Hi everyone, this site looks fantastic. So much info, going so far over the top of my head!
I'm setting up a studio, a quite large space with high ceilings, which I am going to be treating to make it a listening room par excellence (hopefully). Lots of trapping, diffusion, broadband absorption etc. However the space is approx 11mx11mx4m so room nodes won't be such an issue.
I really want to build myself because I'm a) interested in learning b) interested in whether I can beat the value of studio monitors. I've also got access to a woodwork shop and my friend who'll build cabinets for free. I've also got a dcx2496, some decent a/d on the way and lots of uber PA power amps lying about. Also got a cambridge audio 6 chan amp (80w pc running 6 chans).
I'm already going to have nearfields in. What I want is something a little bit different, something with a bit of wow factor, that I can still mix/produce on, but will also sound good to people a few feet behind sitting on the sofa. Bass response has to be strong (so I'll need a subwoofer or 8) but also very tight and defined. Percussive and transient response is very, very important. So important I'd even consider horns. They also has to be able to comfortably play pretty loud. Lets say 120db if we can get there.
Budget - £1800 ish.
I'm setting up a studio, a quite large space with high ceilings, which I am going to be treating to make it a listening room par excellence (hopefully). Lots of trapping, diffusion, broadband absorption etc. However the space is approx 11mx11mx4m so room nodes won't be such an issue.
I really want to build myself because I'm a) interested in learning b) interested in whether I can beat the value of studio monitors. I've also got access to a woodwork shop and my friend who'll build cabinets for free. I've also got a dcx2496, some decent a/d on the way and lots of uber PA power amps lying about. Also got a cambridge audio 6 chan amp (80w pc running 6 chans).
I'm already going to have nearfields in. What I want is something a little bit different, something with a bit of wow factor, that I can still mix/produce on, but will also sound good to people a few feet behind sitting on the sofa. Bass response has to be strong (so I'll need a subwoofer or 8) but also very tight and defined. Percussive and transient response is very, very important. So important I'd even consider horns. They also has to be able to comfortably play pretty loud. Lets say 120db if we can get there.
Budget - £1800 ish.
leaving nearfield opens up a whole dimension of problems, all related to how room and speaker interact. you said you do room treatment, which is great, but has to be done with an aim in mind. i highly recommend "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms" by Floyd Toole to get an overview of whats important.
For good SPL and room interaction i would look into a 10-15 inch midbass plus compression driver on a constant directivity waveguide. something like gedlee does. crossover for that wont be easy though, but going active can make that less daunting.
edit: forgot to mention this will need a subwoofer. but those should allways be used anyway, since putting the woofers where the mains are is rarely the best thing todo.
For good SPL and room interaction i would look into a 10-15 inch midbass plus compression driver on a constant directivity waveguide. something like gedlee does. crossover for that wont be easy though, but going active can make that less daunting.
edit: forgot to mention this will need a subwoofer. but those should allways be used anyway, since putting the woofers where the mains are is rarely the best thing todo.
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MaVo- My plan in terms of treatment is to have diffusion at the reflect points, bass trapping in the corners and full range absorbers immeadiately behind the speakers and all over the back wall. Then it's calibrated measurement mic time to ensure modal ringing isn't a problem and an even decay across the room. The ceiling will most likely be covered in broadband absorption and the side walls too, save a few diffusers at the reflect points or wherever else I think they're necessary. The floor will be carpeted in places and concrete in others.
But TBO I think the room is going to follow the speakers... and getting that right is inherently more tweakable than my choice of monitoring. I've read a lot online by people like Ethan Winer and roughly know what I want acoustically out of the space.
A big draw of the K100s will be if people ask me what the main monitors are I'll be able to say the're a clone of the ATC SCM100.
But TBO I think the room is going to follow the speakers... and getting that right is inherently more tweakable than my choice of monitoring. I've read a lot online by people like Ethan Winer and roughly know what I want acoustically out of the space.
A big draw of the K100s will be if people ask me what the main monitors are I'll be able to say the're a clone of the ATC SCM100.
What kind of acoustical response model are you following? Is it a multichannel control room?
What is your experience with studio design?
