I am preparing to upgrade my HD600's to HD800S and my LittleDot MkII to a Bottlehead Crack.
First question: I know the Crack pairs well with the HD600, is it similarly good with the 800?
Second question: Are there mods I should consider, parts I should order separately, or generally ways to augment the kit?
Thanks!
First question: I know the Crack pairs well with the HD600, is it similarly good with the 800?
Second question: Are there mods I should consider, parts I should order separately, or generally ways to augment the kit?
Thanks!
Seconding the CCS upgrade option. I had both HD600 and HD800 with Crack+Speedball, but wasn't too impressed all things considered. Yes it pairs just as well, but HD800 is far superior in technicalities and is less forgiving of poor signal chain, you might still like it though.
I ended up listening to them mostly with LuDEF during winter (though that's a speaker amp, and wasting 200W to deliver 50mW isn't terribly efficient), and experimenting with various others during summer.
This thread might be entertaining for you to read, though most stuff there is in the kilobuck range. https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/best-amps-for-hd800s-2023-edition.13859/
I ended up listening to them mostly with LuDEF during winter (though that's a speaker amp, and wasting 200W to deliver 50mW isn't terribly efficient), and experimenting with various others during summer.
This thread might be entertaining for you to read, though most stuff there is in the kilobuck range. https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/best-amps-for-hd800s-2023-edition.13859/
This is good information, thanks guys! I'm happy to consider alternatives. A kit amp would be fun, but my primary goal is to get the best sound quality (considering that I like tubes and a bit of warmth, so "best" is not necessarily "most accurate"). Another amp I've bene considering is the Quicksilver Headphone Amp - has good reviews, but that's all I know.
I figured if I wanted something flat and accurate as a reference, I'd get a Schiit Asgard 2.
I figured if I wanted something flat and accurate as a reference, I'd get a Schiit Asgard 2.
Great list, thank you!! Sorry to double post, I just now finished reading that thread. Unfortunately, most of their recommendations either cost more than my truck, or are unavailable, or both. They do like the Mjolnir 3, which was on my list, but I figured if I was going to spend that much I'd rather get tubes, and if I wanted a SS class A I'd get an Asgard and assume it wasn't 10x worse than a Mjolnir.
What about the Bottlehead Mainline 1.1? Looks like a much more sophisticated amp compared to the Crack.
jeff
jeff
IMHO holy grail for HD800's might be some sort of DHT tube setup. Notice it is by no coincidence the guy in the thread also rates them the highest on the list, its just that commercial DHT amps are in the kilobuck range. Add a hybrid mu follower and you can actually drive 300ohm loads somewhat decently, especially if you pick a nice tube. That's partly why i started my project (search "Spudnik" on DiyA), to explore DHT sound while not spending a small fortune.
Life got in the way of fully completing it (and i got sidetracked), but i've also seen some guy listening on a SIT amp, must be pretty good.
Since you are already wanting to build a kit (crack+speedball), you might do well to look around the forum what's available as a kit (and i dont mean my thingy). You'd be surprised how big of a sound you can get for your money when you're not paying for brand. Those TOTL amps on shelves might have only 200$ worth of parts and most of the cost is in salaries and engineering. Well you get that for "free" here. Even if you dont build HP specific amp, scaling down any of the class A speaker amps (say from Pa or Zen Mod, especially the ones he calls "wakoo", you will not go wrong). If you are a bit electronics savvy, just download LTspice and play with it, ask for advice, be industrious and you will succeed. There are many roads that lead to Rome.
HD800 is an insanely revealing piece of kit and if you pair it right you are sent to a special place (topped only by multi-kilobuck speaker setups). You will be happy with it, don't worry.
Life got in the way of fully completing it (and i got sidetracked), but i've also seen some guy listening on a SIT amp, must be pretty good.
Since you are already wanting to build a kit (crack+speedball), you might do well to look around the forum what's available as a kit (and i dont mean my thingy). You'd be surprised how big of a sound you can get for your money when you're not paying for brand. Those TOTL amps on shelves might have only 200$ worth of parts and most of the cost is in salaries and engineering. Well you get that for "free" here. Even if you dont build HP specific amp, scaling down any of the class A speaker amps (say from Pa or Zen Mod, especially the ones he calls "wakoo", you will not go wrong). If you are a bit electronics savvy, just download LTspice and play with it, ask for advice, be industrious and you will succeed. There are many roads that lead to Rome.
HD800 is an insanely revealing piece of kit and if you pair it right you are sent to a special place (topped only by multi-kilobuck speaker setups). You will be happy with it, don't worry.
