Horn driver recommendations for extreme SPL

[jeremiahrose]

Hi there, new to the forum but this seems like a pretty happening place!

I'm trying to find a compression horn driver for a portable battery powered application that has

• Extremely high excursion
• Extremely high efficiency (>105 dB SPL per watt @ 1m)
• High continuous power rating (at least 50watts!)
• Usable freq response down to at least ~200Hz
• Very small diameter max ~3"

I realize I'm asking the impossible, but as far as recommendations for extreme gear I bet this is the right place to ask!

I don't mind if the frequency response is all over the place. Mostly I am just after the maximum possible volume in the smallest possible size. Ideally, it would be as loud as a jet engine. I do hope to get some mid-low frequencies out of it though - not looking for a tweeter.

It will be connected to a custom acoustic horn to maximize efficiency.

Looking forward to hearing what crazy stuff you guys come up with 🙂

 

[freddi]

if you could make 5.8" OD work, then for the lower mids this 5 inch PRV speaker might be pretty good and its rated 3.3mm xmax more than most normal compression drivers.
I don't know if it would last long at 50 watts or not (perhaps xrk971 would comment as he's used it)

PRV 5MR450-NDY for FAST applications
5MR450-NDY-4 PRV AUDIO 5" NEO MIDRANGE LOUDSPEAKER
8 ohm version
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-2705--prv-audio-5mr450-ndy-specifications.pdf
4 ohm version
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-2704--prv-audio-5mr450-ndy-4-specifications.pdf

the old Selenium - JBL D250 phenolic driver would be reasonably loud and cheap but might fry quick at 50 watts - maybe someone at the musical instrument forum would know of something better suited such as perhaps a siren driver YouTube

Selenium D250-X GW 1" Phenolic Horn Driver 1-3/8"-18 TPI

what's the specs (throat, path length, expansion type and mouth size) of your horn ?

 

[freddi]

for the low end (and limited range) - maybe a speaker like a Howler or Rumbler would save bulk and and do more work than a cheap compression driver on a horn - think I saw someone recommend an Eminence Beta6 for such a project (where ?- it looks like a high tuned BP4 from the photos in the link below and covers about an octave of obnoxious goodness) - one could cut and try one from 6" pvc pipe.

Anatomy of a Rumbler Siren (original style) | eLightbars

 

[basreflex]

if you can construct the horn and phase plug, youhave to look for the driver with highest bandwidth efficiency product, to be calculated as Fs/Qes.
Ciare has a dome with 200W and BEP around 600,the HM500. looks like one of the highest in the industry .. their 6.38MR is traditionally used in pro array systems, with a 102 dB sensitivity or 6.1% conversion efficiency.
one of my favourites.

 

[freddi]

dear basreflex - I've not seen 6.38MR (nor 6.38MR3) for sale in the US - hopefully there's either some US source (or reasonable $ international shipping.) Is there a minimalist effort phase plug type which would help it function in a typical horn ? At the very least it would be useful to me as a fun Cerwin-Vega S1 type build.

 

[basreflex]

you could try a german based shop like this one
www[dot]lautsprechershop[dot]de.

there should quite some phase plug designs on diyaudio.

the 2"voice coil of the HM500 makes it robust..the limited xmax needs to be compensated by horn loading. then the Fs is not determining the low corner too much.remember a klipsch horn operates mostly below its system resonance.

 

[freddi]

postage for 1-unit 6.38MR3 to US = "69.00 Euro"

 

[basreflex]

a hefty 2.8kg.!

just read that Ciare has been bouth up by eigtheensound. they have distribution in the US. could try there: universalmusicusa

 

[freddi]

yes - I saw the news - I'm almost "69" 🙁 - something to anticipate being carried at "Partsexpress" or "Usspeaker" 😀

Its nice to see a cloth surround on that Ciare and I just don't like foam surround speakers even tho realize a new one will be around long after I'm not.

6.38MR is impressive

 

[basreflex]

I once built a guitar cabinet using 4pcs 6.38, with a small frontloaded horn and a backloaded bass horn, about the size of a single marshall cabinet. I painted it orange and called the cabinet Maxima.
measured >134dB in front of the cabinet...