If you are not entirely familiar with the topic then hire a good acoustical consultant or study some books or methods to avoid many pitfalls early on. Look for Newells studio design/construction book and 'Sound System Engineering' by Davis/Davis or Davis/Patronis.
Either way, you can eliminate lots of acoustic errors by properly flush-mounting your mid/far-fields:
Flush mounting to wall
(NOT an endorsement for Genelec)
And make measurements before you apply broadband (and not so broadband) absorption on most of your surfaces, unless you strive for a non-environment room.
Getting loud from non-(over)compressed source in a large environment requires horns/waveguides and large/efficient mids. While hideously expensive, this is but one example:
RM Monitor
You could follow this design:
http://www.eighteensound.com/staticContent/applications/kits/18Sound_kit15.pdf, but use of a quality low-mid with a shorting ring is recommended. Add subs to taste.
PS how do you plan to mount your nearfields? Do you know how to avoid the image-skewing reflection from the console?
Thanks for the links.
About a console... We're not going to have one, at least at first. All ITB mixing. This is partly because of reflections off the desk, but also because I don't see the point in the expense. There will however be a desk for use with the computer.
My reason for wanting mid-fields is that I want the whole band, or group of musicians to be able to hear pretty clearly whats going on in the mix... and for wow factor.
Multichanel... perhaps in a couple of years.
I have no experience in studio design... my idea was to slowly perfect the space.
Really I don't think flush mounting is going to be possible in the space... can't the same effect be achieved with broadband absorption behind the speakers?
About a console... We're not going to have one, at least at first. All ITB mixing. This is partly because of reflections off the desk, but also because I don't see the point in the expense. There will however be a desk for use with the computer.
My reason for wanting mid-fields is that I want the whole band, or group of musicians to be able to hear pretty clearly whats going on in the mix... and for wow factor.
Multichanel... perhaps in a couple of years.
I have no experience in studio design... my idea was to slowly perfect the space.
Really I don't think flush mounting is going to be possible in the space... can't the same effect be achieved with broadband absorption behind the speakers?
Those ATC monitors are nice, but they won't do the job you want. Not even close.
You will need to look at something much larger, more sensitivity and also more surface area. Look at what the big studios did, that is when there were still big studios... typically twin 15" bass/midbass and some sort of horns above, or else some high power handling mids and tweets...
I'd take a close look at what PA companies are flying today.
They tend to be designed for broad horizontal dispersion, and limited vertical dispersion, BUT that might fit the bill depending on where you place the monitors and how far from the target area, might work out perfectly.
You can clone, copy, and even buy the boxes, sometimes used from a PA/SR company too...
These are the bins flown in vertical arrays these days...
Also look at the Danley designed stuff, some of it is documented here on DiyAudio. You can build that, it goes loud and does the sort of job you are looking for...
small 3 way monitors are not going to touch 120dB.
_-_-bear
You will need to look at something much larger, more sensitivity and also more surface area. Look at what the big studios did, that is when there were still big studios... typically twin 15" bass/midbass and some sort of horns above, or else some high power handling mids and tweets...
I'd take a close look at what PA companies are flying today.
They tend to be designed for broad horizontal dispersion, and limited vertical dispersion, BUT that might fit the bill depending on where you place the monitors and how far from the target area, might work out perfectly.
You can clone, copy, and even buy the boxes, sometimes used from a PA/SR company too...
These are the bins flown in vertical arrays these days...
Also look at the Danley designed stuff, some of it is documented here on DiyAudio. You can build that, it goes loud and does the sort of job you are looking for...
small 3 way monitors are not going to touch 120dB.
_-_-bear
Ok ok. I'm being ridiculous in terms of db. Actually I'm already going to put my PA in there. What will the k100s reach @ 1m, 100db? That'd be fine. I've notes that these are adapted to be floorstanders, is there a way of unadapting them? Also has anyone run these active?
100db @ 1m should be a breeze but a high efficiency horn system would best reflect the "live venue" sound for the electronic music you are mixing.
Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - AVS Forum
Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - AVS Forum
Fair enough! If you are still keen on the K100's you can contact Wilmslow Audio and ask about changing the cabinet size. Should be easy to do, and if you want to use subs, a smaller sealed enclosure would be better anyway.
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