Hello everyone. So here I go. So I am looking at a few full range drivers and adding a tweeter with a simple cap ( so a 6 db crossover ). I have a few questions that need to be addressed? Or please enlighten me so I understand ( to much mombo jumbo ) out there. So here are the questions?
1. How can a tweeter sound faster then another? ( I have read it in post and magazines for years? Hmmm? Does it have to do with it's ( qts )? Like a few people have told me over the years?
2. Where do I get a soft dome or silk dome tweeter that are not treated with a sticky coating? ( They are dust magnets and with a dusty house this would not work for me).
3. If I spend $100.00 each on the drivers should I buy $100.00 tweeters to match it? Or am I wrong?Also does the ( DB ) on the driver need to match the tweeters
DB?
So the reason am going with silk domes or soft domes is because I enjoy they way they sound. I have tried horns,ribbons,metal,titanium,and soft dome, and silk dome, and pezio and paper tweeters. My favorite is the silk but,there is not much available today? Thanks for everyone's help. Cheers Jeff
1. How can a tweeter sound faster then another? ( I have read it in post and magazines for years? Hmmm? Does it have to do with it's ( qts )? Like a few people have told me over the years?
2. Where do I get a soft dome or silk dome tweeter that are not treated with a sticky coating? ( They are dust magnets and with a dusty house this would not work for me).
3. If I spend $100.00 each on the drivers should I buy $100.00 tweeters to match it? Or am I wrong?Also does the ( DB ) on the driver need to match the tweeters
DB?
So the reason am going with silk domes or soft domes is because I enjoy they way they sound. I have tried horns,ribbons,metal,titanium,and soft dome, and silk dome, and pezio and paper tweeters. My favorite is the silk but,there is not much available today? Thanks for everyone's help. Cheers Jeff
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I think it's bunk. 😉
If you are listening to something that is playing 6,000 cycles....then at that frequency, one tweeter is just as fast as another since by definition, they're both playing 6,000 cycles, right?!
If one played faster, it would be playing a higher frequency.
Beyond that, I'll let others answer your questions....that's my take on "fast" drivers.
You made some great points on how can a tweeter sound faster. It makes sense. Thanks for your insights. Jeff
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cheap, small diameter tweeters (kind with little diffusor plate in front which doubles to protect the dome) often play higher and have better off axis power than larger diameter domes - so may make more sense number and money wise as so called "helper tweeters" Some people are happy with big holes in the power response as long as a fullrange sounds decent to them on or slightly off axis.
No, this actually isn't the right place.. I'll move the discussion to the multiway forum where it belongs.
So are you saying that buying a small tweeter is better then a reg. Size tweeter? How about a car tweeter ? Would that work? Jeff
1"How can a tweeter sound faster then another" - the concept is meaningless
2😀ayton, Vifa, Peerless
3: "$100" No, you buy the tweeter that is the best match for your mid/woofer
"( DB ) on the driver need to match" - no the usual practise is to bring down the tweeter level with an L pad
2😀ayton, Vifa, Peerless
3: "$100" No, you buy the tweeter that is the best match for your mid/woofer
"( DB ) on the driver need to match" - no the usual practise is to bring down the tweeter level with an L pad
A tweeter with more distorsion will probably sound "faster" in some ears as it produces signals that is of a higher frequency than what is being played. This distorting tweeter will actually output faster rising signal than one without the distorsion. Fast is a really problematic description of sound.
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Think of it in terms of "dynamic expression". The ability to trace the leading edge of a transient. Sure, the term, "Fast, this, or that" is an over used term, especially when it's called "fast bass". Tweeters do indeed sound different from one another---for a variety of reasons, but they also tend to fall into class types. But, even within the class of dome tweeters, there are differences, and the choices are often a matter of taste. I happen to really like the VIFA silks. Moving into the class of ribbon tweeters, is another ball game. JUST because it's a ribbon does not mean it's going to automatically be better than a dome, but the very best of ribbons are. Often times, they require much more fiddling in the crossover, to sound right. Then, there is the big boy class --- the high efficiency bunch. This is vast step up, and chock full of variation. JUST because it's a horn, does not mean it's great. But a great sounding horn WILL INDEED have the ability to trace the leading edge, and offer the dynamic expression approaching live acoustical music.
