Hello people,
Looking for a half decent small mixer with at least:
4 Mic/instrument inputs
1 stereo input
USB for using as an audio interface
MIDI I/O for use with synths
Good noise figures
Not too expensive
I do not have a huge amount of experience looking for mixers so I was hoping for some advice, basically I want 1 thing that do all these things instead of having lots of boxes with lots of signal routing in between.
So far it seems the Tascam Model 12 may be my best option, but with my limited knowledge in this particular field there might be some other good contenders that I have no idea about.
Been looking at devices with compareable specs like the Yamaha MG12 XU but it has no MIDI, and the Tascam does look much better even though that is not a requirement of mine it is sort of a bonus to have the aesthetics covered.
Thankful for any advice not involving a cluttered mess of 3 different items to fulfill these criteria.
Looking for a half decent small mixer with at least:
4 Mic/instrument inputs
1 stereo input
USB for using as an audio interface
MIDI I/O for use with synths
Good noise figures
Not too expensive
I do not have a huge amount of experience looking for mixers so I was hoping for some advice, basically I want 1 thing that do all these things instead of having lots of boxes with lots of signal routing in between.
So far it seems the Tascam Model 12 may be my best option, but with my limited knowledge in this particular field there might be some other good contenders that I have no idea about.
Been looking at devices with compareable specs like the Yamaha MG12 XU but it has no MIDI, and the Tascam does look much better even though that is not a requirement of mine it is sort of a bonus to have the aesthetics covered.
Thankful for any advice not involving a cluttered mess of 3 different items to fulfill these criteria.
I'm not a musician and know only basic MIDI stuff, so I'm probably on the wrong path. You can integrate MIDI with a laptop and use the software for it. If you don't want to do that, there are micro-controller which can do that. But what do you want the mixer to do with MIDI? I mean, the USB connection can already be used to control many things (depending on the mixer). There are also MIDI to USB converter but you likely already knew that.
Okay, for mixer with MIDI:
Noise Engineering Xer Mixa
PreSonus StudioLive 16.0.2 USB
Roland AIRA MX-1 Mix Performer
Are these the kind of mixer you are searching for? If not, what do they need to have, what's missing?
Okay, for mixer with MIDI:
Noise Engineering Xer Mixa
PreSonus StudioLive 16.0.2 USB
Roland AIRA MX-1 Mix Performer
Are these the kind of mixer you are searching for? If not, what do they need to have, what's missing?
Hey man. I have the MX-1 and it’s not for you unless you want to go a two box solution. It doesn’t have preamps
What you would be looking for is a digital console mixer. One that can operate as a control surface. That’s the purpose of midi on a mixer. The channel strips can be set to control DAW channels
Except for needing external pres, the MX-1 is perfect but it is unfortunately discontinued and I bought the last one in Australia 😎
What you would be looking for is a digital console mixer. One that can operate as a control surface. That’s the purpose of midi on a mixer. The channel strips can be set to control DAW channels
Except for needing external pres, the MX-1 is perfect but it is unfortunately discontinued and I bought the last one in Australia 😎
System resources, some digital mixers need to be switched to control surface mode. The MX-1 shines here and also with the synths as that is exactly what it is aimed at
The MG12XU and the MX-1 are my two box solution. I don't believe there is a single box solution that can exceed the capabilities of this combo
You asked for alternatives. How about an audio interface with the number of channels that you want. An Intel gen11 CPU laptop running that. And a decent midi control surface, working the DAW as a digital mixer/hub for your synths. That's a three box solution
https://derringers.com.au/novation-launch-control-xl-midi-controller-for-ableton-live?gad_source=1
But
The MX-1 is also a USB ports mixer (Roland only). If you have Roland synths and Aira gear, then they plug into the USB ports and leave the analog inputs free. You can DIY mic pres for the analog inputs. They have very little native gain and more like a line mixer
I am populating one of the USB ports with a JDXi synth. This gives me a very good mic input via the synth and all the vocal effects that I could ever need in the synth and MX-1. My other USB ports are vacant, but two more will be populated by a duo of VT-4s for another pair of mic inputs and three dedicated vocal effects engines between them. These mic inputs on the synths are padded so you can run an instrument through those and make use of all those effects too. Those two VT-4s, one is for a sax mic and another for a violin mic for our EDM/dub trio. The electric bass comes in via the MG12XU and into one of the MX-1s analog inputs. Same for the mic channels from the Yamaha. When used like this, you can ignore the USB section of the analog console as the MX-1 is 18 in 18 out, and you can mix and match which DAW and live channels to bring to the channel strips
The MX-1 single weakness is the output routing. It only has one analog master out and duplicated over the digital out. I can do with mains and master and booth and such outputs, so have bought a 2 in 8 out DSP to run on the MX-1 analog out. Now it's another box added to the two box solution which really was three as a laptop just adds to the MX-1 experience!
