TOMM said:
IMO Fostex drivers knock the socks off of comparable AN drivers. Likewise, Lowther drivers are better than comparable Fostex. Implementation is everything, though. There are some really bad Lowther speakers out there that give the drivers an undeservedly bad reputation.
Bob
marec said:
Most Lowther speakers are poorly conceived BLH/TL's that try to preserve the 95dB/w/m sensitivity of the bare driver as low as possible and wind up with shouty mids, lumpy mid-bass and F3 around 60Hz. Since I accept rather limited overall SPL, I get good, balanced response down to the high 30's in a simple MLTL. For higher overall SPL, there has been a lot of discussion lately about 2-way speakers that use the FR driver as a mid-tweet. I really believe that this is the right approach. Lowther drivers shine above 300Hz. Why try to use them at 30Hz where they suck? Now if I could only find the sub that fits my space.
Bob
I've considered MLTLs for the lowthers, but having heard some Fostex based ones, I can't live with the resonant boxes after listening to OBs.
Also OBs are SIGNIFICANTLY easier to build (esp. if you are considering a Fidelio!)
The bass quality from an OB has a naturalness I've not encountered elsewhere.
I've built OBs around a Lowther and 2 * 15A, which sounded nice, but weren't domestically acceptable and used a behringer xo plus two stereo power amps.
Back to MJK's mini OBs.... (Total cost for a pair? less than DX4s, that's for sure! Maybe £240 + xovers)
Rgds
Also OBs are SIGNIFICANTLY easier to build (esp. if you are considering a Fidelio!)
The bass quality from an OB has a naturalness I've not encountered elsewhere.
I've built OBs around a Lowther and 2 * 15A, which sounded nice, but weren't domestically acceptable and used a behringer xo plus two stereo power amps.
Back to MJK's mini OBs.... (Total cost for a pair? less than DX4s, that's for sure! Maybe £240 + xovers)
Rgds
Are there plans anywhere for the Mini fe108 OB's? I went to the projects section but couldn't find it... Dave🙂
I have been using a pair of 206E's in the 208Sigma BLH (Fostex) cabinet for about 18 months. About 6 months ago I chanced upon a pair of PM6C's for a good price. Sadly they do not really suit the Fostex cabinet, but sounded very good.
I love the combo of the 206's and the 208 cabinet. The cabs are as solid as a rock and I do not detect any resonances whatsoever. They are built with Birch ply and the sides are 36mm. They weigh 10 stone each! These are fun with a capital F. If you love music and not hifi, these are for you.
I love the combo of the 206's and the 208 cabinet. The cabs are as solid as a rock and I do not detect any resonances whatsoever. They are built with Birch ply and the sides are 36mm. They weigh 10 stone each! These are fun with a capital F. If you love music and not hifi, these are for you.
DaveCan said:
Hi Dave
I haven't looked for several months (guess why!) but the baffle I've built is a straight take-off of Martin's smallest project from the "Open Baffle Theory" section of his website.
Do it! You'll be pleased!
Rgds
Edit:
See http://www.quarter-wave.com/OBs/OB_Design.pdf
>>> Implementation is everything...
I agree with Bob.
I have heard Lowthers in Rethm cabs a few years ago. They sounded great! But nothing about them made me want to return my Fostex drivers either. Side by side comparisons may result in a different opinion so i simply do not compare Fostex and Lowther side by side.
Having compared Fostex, Pioneer, RS and some other full range drivers to multi way speakers using Dynaudio, Vifa, Eton and some others i've decided a full range (wide range) driver setup in a balanced system sound better to me overall than multi driver systems using crossovers.
I agree with Bob.
I have heard Lowthers in Rethm cabs a few years ago. They sounded great! But nothing about them made me want to return my Fostex drivers either. Side by side comparisons may result in a different opinion so i simply do not compare Fostex and Lowther side by side.
Having compared Fostex, Pioneer, RS and some other full range drivers to multi way speakers using Dynaudio, Vifa, Eton and some others i've decided a full range (wide range) driver setup in a balanced system sound better to me overall than multi driver systems using crossovers.
TT - FWIW I don't have anything like the experience, of hearing different designs, of some of the good folks around here! I am, however, the very proud owner of a pair of Lowther EX2's sitting in my own build Bicor 200 enclosures. I have a fairly small listening room and dislike high volume anyway, but this combination can be exhilerating. And is the one recommended to me by Lowther, when i purchased the drivers. The sound is not perfect, (what is?), but if you like speed, clarity, dynamics etc, etc ...... and can live with slightly less bass than would be perfect, they are just wonderful. The Bicor 200 is a relatively easy build and will allow you to get in a bit of practice before attempting something more challenging.
Guys, please feel free to shout at me - but having seriously considered the Fidelio as an upgrade to the Bicor 200, I don't think the design would significantly improve on the overall sound of the Bicors, for a much more detailed build. It is still the same fundamental design.
One thing I really wanted to say was if you do go for Lowthers there are very few, if any, diy designs around the web specifically for the EX range of drivers! At least none that my hours of searching have revealed! DX and PM6 seem to be far more popular
But, I do love mine!