PS orange is the colour of the dutch royal family ..

 

[basreflex]

your other option could be the faitalpro M5N8-80, also impressive for it's 5" size, only 1.2kg

 

[freddi]

thanks again - I found that driver on a horn similar to my my 250Hz Edgarhorn from ~1991. Comments implied the sound was very good on snare drum.

Speaker project: Eminence 12CX in 125 liter cabinets + FaitalPRO M5N12 in 300Hz Edgarhorns - Album on Imgur

What do you think the approximate sensitivity of M58-80 would be on a 250Hz tractrix horn with 2.5" x 2.5" mouth?

your "Maxima" delivered nicely ! (any pictures ?) For a direct radiator guitar cabinet, I think 6-8X 10" would be nice. (I have some old Traynor YBA3 heads) Have you every played guitar through a Karlson box? I was surprised with my Acoustic Control 115BK and EV15L with a Peavey Alpha Bass plus Cannabis Rex and a "K12" on a little practice amp.

 

[basreflex]

maxima was a little short on the low end, especially as the guitarplayer tuned a bit lower, typical for stonerrock. it would need a much longer bass horn

in the early days a jcm800 was doing the job. plenty of headroom ...

here is a small drawing of the maxima. the driver magnet was sticking through a panel to get a minimum back chamber volume.

the guitar player still can hear as the sound source was placed low. ...
I don't play guitar, built my first tube amp in 1963

 

[freddi]

that's a nice arrangement. I assembled my first tube amp from a kit around 1964-65.

 

[GM]

This driver on a 140 Hz trumpet will meet your requirements: http://greatplainsaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/299-Series_hfdriver_spec_sheet.pdf

GM

 

[basreflex]

one of my later designs a 3kW folding horn, 3x12" beyma ND. heavy beast, I did prepare it for watercooling the magnet assy's using PC modding kits. I have tempsensors on each driver that can be monitered using the XLR plug.

 

[daemonsgr]

thanks again - I found that driver on a horn similar to my my 250Hz Edgarhorn from ~1991. Comments implied the sound was very good on snare drum.

Speaker project: Eminence 12CX in 125 liter cabinets + FaitalPRO M5N12 in 300Hz Edgarhorns - Album on Imgur

Really good project! Bloody temping

 

[basreflex]

sorting out the proper gas springs, I ordered a custom stainless steel hinge, and added a rubber slab over it. in the end I had to add 2 more wheels in the center ,as the long contraption got stuck on the ramp to the truck.

 

[jazbo8]

Thread moved to PA Systems.

 

[ndcraig]

Hi there, new to the forum but this seems like a pretty happening place!

I'm trying to find a compression horn driver for a portable battery powered application that has

• Extremely high excursion
• Extremely high efficiency (>105 dB SPL per watt @ 1m)
• High continuous power rating (at least 50watts!)
• Usable freq response down to at least ~200Hz
• Very small diameter max ~3"

I realize I'm asking the impossible, but as far as recommendations for extreme gear I bet this is the right place to ask!

I don't mind if the frequency response is all over the place. Mostly I am just after the maximum possible volume in the smallest possible size. Ideally, it would be as loud as a jet engine. I do hope to get some mid-low frequencies out of it though - not looking for a tweeter.

It will be connected to a custom acoustic horn to maximize efficiency.

Looking forward to hearing what crazy stuff you guys come up with 🙂

Community M200 gets extremely loud in the midrange on the right horn.
Unfortunately only rated down to 400Hz and even then you would need a large horn to support it at that frequency.


The community M4 would do it, but it's discontinued. 144dB from 200 to 4k with a 114dB 1w sensitivity. It was damn huge and heavy but would give you that jet-engine blast.


Other than those, perhaps combining a bunch of phenolic diaphragm paging-horn drivers onto an EV mta-42 manifold would give you the LF capability you want along with the max spl
-the Atlas PD60A claims response at 100Hz, (but it's really happier 200 to 300) Finding a 2" throat horn capable of 200Hz won't be easy unless you plan on building your own.