I'll be building myself a pair of The-Loudspeaker-III designed by Troels Gravesen in the near future.
It's an efficient set of speakers, rated at 92db, and it requires 15W per channel. The subwoofer part is active, powered by an Hypex FA251, and fed from the crossover.
I'm wondering if going down the tube amp road is worthwile. I figured that, as it doesn't require a lot of power, it might just be possible to build a nice, quality tube amp for them. Any recommendations or any pointers would be really welcome!
It's an efficient set of speakers, rated at 92db, and it requires 15W per channel. The subwoofer part is active, powered by an Hypex FA251, and fed from the crossover.
I'm wondering if going down the tube amp road is worthwile. I figured that, as it doesn't require a lot of power, it might just be possible to build a nice, quality tube amp for them. Any recommendations or any pointers would be really welcome!
Thanks I'll check that out!
Kit or proven design, I just don't want to foray into the unknown with tubes.
This may not be exactly what you are looking for, but I finished a pair of Troels' MUN-17 speakers in the summer and I am really happy with how they sound. Like a lot of Troels' bigger designs (including your TLS-III), this uses a Hypex plate amp for the woofer, and I use Kevin Kennedy's push-pull 25-30W 300B monoblocks for the mid-treble. This is a differential circuit with zero loop NFB, and works wonderfully in this configuration, where it didn't suit my previous speakers (Troels' SEAS 3-way Classics) so well, sounding quite loose in the bass.
The 300B amps have proven completely reliable (apart from a couple of arcing GZ34 rectifiers) for well over ten years now, and are almost completely silent.
Alex
The 300B amps have proven completely reliable (apart from a couple of arcing GZ34 rectifiers) for well over ten years now, and are almost completely silent.
Alex
That looks really enticing. I couldn't find any price estimate for the whole build though, but just glancing at it makes me feel like this will be way above my price point sadly.
How much did the build cost you?
Another thing I'd like to ask you, as you own one of TG's design that's similar to the one I'll end up with – and that's a stupid question, but mind you I'm merely in beginner in this world of audio – Is the Hypex plate completely responsible to bass frequencies? Meaning, will using different amps provide different bass response, or will the Hypex always behave the same regardless?
After looking around, I figured I might go for a Tubelab SE build. Everybody seems really happy about theirs, let's hope it pairs well with my LS-III.
Calmant,
Power required will also depend on room size (small bedroom or barn) and type of music (chamber music or concert-level Hendrix) you listen to. What is your budget? The 15 watt spec is likely an absolute minimum. When you say "kit" do you want it all to come in one box or would you be willing to buy a circuit board and source the parts from various vendors?
Cheers, Steve
Power required will also depend on room size (small bedroom or barn) and type of music (chamber music or concert-level Hendrix) you listen to. What is your budget? The 15 watt spec is likely an absolute minimum. When you say "kit" do you want it all to come in one box or would you be willing to buy a circuit board and source the parts from various vendors?
Cheers, Steve
Yes, sorry, I should have been clearer.
My room is a small room (around 16 square meters), so I will pretty much always listen at low to medium volume. (I was looking for a speaker that had great low volume performance).
I mainly listen to electronic music, with *some* thumping bass, but usually more subtle stuff. A lot of jazz, a lot of post-rock, some krautrock. A lot of piano also. I do enjoy blasting a good old Shine On You Crazy Diamond from time to time but that's about it.
Seeing how I'm sinking so much money in building these speakers, I'd like to keep my budget around 500$ to start. It would be great if I could upgrade the amp as I go.
I'm more than willing to buy a circuit board and slowly source parts and components.
A small Push-Pull amp maybe?
SET amps can imply some big ($$$) output transformers. I've built a couple of Tube Lab SPP (push-pull) EL84 amps. The OPTs for push-pull are typically smaller (so less $) than you would need for a SET amp. Even then you will have difficulty with a $500 budget. At least the tubes, EL84 (x4), ECC81 (x2) and GZ34 (x1) won't be that expensive. Both for initial build and re-tubing.
Don't cheap-out on transformers, output especially. Though something like Lundahls or Sowters would be nice, you would use around half of your budget on two transformers. I don't know about mainland Europe but some fairly inexpensive transformers are available from Primary Windings in the UK.
Cheers, S.
Primary Windings – Quality British Transformers and Chokes
SET amps can imply some big ($$$) output transformers. I've built a couple of Tube Lab SPP (push-pull) EL84 amps. The OPTs for push-pull are typically smaller (so less $) than you would need for a SET amp. Even then you will have difficulty with a $500 budget. At least the tubes, EL84 (x4), ECC81 (x2) and GZ34 (x1) won't be that expensive. Both for initial build and re-tubing.
Don't cheap-out on transformers, output especially. Though something like Lundahls or Sowters would be nice, you would use around half of your budget on two transformers. I don't know about mainland Europe but some fairly inexpensive transformers are available from Primary Windings in the UK.
Cheers, S.
Primary Windings – Quality British Transformers and Chokes
Second using EL84s, I'm really enjoying my PoddWatt (PP class A) which I built recently but it did cost £600. A third of the cost was on the Encor transformers, coming from the USA via Germany!
Logic880,
Edcors, the shipping is killer, even to Canada. The homeys at Hammond do decent trannies. Not the ultimate but very good for the price and the shipping is reasonable. The two least expensive Shindos use Hammond OPTs! I've built two Tubelab SPPs. The one using old Heathkit iron was pretty good but the one built with new Hammond trannies had noticeably better mids and highs.
