I'm looking for a good midrange driver to match a compression B&C DE25 @1.5kHz, I've got the advice to use B&C 12PL32 wich is high efficiency driver and flat from 100 to 1500 Hz but its Mms is 42g for a Bl of 16.1 T.m, this frequency range is critical for my favourite instrument wich is piano, distorsion should be low with such a driver but how to predict accuracy compared to a 6.5'' classical hi fi driver like Focal, SEAS excel or scanspeak ????
Any advice, opinions ?
Any advice, opinions ?
hello!
Audio legend # 1
'large woofers are slow'
I would be more interested in such things as
-Dispersion(particurly when considering a 12" going near 1khz)
-Frequency range
-harmonic distortion
-TIMD etc etc
-energy storage
http://www.mfk-projects.com/the_6_in_comparison.htm
the linkwitzlab.com site did have some midrange speaker measurements and comparations.
🙂
Audio legend # 1
'large woofers are slow'
I would be more interested in such things as
-Dispersion(particurly when considering a 12" going near 1khz)
-Frequency range
-harmonic distortion
-TIMD etc etc
-energy storage
http://www.mfk-projects.com/the_6_in_comparison.htm
the linkwitzlab.com site did have some midrange speaker measurements and comparations.
🙂
Yes, dispersion, frequency range, waterfall, harmonic distorsion, energy storage, all those criteria are essential, so :mikee12345 said:
*dispersion : little woofer seems better than large one
*freq. range : 12'' woofer like B&C12PL32 can reach 1.5kHz with flat freq. response
*waterfall : no man's land, so hard to get some information about ir
*harmonic distorsion : I don't know wich is the best, I think 12'' drivers is better than a 6.5'' one in the 100Hz region and 6.5'' is better in the 1.5kHz region ?
*energy storage : a 12'' like B&C 12PL32 is about 98 dB efficient between 100 and 1500 Hz, it is an heavy cone but with the large motor, is it an issue ? I don't think a 6.5'' woofer has more energy and dynamics ...
So, what is the advice ? I plan to use a Beyma 15K200 for the low bass (< 100-150 Hz) a woofer up to 1.5kHz and a compression driver B&C25 up to 18Kz
Split the difference
A twelve is going to beam from 1kHz at best, but a 6.5 isn't going to have what it takes to keep up with the HF element. Go with a high sensitivity 8 or ten, but make sure you have an XMax of no less than 3mm or you'll get power compression in the lower range. Raw frequency response of a pro-sound 12 is going to look fine up to 3kHz at least, until you check the response at 30 degrees off-axis. That is the frequency response you want to look at.
As to the term 'slow', remove it from your loudspeaker vocabularly. A driver cone moves at the 'speed', more properly referred to as frequency, of the signal fed to it by the amp. The driver itself has no contribution regarding how fast the cone moves.
Make sure you run a sim before deciding on the woofer. If that Beyma you're considering is a pro-sound model it may not be much good below 50 Hz, but on the other hand will work well to at least 300 Hz in the mid-bass.
A twelve is going to beam from 1kHz at best, but a 6.5 isn't going to have what it takes to keep up with the HF element. Go with a high sensitivity 8 or ten, but make sure you have an XMax of no less than 3mm or you'll get power compression in the lower range. Raw frequency response of a pro-sound 12 is going to look fine up to 3kHz at least, until you check the response at 30 degrees off-axis. That is the frequency response you want to look at.
As to the term 'slow', remove it from your loudspeaker vocabularly. A driver cone moves at the 'speed', more properly referred to as frequency, of the signal fed to it by the amp. The driver itself has no contribution regarding how fast the cone moves.
Make sure you run a sim before deciding on the woofer. If that Beyma you're considering is a pro-sound model it may not be much good below 50 Hz, but on the other hand will work well to at least 300 Hz in the mid-bass.
Re: Split the difference
That's correct, more large is the cone, more the off axis is falling at 30°, you seem to think that this 12'' driver is not a good idea for my project and than a good 8'' or 10'' driver with enough Xmax and low distorsion is a better choice ?
Wich 10'' driver ??? It's for a Hi Fi system with high efficiency driver...
BillFitzmaurice said:
That's correct, more large is the cone, more the off axis is falling at 30°, you seem to think that this 12'' driver is not a good idea for my project and than a good 8'' or 10'' driver with enough Xmax and low distorsion is a better choice ?
Wich 10'' driver ??? It's for a Hi Fi system with high efficiency driver...
What is your price range?
You might want to look at the Volt BM251.4 , or the Precision devices PD102, both very nice 10" drivers
You might want to look at the Volt BM251.4 , or the Precision devices PD102, both very nice 10" drivers
I can't recommend what you may not have available to you. I'd look at specs of Spl 96 to 100 dB, Fs 60 to 90 Hz, Qts .25 to .4, XMax at least 3mm and no more than -6dB at 30 degrees off-axis at your intended crossover to the HF element. Go with a lower Qts with a low Fs, higher Qts with high Fs. Model it in WinISD to be sure of an acceptable F3 and box size.
I also would be concerned with the amount of cone flex the 12" driver driver will exhibit at 1.5 kHz. Operation of the 12" driver at 1.5 kHz will be less pison-like than a 6.5" or 8" driver made with the same cone material. Hence, I would expect the 12" driver to generate more distortion.
I think you're right, I'm going to buy the Beyma 6MI90, it seems to be enough for my project wich is "make high quality music" in the living room.forsythe said:
so go for Beyma 15K200+6MI90+B&C DE25 and ME45 HORN
just for the fun, this is my first PA/Hi fi speaker
maybe two units of 6MI90 for a d'appolito choice is an option, so efficiency of midrange reach bass and reduce distance to the 108 db/W/m of the compresison driver.
But I use 16Watts class A power amp so two 6MI90 may be hard to drive...
😀
I agree with the recommendations for an 8 or 10 inch. There are some 12" drivers that are remarkably clean up that high, but they aren't necessarily cheap. The Altec 414 comes to mind. I don't imagine they are commonplace in France.
Why not use a B&C and keep it in the family? PHL are also excellent, but the plastic coating they have bugs me a bit if crossed high. At 1.5kHz this isn't a problem though.
GB
Why not use a B&C and keep it in the family? PHL are also excellent, but the plastic coating they have bugs me a bit if crossed high. At 1.5kHz this isn't a problem though.
GB
in pro audio, the man who sells the drivers told me that the B&C 12PL32 is amazing, no coloration, beautiful piano, sax, choir, the best choice for a PA 2 way for natural sound.Greg B said:
The I read the specs and I see Mms=42g !!!!!! B&C qualify the 12PL32 as a woofer, not a midbass so I'm afraid it would not be as good as a 6.5'' challenger.
As it's only for home use and crossover is active using a DSP, a 6.5'' should be enough, no ? Then for the price of one 12'' I can buy two 6.5'' (efficiency is then +3dB)
PHL give no frequency response curve, no waterfall !
Apart from the low Qts of 0.21 the JBL 2012 might be a candidate for your application.
Regards
Charles
Regards
Charles
phase_accurate said:
I agree with you, this driver seems to be quite nice, but it seems to work in 7 liter ported enclosure and maybe in a 6 sealed enclosure, it makes real small boxes, i'm afraid that it sounds ugly in such small boxes but it's the recommanded design by JBL, they know their job and I should trust them without any doubt !
The 2226H driver should replace the Beyma 15K200 in my design, but JBL drivers are expensive compared to JBL or B&C !
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