How much are you going to pay for them? What are you going to do with them?
You can use the PM6C just about anywhere that you would use the FE207E. IMO it's better than the FE207E, not nearly as good as the DX2. I feel that it is on a par with the W8-1772, but the sound is entirely different.
The first question you need to ask yourself is whether you like the Lowther sound. Some folks like them, some don't, but nobody is on the fence. It is strictly love/hate.
Secondly. can you really afford Lowther? Buying a C series Lowther is like buying a C series Mercedes. It sort of says you can't afford a real one. When asked my opinion of Lowther, I always say don't play around. Get a DX3 or an A series.
Bob
It is interesting you say this I believe that the speaker profile determines the type of sound of the speakers, profile I mean the following:
1. Distortion distribution(quantity and distribution of 2nd, 3rd and higher harmonics) of the driver and not the only most important factor,
2. What it is made of paper, metallic, etc,
3. General construction of the driver, coil, magnet used(alnico, etc)
There could more factors which I am not be aware of(I am not a driver expert like Zaph and others).
So, Bob, are the upper range Lowthers to your ears clearly superior speakers to the other offerings in the full range world, or is it more complex than that? I just got my Tang Bands in, but I'm wondering if this is just the crack cocaine that will lead me to the harder stuff later. I'm kinda hoping you'll say something like "the Lowthers have some advantages, but in the right design other speakers can sound better".
I like where this is going.
Yea, I just can't fathom more than a grand for a pair of 8" full rangers, I just can't wrap my mind around it.
Bob, can you explain how the w8-1772 is on par but entirely different than the pm6c ?
The 1772 is about as much as I can swallow.
I've been debating between the unreleased alpair 10, the fostex fe166e, the w8-1772, and lastly the pm6c.
I'm usually against whizzers, I assume the intelligibility is as good as a full range driver compared to any 2-way.
Norman
Yea, I just can't fathom more than a grand for a pair of 8" full rangers, I just can't wrap my mind around it.
Bob, can you explain how the w8-1772 is on par but entirely different than the pm6c ?
The 1772 is about as much as I can swallow.
I've been debating between the unreleased alpair 10, the fostex fe166e, the w8-1772, and lastly the pm6c.
I'm usually against whizzers, I assume the intelligibility is as good as a full range driver compared to any 2-way.
Norman
You could give the Fostex FE168SigmaES a try and may not want an upgrade in a long time. There was a vote taken recently for peoples preference of a Full Range and this driver got quite a few votes, including that of Nelson Pass.
168ez, what's with that 9db peak from 6 to 8khz ? not sure i could listen to that stock.
is the 1772 better than the 166e ?
Norman
is the 1772 better than the 166e ?
Norman
I believe that the Lowther DX3 has the best detail of anything in the price range or lower. I don't have a lot of experience with the A series drivers, but we are all familiar with the presumed magical properties of AlNiCo. Feastrex has the current claim to the world's most expensive drivers at $69K a pair. The only Feastrex I have heard were D5n's, but either the implementation was horrible or the speaker/room interaction was most unfortunate.
The TB 1772's are fine speakers. I like them. I prefer them for most music. But they sound very different from the Lowther DX3, and the sound of the DX3 on the right music is jaw dropping. But if I were you, I'd search out a pair of your proposed drivers in a similar implementation before I dropped $1000/1500 on them.
Bob
Well, you need to hear both drivers to decide the issue. The Lowther is lighter and more airy, the TB is warmer and has more guts. But if you can't afford the price of admission, it becomes a moot point. I will say that with a jazz trio or a string quartet, the sound of the DX3 is mesmerizing. But the DX3 doesn't do Pink Floyd, the TB does.
OK, but what do you intend to do with them? What kind of music are you interested in? What kind of box will you build? Also, the Alpair 10 is a 5"er, the 166e a 6"er and the 1772 and pm6c are 8"ers.
?
Bob
ah, thanks bob.
from roy johnson (green mountain audio) on whizzers
AudiogoN Forums: Time coherence - how important and what speakers?
"If it has a whizzer cone for the highs, like a Lowther, then there is a time-delay (phase shift) between cone and whizzer, seen as a wiggle in the driver's impedance curve. At that mechanical crossover frequency, the idea is that the cone stops moving as the whizzer starts moving.
Yet the amount of time delay between those two parts is far more than some electrical crossovers would've imposed. Even as the whizzer moves, the cone is also breaking up- parts of it "rattle on" in non-pistonic motion, so the phase change is not smooth with frequency.