And, to wrap up, sure, it's a pretty good idea to match the efficiencies of the drivers used in a total speaker system. Does not have to be matched to 1 db, but somewhere in the general ball park is a good idea.
This thread might help folks comprehend a little better.
Interesting formula quote in post #16.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/34789-spl-function-speed-acceleration-2.html
edit: Jeff, Seas Prestige fabric dome tweeters that I have built with, appeared not to be prone to dust collecting.
Interesting formula quote in post #16.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/34789-spl-function-speed-acceleration-2.html
edit: Jeff, Seas Prestige fabric dome tweeters that I have built with, appeared not to be prone to dust collecting.
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Thanks that was one of the questions I asked. I will look into that seas tweeter. Thanks Jeff
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Update; I just found out I could get my hands on a free brand new pair of peerless ( use to be Vifa ) ring radiator tweeters. The model number is; XT25BG06-04 1" inch tweeters. The paprr driver that I am using sounds dark and warm. The driver is 93 DB and the tweeter is 92.4 DB and the woofer is 8 ohms and the tweeter is 4 ohms. Will this work? Also it will save me with shipping over $100.00 bucks. This makes the wife happy less money to spend or should I buy the seas tweeters? Thanks Jeff
Although I haven't had those particular Peerless/Vifa tweeters, I've been a big fan of Peerless and Vifa for many years. Seas is one of the best too, but a bit expensive. Getting the crossover right may make a bigger difference, than the diff. between those two tweeters. I wouldn't worry about the less than a dB efficiency difference. If possible, measure the acoustic frequency response of each driver by itself, after the crossover is hooked up, to verify that the crossover is actually doing what you want it to do. If that looks good, then hook up both drivers at the same time. Driver impedances vary significantly with frequency. An "8 ohm" driver might be 15 ohms at the frequency you wanted to cross it over at. I use pink noise, a calibrated mic and an RTA. You could also use a slow swept sinewave and a cheap Radio Shack calibrated mic, but know that its not real accurate at the higher frequencies (maybe above about 5kHZ - they might be better now days). But maybe useful enough for getting your crossover function verified.
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I agree about the crossover being right. I haven't put any funds a side for measuring equipment. I have a woofer tester #2 and a few box design programs. So I can measure the drivers and the tweeters when I get them on the woofer tester #2 but other then that I will have to ask for everyone's help on the forum. I have a design I would like to tackle? The shape and design? But, who knows if it will turn out right? I am not trying to copy a speaker company's design but, I have always enjoyed how these speakers sounded and looked in person. I have heard them a few time and if I could afford it I would have bought me a pair and never went into diy my own speakers. Thanks Jeff
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I'm a fan of the Peerless by Tymphany XT25BG60-04 for $35 they are a great value. I like them crossed around 2K, although others have crossed them lower.
Best to look for design that uses the XT with a specific woofer. The other option is to simulate a x-o with traced frequency response files.
Best to look for design that uses the XT with a specific woofer. The other option is to simulate a x-o with traced frequency response files.
The 92dB Vifa XT25BG60-04 is the big magnet brother of the 90dB Vifa XT25TG30-04.
They are almost identical to the 92dB Scanspeak R2604 8330 and 90dB Scanspeak R2604 8320 respectively. Of course, Tymphany own the Vifa brand.
Which means almost any design for any of these tweeters can be adapted to your XT25BG60. You might add a ohm or two in front of the tweeter filter to quieten the output if the design is for the quieter ring radiators.
Really that easy. DIY-Loudspeakers
There are LOADS of designs for these tweeters. 🙂
They are almost identical to the 92dB Scanspeak R2604 8330 and 90dB Scanspeak R2604 8320 respectively. Of course, Tymphany own the Vifa brand.
Which means almost any design for any of these tweeters can be adapted to your XT25BG60. You might add a ohm or two in front of the tweeter filter to quieten the output if the design is for the quieter ring radiators.
Really that easy. DIY-Loudspeakers
There are LOADS of designs for these tweeters. 🙂
I have the tweets already measured and in a crossover simulation file if you'd like. Check the links here:
https://speakermakersjourney.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-lm-1-bookshelf-version.html
https://speakermakersjourney.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-lm-1-bookshelf-version.html
All the better for you two if you can have a pair of tweeters for free. Should work ok with a 93 dB woofer, for it's very likely specified for half space radiation meaning you'll lose some of the dB once in a cabinet and open space. Can you disclose the make of the woofer?
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