Hi,
A group of friends are building a sound cart, we call it the booty bump. And we are trying to use the best science possible in its design, which is why I am writing. The design is mostly set, so I will tell you what I know.
Sure 4x100 class d amp (the new one) running on 36 volts SLA batteries.
A pyramid two way electronic crossover with bass boost (cr78)
mids and highs likely will be two kicker 6x9's (they are unusually efficient)
A space in the cart that is 6 cubic feet for the lows, powered by the remaining two channels of the sure amp....
And that is what I want help with: What is the loudest, best sounding, lightest thing I can do with that space, for less than $200.
1) My initial idea is to avoid deep bass, because its just too power hungry, and all I have is 100 watts x 2.
2) The cart has two speaker sides, so I would like to have two woofers facing port and starboard. (I think it should play up into midbass (I think that will make more volume on the whole, yes?), and thus becoming directional)
3) The cart will be made of plywood. There is room on the face for a 12" or smaller.
4) Extra credit for a speaker choice that allow for us to upgrade to a larger amp in the future.
5) I like the idea of a ported enclosure, with it being tuned for maximum volume from say, 40 hz and up. (unless you think we can be both loud and low)
Money is tight, so if there are two (or more) less expensive, efficient speakers, we are all ears.
Thanks for hearing this out!
Warmly Tor
PS, if you think the kicker 6x9's are a bad idea (they are loud and clear) -please feel free to propose another idea. They cost $55 a pair.
A group of friends are building a sound cart, we call it the booty bump. And we are trying to use the best science possible in its design, which is why I am writing. The design is mostly set, so I will tell you what I know.
Sure 4x100 class d amp (the new one) running on 36 volts SLA batteries.
A pyramid two way electronic crossover with bass boost (cr78)
mids and highs likely will be two kicker 6x9's (they are unusually efficient)
A space in the cart that is 6 cubic feet for the lows, powered by the remaining two channels of the sure amp....
And that is what I want help with: What is the loudest, best sounding, lightest thing I can do with that space, for less than $200.
1) My initial idea is to avoid deep bass, because its just too power hungry, and all I have is 100 watts x 2.
2) The cart has two speaker sides, so I would like to have two woofers facing port and starboard. (I think it should play up into midbass (I think that will make more volume on the whole, yes?), and thus becoming directional)
3) The cart will be made of plywood. There is room on the face for a 12" or smaller.
4) Extra credit for a speaker choice that allow for us to upgrade to a larger amp in the future.
5) I like the idea of a ported enclosure, with it being tuned for maximum volume from say, 40 hz and up. (unless you think we can be both loud and low)
Money is tight, so if there are two (or more) less expensive, efficient speakers, we are all ears.
Thanks for hearing this out!
Warmly Tor
PS, if you think the kicker 6x9's are a bad idea (they are loud and clear) -please feel free to propose another idea. They cost $55 a pair.
A pair of neo 12"s would work in 6 cubes, can you use another side of the cart for a speaker?. The peavey neo 12" is cheap and light. That would give much more bump than any 6X9 and take more power down the road... Not a true subwoofer but it is hard to do a light/loud/cheap mobile sub, and the 30 watts the sure will output to a 8ohm driver won't hurt it. I have used the peavey 10" neos and was impressed with the output to weight ratio, four of those and four big horns would pull good db's from a small amp.
That sounds good. I wished I could run that amp harder with four ohms. Not many PA's out there at 4 ohms though. Those do look like nice speakers. I like the idea of them in series... (the 10's).
Do you have advise on the horns? I am completely uninformed about tweeters. I am concerned that my obsession with efficiency will compromise the sound quality too much. Have you heard some good horns that will pick up where there 10" peavey's leave off?
Thanks again ~ good advise.
Do you have advise on the horns? I am completely uninformed about tweeters. I am concerned that my obsession with efficiency will compromise the sound quality too much. Have you heard some good horns that will pick up where there 10" peavey's leave off?
Thanks again ~ good advise.