@ICG @Randy Bassinga Thanks for getting involved, appreciate it.
I found one altaernative answer my own question:
One clear advantage would be achieved by having MIDI handled separately, for instance using something like the CME U6 MIDI Pro which is a USB interface with 3 x I/O, and having a single dedicated multiple I/O MIDI unit can help reduce issues with sync.
I was originally looking long and hard at the Yamaha MG12XU, the first argument against it was the non-MIDI thing but that sort of solves itself with the beforementioned 3xI/O gizmo, another argument against it is certain limitations on recording channels but that is no big deal.
The cheaper solutions from Mackie, RCF, Behringer do not seem interesting to me.
On the more costly side:
The Korg MW-1608 NT and the BIG SiX might have been contenders, but one is over double and the other is over quadruple the price of the Tascam Model 12/Yamaha MG12XU options.
The Midas M32R Live seems like a more expensive variant of Behringer X32 Producer, they are so similar it is hard to see them as different products unless you consider cost to be a factor.
@chienmort not sure what something like the CQ12T has to offer to make it a viable contender to the options from Tascam and Yamaha, but the Allen & Heath Qu-16 Chrome looks VERY nice, the biggest argument for it is AES out and the biggest argument against it is cost.
Not sure what to think about the 1010music bluebox.
Alright, so far it seems like the best options might be:
1. the "old classic" Yamaha MG12XU in combination with the CME U6 MIDI Pro.
2. Behringer X32 Producer, more expensive but seems like it might be worth it.
Still open for suggestions, nothing is decided yet, will wait a little bit before sacrificing my wallet.
As long as there are reasonable arguments for a more expensive product I will seriously consider it, I want "value for money" not "cheapest possible".
I found one altaernative answer my own question:
One clear advantage would be achieved by having MIDI handled separately, for instance using something like the CME U6 MIDI Pro which is a USB interface with 3 x I/O, and having a single dedicated multiple I/O MIDI unit can help reduce issues with sync.
I was originally looking long and hard at the Yamaha MG12XU, the first argument against it was the non-MIDI thing but that sort of solves itself with the beforementioned 3xI/O gizmo, another argument against it is certain limitations on recording channels but that is no big deal.
The cheaper solutions from Mackie, RCF, Behringer do not seem interesting to me.
On the more costly side:
The Korg MW-1608 NT and the BIG SiX might have been contenders, but one is over double and the other is over quadruple the price of the Tascam Model 12/Yamaha MG12XU options.
The Midas M32R Live seems like a more expensive variant of Behringer X32 Producer, they are so similar it is hard to see them as different products unless you consider cost to be a factor.
@chienmort not sure what something like the CQ12T has to offer to make it a viable contender to the options from Tascam and Yamaha, but the Allen & Heath Qu-16 Chrome looks VERY nice, the biggest argument for it is AES out and the biggest argument against it is cost.
Not sure what to think about the 1010music bluebox.
Alright, so far it seems like the best options might be:
1. the "old classic" Yamaha MG12XU in combination with the CME U6 MIDI Pro.
2. Behringer X32 Producer, more expensive but seems like it might be worth it.
Still open for suggestions, nothing is decided yet, will wait a little bit before sacrificing my wallet.
As long as there are reasonable arguments for a more expensive product I will seriously consider it, I want "value for money" not "cheapest possible".
Have a very close read of the Yamaha AG08. Less channels but very advanced channel strips for recording. Do you need the old school knob per function of the analog console or is something like the AG08 with its DSP and USB channels? I fint it difficult to consider other brands in smimilar manner to you but based on the number of bricked items doing the eBay rounds. Yamaha is a safe and reliable choice
Roland and Korg excel on the digital side and marry well with analogue due to being more producer Dj style items. Thats my only argument for going expensive. Well featured units from the leaders in digital plus a console from Yamaha. Even a second hand MX-1 will bring together everything midi and synth at excellent levels and the MG12XU seperated into groups and busses and fed into the MX-1s analog line inputs
Roland and Korg excel on the digital side and marry well with analogue due to being more producer Dj style items. Thats my only argument for going expensive. Well featured units from the leaders in digital plus a console from Yamaha. Even a second hand MX-1 will bring together everything midi and synth at excellent levels and the MG12XU seperated into groups and busses and fed into the MX-1s analog line inputs
Indeed, that's actually the case. Behringer bought Midas in 2009 and integrated much of their circuits in their own products, which made ie the Midas preamps possible even for low cost mixers. They brought also own circuits and parts into Midas to lower production costs.