Guys, please feel free to shout at me - but having seriously considered the Fidelio as an upgrade to the Bicor 200, I don't think the design would significantly improve on the overall sound of the Bicors, for a much more detailed build. It is still the same fundamental design.
One thing I really wanted to say was if you do go for Lowthers there are very few, if any, diy designs around the web specifically for the EX range of drivers! At least none that my hours of searching have revealed! DX and PM6 seem to be far more popular
But, I do love mine!
not Fostex, not Lowther...
but maybe some Visaton B200s? More money than some of the Fostex,
less than the Lowthers, can work in an OB, or BF, reportedly great sound for the $$$. 96 dB efficiency.. (read the link for full factory specifications), can go quite high in frequency (perhaps no need for a tweeter).
It would be interesting to hear a pair of planet10 modified ones ....as a minimum get ye some phase plugs...
I have no personal stake in suggesting these, but nor do I have any personal experience with them.
If I could find a way to increase the efficiency of the Jordan JX92S speakers, that'd be my current pick.
Hmmm... maybe kill off some old drivers, add the magnets , re-shield them....ah, to dream, a high efficiency Jordan!
stew
but maybe some Visaton B200s? More money than some of the Fostex,
less than the Lowthers, can work in an OB, or BF, reportedly great sound for the $$$. 96 dB efficiency.. (read the link for full factory specifications), can go quite high in frequency (perhaps no need for a tweeter).
It would be interesting to hear a pair of planet10 modified ones ....as a minimum get ye some phase plugs...
I have no personal stake in suggesting these, but nor do I have any personal experience with them.
If I could find a way to increase the efficiency of the Jordan JX92S speakers, that'd be my current pick.
Hmmm... maybe kill off some old drivers, add the magnets , re-shield them....ah, to dream, a high efficiency Jordan!
stew
Godzilla
"i've decided a full range (wide range) driver setup in a balanced system sound better to me overall than multi driver systems using crossovers."
Well you need to play with some time aligned setups (think thiel or vandersteen).....I've learned a bunch with my thiels.
I still think a direct connection to amplifier is best without going through any components. Then you pay your price for bass, midrange detail, and high end.
Active 24db LR crossovers are another way to nirvana allowing time alignment, cleaner output, and way more db's.
I havn't played with lowthers because the price is a bit bigger than I can make a stash.
Good news, I should have dual 4" tang band bamboo ready to hear in a few weeks. Like the omega minuet model.
Norman
"i've decided a full range (wide range) driver setup in a balanced system sound better to me overall than multi driver systems using crossovers."
Well you need to play with some time aligned setups (think thiel or vandersteen).....I've learned a bunch with my thiels.
I still think a direct connection to amplifier is best without going through any components. Then you pay your price for bass, midrange detail, and high end.
Active 24db LR crossovers are another way to nirvana allowing time alignment, cleaner output, and way more db's.
I havn't played with lowthers because the price is a bit bigger than I can make a stash.
Good news, I should have dual 4" tang band bamboo ready to hear in a few weeks. Like the omega minuet model.
Norman
Re: not Fostex, not Lowther...
Indeed a very nice driver... especially after graham or i are done with them... efficiency is somewhat optimistic
Measured average of 8 drivers:
Fs 50.37
Re 4.75
Qms 9.99
Qes 1.08
Qts 0.97
Vas 71.38
Mms 9.75
Sd 222
dB 91.37
Cms 1.03E-06
BL 3.69
dave
Nanook said:
Indeed a very nice driver... especially after graham or i are done with them... efficiency is somewhat optimistic
Measured average of 8 drivers:
Fs 50.37
Re 4.75
Qms 9.99
Qes 1.08
Qts 0.97
Vas 71.38
Mms 9.75
Sd 222
dB 91.37
Cms 1.03E-06
BL 3.69
dave
marec said:
Apologies for this nonsense. At 90db, I'd be facing divorce! Please read this as <80db.
Senior moment I guess....
Rgds
for what it's worth,...
YMMV (your mileage may vary).
Dave's info is based on actual measurements of an actual speaker driver. Not sure if he still has them, but he did a year or so ago. Dave leaves nothing to chance, and measures (and matches as best he can) drivers in pairs.
The published specifications may follow a particular testing regime, and most likely are accurate based on that regime. So don't hate (all) manufacturers, if we haven't all read the fine print on the specifications sheets.
Although some makers are notorious about how erroneous their specifications are compared to measured parameters.
stew
YMMV (your mileage may vary).
Dave's info is based on actual measurements of an actual speaker driver. Not sure if he still has them, but he did a year or so ago. Dave leaves nothing to chance, and measures (and matches as best he can) drivers in pairs.
The published specifications may follow a particular testing regime, and most likely are accurate based on that regime. So don't hate (all) manufacturers, if we haven't all read the fine print on the specifications sheets.
Although some makers are notorious about how erroneous their specifications are compared to measured parameters.
stew
- Status
- Not open for further replies.