Finally, since the forward edge of the whizzer is un-terminated (not damped or otherwise constrained), it has its own breakup modes. Which makes complex, loud, high tones sound hazy, fizzy, fuzzy or dirty (depending on the whizzer's breakup modes)...... If it has a whizzer cone for the highs, like a Lowther, then there is a time-delay (phase shift) between cone and whizzer, seen as a wiggle in the driver's impedance curve. At that mechanical crossover frequency, the idea is that the cone stops moving as the whizzer starts moving.
Yet the amount of time delay between those two parts is far more than some electrical crossovers would've imposed. Even as the whizzer moves, the cone is also breaking up- parts of it "rattle on" in non-pistonic motion, so the phase change is not smooth with frequency.
Finally, since the forward edge of the whizzer is un-terminated (not damped or otherwise constrained), it has its own breakup modes. Which makes complex, loud, high tones sound hazy, fizzy, fuzzy or dirty (depending on the whizzer's breakup modes)."
but
"What those drivers offer is minimal phase shift in their mid-bands- which is good. But neither one can handle low bass, nor is very sensitive."
I do like pink floyd and nine inch nails (run wide open with bass support).
80hz f-mod rolls in nice like baffle step / loudness button to my dual 4" in a box with an 8" wide baffle.
Sometimes I'll run active crossover but I like to cross near the baffle step -3db.
But I prefer to run the full range wide open and keep volume below impressive levels.
so the 1772 I may get very very soon.
Thanks again.
Norman
from roy johnson (green mountain audio) on whizzers
AudiogoN Forums: Time coherence - how important and what speakers?
"If it has a whizzer cone for the highs, like a Lowther, then there is a time-delay (phase shift) between cone and whizzer, seen as a wiggle in the driver's impedance curve. At that mechanical crossover frequency, the idea is that the cone stops moving as the whizzer starts moving.
Yet the amount of time delay between those two parts is far more than some electrical crossovers would've imposed. Even as the whizzer moves, the cone is also breaking up- parts of it "rattle on" in non-pistonic motion, so the phase change is not smooth with frequency.
Finally, since the forward edge of the whizzer is un-terminated (not damped or otherwise constrained), it has its own breakup modes. Which makes complex, loud, high tones sound hazy, fizzy, fuzzy or dirty (depending on the whizzer's breakup modes)...... If it has a whizzer cone for the highs, like a Lowther, then there is a time-delay (phase shift) between cone and whizzer, seen as a wiggle in the driver's impedance curve. At that mechanical crossover frequency, the idea is that the cone stops moving as the whizzer starts moving.
Yet the amount of time delay between those two parts is far more than some electrical crossovers would've imposed. Even as the whizzer moves, the cone is also breaking up- parts of it "rattle on" in non-pistonic motion, so the phase change is not smooth with frequency.
Finally, since the forward edge of the whizzer is un-terminated (not damped or otherwise constrained), it has its own breakup modes. Which makes complex, loud, high tones sound hazy, fizzy, fuzzy or dirty (depending on the whizzer's breakup modes)."
but
"What those drivers offer is minimal phase shift in their mid-bands- which is good. But neither one can handle low bass, nor is very sensitive."
I do like pink floyd and nine inch nails (run wide open with bass support).
80hz f-mod rolls in nice like baffle step / loudness button to my dual 4" in a box with an 8" wide baffle.
Sometimes I'll run active crossover but I like to cross near the baffle step -3db.
But I prefer to run the full range wide open and keep volume below impressive levels.
so the 1772 I may get very very soon.
Thanks again.
Norman
You might check out what Bob uses. Drivers from Planet 10 are reasonable, especially from a cost / performance pov. Dave's eN drivers will play anything with clarity and great depth of tonal information.
My personal favorite in Lowther's is the PM6A 16 ohm with silver voice coil. They have a 3mm X max and this helps with dynamics, quite a bit. You could contact Jon Ver Halen at Lowther America and ask him if he will sell you his EnABL'd Pm6A's. Once treated, they were very musical, very dynamic and without shout or shriek.
Bud
My personal favorite in Lowther's is the PM6A 16 ohm with silver voice coil. They have a 3mm X max and this helps with dynamics, quite a bit. You could contact Jon Ver Halen at Lowther America and ask him if he will sell you his EnABL'd Pm6A's. Once treated, they were very musical, very dynamic and without shout or shriek.
Bud
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