Yes indeed, that is my experience as well. Trying to look away from that particular blinding light and being open to alternatives.
The AG08 could be an option, like the bluebox, it is not like the inputs absolutely must have all those knobs, but having all those knobs means that you get an instant visual feedback and being able to tweak any parameter on the fly without accessing menus within menus to do so.
A little bit hesitant to forego the knobs, but I have not listed this as part of the criteria because I am willing to look at any and all options, so far it seems the solutions with knobs have slightly better specs than the things without knobs.
I passed on the AG08 due to preferring knob per function for live use as in our genres the mixer is played like an instrument too. But I did get an AG06mk2 to use as audio interface for the mobile speaker bench under build. And I selected an Android head unit to get the knob per function via DSP by having the virtual knobs up on the touchscreen. The AG06mk2 to feed into the line in of the head unit and head unit DSP to split the signal into mains and sub plus eq
Akai also have a mixer control surface to allow a PC to act as a digital mixer and MIDI/USB hub
Kaffiman, all these alternatives are fun for messing around, but if you are working and on limited funds, head for the blinding light and hang a MIDI hub or second hand MX-1 off it and be done with it. The feeling of failing hardware can be crushing during a booking. I had a brand new Bheringer console that bricked the USB section during a wedding reception. I was sending karaoke audio to the mixer over USB. eBay also seems flooded with interfaces and mixers with bricked USB sections from Harmon brands
Keep in mind that running MIDI only hardware means doubling up in the future if you decide to add PC support or another hardware like a Roland or Korg that can sync over USB MIDI or if DAW control became important
The MG12XU is the full format mixer in the MG line. The smaller ones are the 12XU cut back, rather than the 12XU being an upgrade from a lesser. This is like down locking CPUs to create a false range of speeds. The MG range really starts at the 12XU. For anything smaller, the AG08 is a better choice, regardless of the lack of controls. That was my reason for getting the AG06. Nothing in the MG range below the 12XU is widely usable
Akai also have a mixer control surface to allow a PC to act as a digital mixer and MIDI/USB hub
Kaffiman, all these alternatives are fun for messing around, but if you are working and on limited funds, head for the blinding light and hang a MIDI hub or second hand MX-1 off it and be done with it. The feeling of failing hardware can be crushing during a booking. I had a brand new Bheringer console that bricked the USB section during a wedding reception. I was sending karaoke audio to the mixer over USB. eBay also seems flooded with interfaces and mixers with bricked USB sections from Harmon brands
Keep in mind that running MIDI only hardware means doubling up in the future if you decide to add PC support or another hardware like a Roland or Korg that can sync over USB MIDI or if DAW control became important
The MG12XU is the full format mixer in the MG line. The smaller ones are the 12XU cut back, rather than the 12XU being an upgrade from a lesser. This is like down locking CPUs to create a false range of speeds. The MG range really starts at the 12XU. For anything smaller, the AG08 is a better choice, regardless of the lack of controls. That was my reason for getting the AG06. Nothing in the MG range below the 12XU is widely usable
Yes, not disagreeing in anything you say, and I also have a great impression of Yamaha, just think it's a shame that there seems to be zero competition.
I always like to find som underdog that gives great performance and stability, but it seems like in this case I will have to choose the only option that makes sense.
So, that out of the way, is there any humongous benefit going for the Yamaha DM3S over the MG12XU?
I am willing to stretch the budget a bit further, but the MG12XU seems like a very nice package.
The CME U6 MIDI Pro seems like a very flexible solution, so I am not worried, will get two just in case because they are so cheap.
I always like to find som underdog that gives great performance and stability, but it seems like in this case I will have to choose the only option that makes sense.
So, that out of the way, is there any humongous benefit going for the Yamaha DM3S over the MG12XU?
I am willing to stretch the budget a bit further, but the MG12XU seems like a very nice package.
The CME U6 MIDI Pro seems like a very flexible solution, so I am not worried, will get two just in case because they are so cheap.