The Peavey's are fairly smooth and can run up over 3k so just about any any tweeter will "work". I am trying some MCM specials that run $22 and have a large cheap plastic horn attached, my pair both were slightly chipped in shipping but they sound fine for the price and can crossover low if you need to.
A piezo array can be made cheap as dirt and will get the job done also.
A piezo array can be made cheap as dirt and will get the job done also.
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Would anyone suggest a bandpass design for bass if we're going for efficiency over fidelity and depth - or are these too hard to design well?
Hello Tor,
1. You don't need to avoid bass, you have plenty of amplification, you just need some reasonably efficient and cost effective way to utilise the available box space.
2. I think that you should keep an open mind about where to do your crossover. I'd suggest letting your tops extend down to where they are comfortable.
3. Plywood, check 🙂 I'm surprised to hear there's only room for a 12" per side on a 6ft^3 cab... is that with the 6x9's in place? What are the dimensions of this "box?"
4. A driver choice that is optimised for a future potential amplification upgrade is could wind up being less than optimal under the current amplification. I recommend sticking to the amplification available, and NOT planning on more in the future. More amplification just creates more power storage challenges. Try to focus on getting the most out of the amplification you have.
5. The type of enclosure (ported, sealed, line, horn, etc) will depend on what balance of driver gain vs box gain is best for the drivers chosen.
I can't really tell what specifically the $200 budget needs to "cover." so I can't really begin to make suggestions. I will say that I would not use the car speakers personally, however, the alternative would be a more complicated road. I am willing to advise on that but would need a lot of details about the box and what height it will be elevated to, etc etc.
Eric
1. You don't need to avoid bass, you have plenty of amplification, you just need some reasonably efficient and cost effective way to utilise the available box space.
2. I think that you should keep an open mind about where to do your crossover. I'd suggest letting your tops extend down to where they are comfortable.
3. Plywood, check 🙂 I'm surprised to hear there's only room for a 12" per side on a 6ft^3 cab... is that with the 6x9's in place? What are the dimensions of this "box?"
4. A driver choice that is optimised for a future potential amplification upgrade is could wind up being less than optimal under the current amplification. I recommend sticking to the amplification available, and NOT planning on more in the future. More amplification just creates more power storage challenges. Try to focus on getting the most out of the amplification you have.
5. The type of enclosure (ported, sealed, line, horn, etc) will depend on what balance of driver gain vs box gain is best for the drivers chosen.
I can't really tell what specifically the $200 budget needs to "cover." so I can't really begin to make suggestions. I will say that I would not use the car speakers personally, however, the alternative would be a more complicated road. I am willing to advise on that but would need a lot of details about the box and what height it will be elevated to, etc etc.
Eric
So here is what I need help on.
As I said above, I have kicker 6x9's in little prefab boxes. They seems to crap out at around 120 Hz and below.
I have a box(or the space for a box), that is over 3.5 cubic feet. It is square-ish and the two opposing sides make up the lower face of our mobile cart.
I just attempted to build a subwoofer with a DVC infinity 12" sub, in a sealed box, downfiring. Some people have now advised that that was a bad idea, as that driver isn't at its best (far from it) in that enclosure. A bandpass could be made for the infinity sub, but I'm told it could be done optimising 40-80 Hz, leaving 80-120 underserved.
Could anyone advise another thing to do with this space, making the most outdoor PA type loudness. Perhaps two ten inch 4 ohm PA woofers each facing out on each side... playing loud at 35-120? The amp wants 4 ohms. Or four total 8 ohm 8" PA woofers?
We spend $60 on the DVC infinity Sub, we plan to return it.
Has anyone seen some good drivers that could work in this range on clearance?
Tor
As I said above, I have kicker 6x9's in little prefab boxes. They seems to crap out at around 120 Hz and below.
I have a box(or the space for a box), that is over 3.5 cubic feet. It is square-ish and the two opposing sides make up the lower face of our mobile cart.
I just attempted to build a subwoofer with a DVC infinity 12" sub, in a sealed box, downfiring. Some people have now advised that that was a bad idea, as that driver isn't at its best (far from it) in that enclosure. A bandpass could be made for the infinity sub, but I'm told it could be done optimising 40-80 Hz, leaving 80-120 underserved.