S.
Edcors, the shipping is killer, even to Canada. The homeys at Hammond do decent trannies. Not the ultimate but very good for the price and the shipping is reasonable. The two least expensive Shindos use Hammond OPTs! I've built two Tubelab SPPs. The one using old Heathkit iron was pretty good but the one built with new Hammond trannies had noticeably better mids and highs.
S.
Bias Mod.
The, sadly discontinued, Dynaclone board from DIYTube offered a bias adjustment circuit that I've used on several EL84 builds. It adjusts the cathode resistance using a trimmer pot. The fairly low current of an EL84 makes this possible using a low wattage trimmer. It's easy to balance the current draw measuring across the 10 ohm resistor.
S.
The, sadly discontinued, Dynaclone board from DIYTube offered a bias adjustment circuit that I've used on several EL84 builds. It adjusts the cathode resistance using a trimmer pot. The fairly low current of an EL84 makes this possible using a low wattage trimmer. It's easy to balance the current draw measuring across the 10 ohm resistor.
S.
Attachments
I see. I thought I could get away with building the SE for an initial investment of around 500-600$.
Are there significant differences betwen the SE and the SPP in terms of sound and upgradability? What I'm looking for is detail across the range and bass capability.
If there's a significant difference, I won't mind taking a little longer to build a much better amp. I don't intend on building new amps all the time, I'd like to get something great straight away, if that makes sense.
That's good to know, I was wondering where to get fancy transformers in europe. You don't have any issues running these on 220V outlets?
An Alternative?
There's an EL84 kit on eBay for about $340 US.
13W*2 6P14/EL84 Push-pull HiFi Class AB Stereo Tube Integrated Amplifier DIY KIT | eBay
XrayTonyB on YouTube did a 3 part build and test series. There a couple of mods he does that are near essential.
Vacuum Tube Push-Pull Amplifier Kit - Part 1 - YouTube
Getting Edcor transformers shipped to Europe would be horrendously expensive. Sourcing a Euro-built (or British 🙂) would be less expensive or you could get better quality for the same money than buying an Edcor. I have a bit of a hate-on for Edcor due to their expensive shipping charges and the fact that they won't consider using other less expensive carriers.
Cheers, Steve
There's an EL84 kit on eBay for about $340 US.
13W*2 6P14/EL84 Push-pull HiFi Class AB Stereo Tube Integrated Amplifier DIY KIT | eBay
XrayTonyB on YouTube did a 3 part build and test series. There a couple of mods he does that are near essential.
Vacuum Tube Push-Pull Amplifier Kit - Part 1 - YouTube
Getting Edcor transformers shipped to Europe would be horrendously expensive. Sourcing a Euro-built (or British 🙂) would be less expensive or you could get better quality for the same money than buying an Edcor. I have a bit of a hate-on for Edcor due to their expensive shipping charges and the fact that they won't consider using other less expensive carriers.
Cheers, Steve
Poland to rescue. This Toroidy offering will be just fine for PP EL84 "finals". A quick check indicates 58 euros plus shipping is the purchaser's cost per transformer.
Here is another option
I'm wondering if going down the tube amp road is worthwile. I figured that, as it doesn't require a lot of power, it might just be possible to build a nice, quality tube amp for them. Any recommendations or any pointers would be really welcome![/QUOTE]
Tube amps are the best option. I own 271 tube amps myself which many are mono blocks and tube receivers and integrated amps. Vintage iron to is the best way to go IMHO and integrated tube amps like the Sherwood S-5000 and the Scott 222C are both very nice amps when you recap them and do a few mods and then you have a preamp as well built right in.
Here is the other option and it's very popular and a very good amp and designed by Eli Duttman and it's called an ELcheapo. Whats great about it is, you can build on to it and I used a film cap power supply in mine. You can build this amp with tubes like a 6v6 or a 6AQ5 or an EL84 and you have one Dynamite little amp that will really be fun and the sound will amaze you.
Parts are easy to source and the most difficult part would be cutting holes in the chassis but even that isn't bad. You can buy chassis cheap on Ebay or DIY audio and then just buy a chassis punch.
El Cheapo, builders thread
I'm wondering if going down the tube amp road is worthwile. I figured that, as it doesn't require a lot of power, it might just be possible to build a nice, quality tube amp for them. Any recommendations or any pointers would be really welcome![/QUOTE]
Tube amps are the best option. I own 271 tube amps myself which many are mono blocks and tube receivers and integrated amps. Vintage iron to is the best way to go IMHO and integrated tube amps like the Sherwood S-5000 and the Scott 222C are both very nice amps when you recap them and do a few mods and then you have a preamp as well built right in.
Here is the other option and it's very popular and a very good amp and designed by Eli Duttman and it's called an ELcheapo. Whats great about it is, you can build on to it and I used a film cap power supply in mine. You can build this amp with tubes like a 6v6 or a 6AQ5 or an EL84 and you have one Dynamite little amp that will really be fun and the sound will amaze you.
Parts are easy to source and the most difficult part would be cutting holes in the chassis but even that isn't bad. You can buy chassis cheap on Ebay or DIY audio and then just buy a chassis punch.
El Cheapo, builders thread
Attachments
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