Thats some gear
I think of Yamaha as having nailed analog for durability but for some reason I am more comfortable with Roland for all digital. Roland gear to me instils confidence and prolly an imagined cohesiveness to the sound and unit in the same manner that Yamaha does for utilitarian analog
Take an example of this with effects. Yamaha have solid DSP effects, but it's that reliable good sounding solid with minimum fuss for a live setup but its pretty ordinary as a studio console. Even the DM3 when compared to a mature digital heritage with something fine like a V-Mixer
Although my MG12XU + MX-1 + DJ-202 combo would walk all over both the DM3 and V-Mixer as a live performance setup for a one-man army type of producer/Dj who host frequent guest performers and takes work back to a personal studio. Hope this makes sense. The one box solutions are amazing but since you brought up the DM3, I thought to demo that again a dedicated box per job combo that gives that critical visual reference for the inputs and comprehensive digital manipulation including going to the extent of placing an effect or a chain of them on a single step of a beat! And something different every step of every beat!!!
That level of performance access would take an hour to patch on the DM3 or V-Mixer. That three box setup is actually four box in my case as I also have an Akai FIRE giving me instant hardware controller access to the FL Studio step sequencer. This is the kind of hardware chain that makes today's one-person concerts possible and was actually invented by King Tubby, who Roland referenced with the MX-1. Unfortunately, it seems the less work intensive groove boxes won due to Akai's success and killed the MX-1 after a very long run. It's been through multiple updates and still getting updated with many new features since launch
The MG12XU is the best place to start, but skip the DM3 and go straight to the V-mixer if going all digital just for live band or studio. If you get the itch to jam then look for a second hand MX-1
I don't know if that's a huge thing for you but the DM3S got motor faders. Not only can it be be fully remote controlled but you can save every setting, fader position, busses and matrix and return to exactly the same as before even if you did something different with the mixer in between. So no 'forgotten setting' if you're mastering an album etc for weeks or months and realizing later, after hundreds of hours spent on it, "damn, I didn't realize how different these tracks sound, I have to repeat it ALL!". The busses and the matrix are also something you don't have on the MG12XU.
I like the MG12XU, you have a knob for every function, no change in what a button does. The 1-knob compressors work great + are very easy to use. But you don't have busses so monitoring for different musicians is quite difficult, you probably need a different mixer for that. It's simply 'old school'.
E: The DM3S got 2 separate FX, the MG12XU just one.
Okay, if you want to keep more of the old school feeling and having the feeling of having all under control by each knob, no menu switching functions, then the Presonus StudioLive 16.0.2 USB is probably the better choice, since it's a lot cheaper (<900€). Full digital but it got also a downside: No motor faders.
Presonus StudioLive 16.0.2 seems pretty nice, a lot of useful features for just a bit more money, note that there are mixed opinions on the sound quality of the mic amps.
The Allen & Heath Qu-16 is very interesting, a bit expensive.
Starting to look like there is no way around the MG12XU, whatever it is missing in terms of functionality is cheaper to buy extra, like MIDI I/O and DAW controllers with motorised faders, still less than half the price of a comparable solution like the Qu-16.
The Allen & Heath Qu-16 is very interesting, a bit expensive.
Starting to look like there is no way around the MG12XU, whatever it is missing in terms of functionality is cheaper to buy extra, like MIDI I/O and DAW controllers with motorised faders, still less than half the price of a comparable solution like the Qu-16.
It took me 8yrs and a lot of money and some failed gear before I came to that conclusion too. I cant exactly remember why I passed up on the Presonus but it may have had something to do with the inflexibility of the multichannel outs where only the raw input signal is sent to the DAW. I am a live performer and prefer to record each instrument post fader and with the hardware effects applied. A lot of mixers with multitrack interfaces only allow this via the USB master stereo and not the individual tracks. Something to watch out for if you thought to record the full glory of the moment on the channel strip during a show
On the Presonus you can select what will be recorded and each channel receives their own dsp effects and filters. That is special about the Presonus, the dsp taps are just channel limited, not globally. You can also select the bus or matrix.
The Presonus can do all that. It just can't adjust the faders but it still can affect each channel. You can read that on musician boards, PA boards or simply look into its manual.
The MG12XU is nice for a small live jam but you can't do any mastering or monitoring because it lacks busses, pfl out and generally working completely analog. Even the USB in/out is going through the AD/DA/AD conversion each time. That means if you loop a channel several times through it, the noise, distortion and dynamic are suffering each time. For live/small venue events fine, for mastering a track or record it's simply out of the question. It's analog. Period.
I don't know what the downsides of the Roland MX1 are but the more units you add, the more points of failure and dependencies you create. If you want to go analog, get a cheap 32 ch Soundcraft etc, you have to cope with a massive, heavy beast but it can do anything the combination of the different boxes can and much more. Add a decent sound interface, 4-8 ch scarlet or behringer and still be cheaper. Or go fully digital like the Yamaha DM3S or Presonus - which will give you the analog feeling and low price.
To switch to in between the chain several times between analog and digital gives you the downsides of both analog and digital but the benefits of none!