Could anyone advise another thing to do with this space, making the most outdoor PA type loudness. Perhaps two ten inch 4 ohm PA woofers each facing out on each side... playing loud at 35-120? The amp wants 4 ohms. Or four total 8 ohm 8" PA woofers?
We spend $60 on the DVC infinity Sub, we plan to return it.
Has anyone seen some good drivers that could work in this range on clearance?
Tor
PS the budget is flexible, the amps (2050 sure amps) are all purchased. Its just this woofer box I need help building.
These 10"dvc drivers are surprisingly efficient.
I have used them with a 15watt t-amp and they pulled a decent amount of bump from limited power.
I have used them with a 15watt t-amp and they pulled a decent amount of bump from limited power.
Designing a speaker for street-performance
Hi forum
When designing a normal PA, how do I determine a good cab volume and what port size would be best for specific drivers? This is for a cheap project and I think I'm going for the cheap the.box speakers along with a couple of ASD1001 horn-drivers that I already have. Either 10 or 12 inches.
This project is for a street-performance speaker, so this is the design I have been thinking about. (Terrible drawing in paint) It is built on a trolley, so it's easy to move around. I have everything I need to do the amp, batteries, eq, mixerboard and so on. The speaker will mostly be used for keys, guitar and mic. (Pretty much acoustic)
I have two small 2x100w boards along with a MiniDSP to eq and crossover. The idea is to have as good a spray-angle as possible, since the speaker will most likely be used on "narrow" streets.
Besides that. Any ideas on how sound quality can be improved? I think I'm gonna put some thin acoustic foam on the opposite side of both speaker-sides 🙂
If you have any suggestions to the design, please tell me.
Hi forum
When designing a normal PA, how do I determine a good cab volume and what port size would be best for specific drivers? This is for a cheap project and I think I'm going for the cheap the.box speakers along with a couple of ASD1001 horn-drivers that I already have. Either 10 or 12 inches.
This project is for a street-performance speaker, so this is the design I have been thinking about. (Terrible drawing in paint) It is built on a trolley, so it's easy to move around. I have everything I need to do the amp, batteries, eq, mixerboard and so on. The speaker will mostly be used for keys, guitar and mic. (Pretty much acoustic)
I have two small 2x100w boards along with a MiniDSP to eq and crossover. The idea is to have as good a spray-angle as possible, since the speaker will most likely be used on "narrow" streets.
Besides that. Any ideas on how sound quality can be improved? I think I'm gonna put some thin acoustic foam on the opposite side of both speaker-sides 🙂
If you have any suggestions to the design, please tell me.
If you have the TS parameters you can plug them into various calculators and model the box. I would just choose a a compact dimension and try a 60hz tuning for your application. Light plywood for a busking box and invest in a good long lasting (high mh battery).
I'll tune it to the driver. Is that not the optimal tuning?
It's just going to be a car battery cause I already have one. That's why I'll use a trolley, so I can have a fair amount of weight without trouble 🙂
It's just going to be a car battery cause I already have one. That's why I'll use a trolley, so I can have a fair amount of weight without trouble 🙂
That is not how bass works. If you try to steer bass and ignore the ground plane you are going to have a bad time. Remember bass is omnidirectional and you need to spread subs out in and do fancy schmancy processing to put it where you want it. Subwoofer Arrays: Discussion & Analysis Of A Variety Of Bass Coverage Patterns - Page 3 of 3 - ProSoundWeb
Remember, if you are a theoretician, you should learn better how height of an array is reflected on directionality on different frequencies. The lower are frequencies, the higher must be the array. If you are a person that learns from the experience, welcome to listen to my recording made by a cellphone; if you are a person that learns from own experience, try to experiment and get understanding. There is no such things like "bass works" and "treble works". Everything is the same waves, but of different lengths. Hence, different sizes. People that attended festivals with my setups say that they never ever heard sound of such quality on open scenes. If you want all that standard crap, go ahead and repeat all that mistakes that the industry makes. Of course, you can find as many of articles supporting that mistakes, as you want.
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