@Dendrobium Thank you very much, that was a great, informative, and encouraging comment. I know enough to build kits, and to modify them, but the intricacies of circuit design still allude me. The world of kit amps is somewhat intimidating, because I don't know what all the options are, and I have to take a lot of things on faith. Finding something good on here would be a lot of fun, with a little guidance.
I'm very much looking forward to the HD800s. I auditioned a bunch of cans at a store years ago, and the HD800 stood head and shoulders above everything else. I want an amp that will do it justice.
I'm very much looking forward to the HD800s. I auditioned a bunch of cans at a store years ago, and the HD800 stood head and shoulders above everything else. I want an amp that will do it justice.
You're welcome 🙂
Even since 2009 it holds a special place in high end headphones. Still the king of soundstage in HP world, due to angled drivers interacting with pinna. Natural tambre and very resolving. Many others beat it in other things but as a whole package, it still stands as something special.
If you consider early gen HD800 can be gotten for 500$ used, then modded with super-dupont mod to basically be an HD800S, its not a too bad value, if you're into it (for some buying any headphone above 50$ is bad value). And unlike planars, you can actually drive these with even OTL tube gear (you only need about 20-50mW into 300ohm load since its 102 dB @1mW).
Their biggest drawback imo is frequency response is too sharp for my liking, but easily solved with aformentioned super dupont or just EQ. I had one of the earliest ones which were the most annoying in this regard.
Btw, some people are really crazy about this headphone. Check out the JAR800 guy https://www.jupiteraudioresearch.com/2127851f-d87c-4e88-98e6-7321c4858f8a
He probably spent like 20k$ buying every piece he could find, just to modify them to get what he wants.
Even since 2009 it holds a special place in high end headphones. Still the king of soundstage in HP world, due to angled drivers interacting with pinna. Natural tambre and very resolving. Many others beat it in other things but as a whole package, it still stands as something special.
If you consider early gen HD800 can be gotten for 500$ used, then modded with super-dupont mod to basically be an HD800S, its not a too bad value, if you're into it (for some buying any headphone above 50$ is bad value). And unlike planars, you can actually drive these with even OTL tube gear (you only need about 20-50mW into 300ohm load since its 102 dB @1mW).
Their biggest drawback imo is frequency response is too sharp for my liking, but easily solved with aformentioned super dupont or just EQ. I had one of the earliest ones which were the most annoying in this regard.
Btw, some people are really crazy about this headphone. Check out the JAR800 guy https://www.jupiteraudioresearch.com/2127851f-d87c-4e88-98e6-7321c4858f8a
He probably spent like 20k$ buying every piece he could find, just to modify them to get what he wants.
I really like the papa rusa headphone amp that I built from the wtfamps website. He gives enough details and pictures that it is like making a kit and the amp pairs well with my Grado RS2 and the HD800s. It is a triode amp with simple ccs, 6s45 tubes, and reasonable output capacitors and transformers. I used a commercially available hammond wood chassis and I built the amp and prescribed and it compares very favorably to my other amps and preamps. https://wtfamps.com/papa-rusa-headphone-amplifier/
Having said that, I think the Crack with the CCS upgrade and decent output coupling capacitors will be very fun to build and listen to. As some have said above it was never intended to be completely transparent or flawless but rather warm and tubey. Tinker away!
Having said that, I think the Crack with the CCS upgrade and decent output coupling capacitors will be very fun to build and listen to. As some have said above it was never intended to be completely transparent or flawless but rather warm and tubey. Tinker away!
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My diy experience, no matter what I am making, is so much better than trusting some company out there to choose the parts that they do and then sell the completed unit to you. If you do build the Crack, be sure and use parts that you don't second guess. Sometimes that amounts to getting the 'right' RCA jack instead of the often used cheap jacks that are trouble and finicky from day one. I put connectors, switches and potentiometers high on the list since they all carry this delicate little signal to be amplified. As for the rest, most of what Bottle Head supplies is adequate. If something looks cheap to start with, steer away from it and save yourself the agony down the road.
It has a weird name that reminds me of https://www.minidisc.org/headbanger.html
It does not inspire much confidence
It does not inspire much confidence
"It has a weird name that . . . does not inspire much confidence."
Bottlehead does a lot of things well, but naming its products isn't one of them. For a long time, they used sexual double entendres ("Foreplay," "Quickie," etc); then they turned to drug addiction references ("Crack," "Mainline," etc). Newer kits have better names ("BeePre," "Kaiju") and it's an encouraging trend.
But the kits themselves are solid. For $400 or so, you're not going to find a better sounding amp for Sennheisers than the Crack. Of course, you have to build it yourself, but that's half the fun. If you're looking for tubey warmth, you won't be disappointed.
Bottlehead does a lot of things well, but naming its products isn't one of them. For a long time, they used sexual double entendres ("Foreplay," "Quickie," etc); then they turned to drug addiction references ("Crack," "Mainline," etc). Newer kits have better names ("BeePre," "Kaiju") and it's an encouraging trend.
But the kits themselves are solid. For $400 or so, you're not going to find a better sounding amp for Sennheisers than the Crack. Of course, you have to build it yourself, but that's half the fun. If you're looking for tubey warmth, you won't be disappointed.
I have a limited amount of experience with these products and yet, what I chose to do was 'upgrade' their components and such after having found an uncanny amount of performance with their least expensive kit, the 'Quickie' which is no longer sold. Just a little DHT preamp with a CCS that makes you wonder just how the hell it performs so well. Part of that secret is the simplicity. I went my own way with it (parts and chassis). I can't find the photo that I wanted to share, but this is the basic idea. 6S3 tubes are used in this unit. The Crack is a different story.
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I built one a few years ago. Got all the upgrades. Did the "non-Bottlehead" mods - extra RC stage in the power filtering. Bypassing the output caps with some 5uF pp caps. I did not go for the coke-bottle size output pp caps. The sound to me was still dark with my HD 650s and not much different with my HD 600s.
My end tube selection was a GE 7316 UK and a Russian 54 variant output tube. Lots of tube rolling.
While I didn't build a quickie, those 6S3 tubes are painful to use - I have a preamp with them and they ring even with dampers. A lot of the tubes are flaky out of the box.
Something to consider before the headphone amp is to equalize the signal. RN Marsh recommended it. I've used Solderdude;s designs for my HD 650s in my own DOA variant of his circuits.
There are at least three ways to equalize the signal for the headphones - DSP, use a computer to do so while playing music, a purpose build equalizer - needs at 3 or 4 gain stages - one for low shelving, one for high shelving/buffering, and one or two for peaking/dipping, and the third way is a passive filter on the output of the headphone amp. But that last one requires an impedance output of under 50 ohms.
From looking at the correction curves for the HD 600/650s and the HD 800, it's not really possible to access the sound as they are significantly different, regradless of the amp being used.
My end tube selection was a GE 7316 UK and a Russian 54 variant output tube. Lots of tube rolling.
While I didn't build a quickie, those 6S3 tubes are painful to use - I have a preamp with them and they ring even with dampers. A lot of the tubes are flaky out of the box.
Something to consider before the headphone amp is to equalize the signal. RN Marsh recommended it. I've used Solderdude;s designs for my HD 650s in my own DOA variant of his circuits.
There are at least three ways to equalize the signal for the headphones - DSP, use a computer to do so while playing music, a purpose build equalizer - needs at 3 or 4 gain stages - one for low shelving, one for high shelving/buffering, and one or two for peaking/dipping, and the third way is a passive filter on the output of the headphone amp. But that last one requires an impedance output of under 50 ohms.
From looking at the correction curves for the HD 600/650s and the HD 800, it's not really possible to access the sound as they are significantly different, regradless of the amp being used.
There. That is what I am talking about. The ability to make choices and build a kit like this with your own input and ideas. In the end you hope for the best but have to accept the results in most cases. Some people just to build as directed, but that has never been my way, at least on the second attempt.
If in fact, you can't get close enough to what you are seeking after rolling tubes, you likely are done.
Yes, the 3S4 tubes are somewhat of a novelty. I have gone to extreme attempts to stop or subdue the ringing issue with some of them. Isolation would seem the obvious answer, but it is difficult to do with any tube that has a mess of wires running to it. Maybe having it suspended in Jello.
If in fact, you can't get close enough to what you are seeking after rolling tubes, you likely are done.
Yes, the 3S4 tubes are somewhat of a novelty. I have gone to extreme attempts to stop or subdue the ringing issue with some of them. Isolation would seem the obvious answer, but it is difficult to do with any tube that has a mess of wires running to it. Maybe having it suspended in Jello.
+ Aegis, a bit pricey but you won’t feel the need to upgrade in 6 months. It drives my HD800s, Hifiman HE1000se fine. Tube rotation is fun to tune it for your cans.
Bill
Bill