Greetings!
I am somewhat new to this forum but have read a lot of posts for the last year. I started dabbling in speaker building earlier this winter. A few full range drivers I have been experimenting with are the Mark Audio Alpair 6M, 6P, and CHBW.
The 6M has been my favorite of the bunch. I have tried several variations of the “Golden Ratio Bass Reflex design” posted on the Mark Audio Website. The pictures below are a pair I completed mid-December and then a pair I am finishing up currently. The Darker ones are actually completed now with the front ports.
To sum things up the current design with a little digital EQ is one of the most enjoyable near field design I have had in front of me of the different setups I have had over the years (Mackie, Blue Sky Media Desk, PMC, KRK, M-audio). I feel as though the Alpair 6M is a very overlooked driver. I am very happy with this modified design. It may have a been a fluke but it turned out well. Hope to post more later.
I am somewhat new to this forum but have read a lot of posts for the last year. I started dabbling in speaker building earlier this winter. A few full range drivers I have been experimenting with are the Mark Audio Alpair 6M, 6P, and CHBW.
The 6M has been my favorite of the bunch. I have tried several variations of the “Golden Ratio Bass Reflex design” posted on the Mark Audio Website. The pictures below are a pair I completed mid-December and then a pair I am finishing up currently. The Darker ones are actually completed now with the front ports.
To sum things up the current design with a little digital EQ is one of the most enjoyable near field design I have had in front of me of the different setups I have had over the years (Mackie, Blue Sky Media Desk, PMC, KRK, M-audio). I feel as though the Alpair 6M is a very overlooked driver. I am very happy with this modified design. It may have a been a fluke but it turned out well. Hope to post more later.
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Hi djverne,
Welcome and good to hear about your experiences. Nice, compact builds you have there.
What amp are you using?
Welcome and good to hear about your experiences. Nice, compact builds you have there.
What amp are you using?
I am using the SMSL 36A pro, with Yaqin tube buffer on the front end. The tubes are the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z black bottle tubes. The sound is awesome for near field/moderate listening levels. I listen to a lot of ambient electronic music and this is truly the most satisfying setup I have had for non fatiguing reasonable listening levels. (I have had Fritz speakers, Pmc, Merlin, Dynaudio, Harbeth, Neat Petite, with Hegel, Job, Nad, Exposure, Rogue,Flying Mole, Class D, (FYI Exposure amps are my favorite). It thumps, is warm, fast, and draws you in, nice sound-stage, and a tonality that reaches out and warms you like a fine glass of scotch. Her are some more picks.
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tell us more about the amp - cute little package for sure
nice work - yes the A6s are too easily overlooked - which is a shame
nice work - yes the A6s are too easily overlooked - which is a shame
The front panels of the darker pair are “Wenge” an exotic hard wood from Africa. Once it warms up outside I will be able to sand them and then use a Tung oil finish.
The second lighter pair is Baltic Birch with a cherry veneer. I have never veneered anything before so it was a fun learning process. These speakers are now being layered with deft lacquer spray in preparation for hopefully a nice shinny finish.
The SMSL 36A pro is a small little digital amp based on Texas Instruments TPA3118D2. It is somewhat popular on these forums and I can see why. It’s refined, transparent, and non-fatiguing. While it does have its limitations (power and low end authority) Paired with the Yaqin tube buffer and Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z black bottle tubes, a nice amount of tone, texture, and bloom is added making for a very satisfying music experience.
I had another variation of this design which used a passive woofer instead of the port on the front. It added a nice amount low end extension but ultimately had a little too much bloom in my near field setting.
I’m really happy with this design. I Hope to post more pics as I finish the second pair.
The second lighter pair is Baltic Birch with a cherry veneer. I have never veneered anything before so it was a fun learning process. These speakers are now being layered with deft lacquer spray in preparation for hopefully a nice shinny finish.
The SMSL 36A pro is a small little digital amp based on Texas Instruments TPA3118D2. It is somewhat popular on these forums and I can see why. It’s refined, transparent, and non-fatiguing. While it does have its limitations (power and low end authority) Paired with the Yaqin tube buffer and Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z black bottle tubes, a nice amount of tone, texture, and bloom is added making for a very satisfying music experience.
I had another variation of this design which used a passive woofer instead of the port on the front. It added a nice amount low end extension but ultimately had a little too much bloom in my near field setting.
I’m really happy with this design. I Hope to post more pics as I finish the second pair.
Very beautiful cabinets!
I'm also making a cabinet for 6MA usage. Is not so beautiful, but is a Work in Progress: next step is to line them with a Tolex (Fender-like), because sometimes I want a different finishing than varnish or paint...
An I concur with chrisb, is a shame to overlook this drivers - they sound very nice, with great neutrality, impressive bass to this size and good presence, specially in strings. In nearfield (the intended usage for this model) they really shine!
The maximum SPL of course is not like big speakers but is high than one expect for this small size.
I'm also making a cabinet for 6MA usage. Is not so beautiful, but is a Work in Progress: next step is to line them with a Tolex (Fender-like), because sometimes I want a different finishing than varnish or paint...
An I concur with chrisb, is a shame to overlook this drivers - they sound very nice, with great neutrality, impressive bass to this size and good presence, specially in strings. In nearfield (the intended usage for this model) they really shine!
The maximum SPL of course is not like big speakers but is high than one expect for this small size.
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Some seven years ago I designed and built a small Mark Audio Alpair 6 mass loaded transmission line speaker. You will fine details at:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/138750-small-mltl-mark-audio-alpair-6-drivers.html
Jim
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/138750-small-mltl-mark-audio-alpair-6-drivers.html
Jim
[image]Mark 1|none[/image]
[image]Mark 2|none[/image]
[image]Mark 3|none[/image]
Since my original design, I have done a few revisions. This one is veneered and uses baltic birch 3/4 through out.
A second design that I have been experimenting with uses the 6p which is the paper version. At first I was very dissatisfied with the the driver and felt it was kind of shouty, almost like it had too much snap with percussion, and it was irritating to my ears for near-field use. I tried to sell the 6p's and no one bit, so I sat on them.
About a month ago I had a pair of extra boxes I had like the one above. I was bored so I cut a holes directly on the opposite side of were the front driver is and put in a passive radiator. I placed the speakers with the passive radiator about 2 inches from the back wall. With some slight eq, they sound good, real good. I dont know why but the passive radiator placed directly behind the driver In a slim box design really balances out the sound.
[image]Mark 2|none[/image]
[image]Mark 3|none[/image]
Since my original design, I have done a few revisions. This one is veneered and uses baltic birch 3/4 through out.
A second design that I have been experimenting with uses the 6p which is the paper version. At first I was very dissatisfied with the the driver and felt it was kind of shouty, almost like it had too much snap with percussion, and it was irritating to my ears for near-field use. I tried to sell the 6p's and no one bit, so I sat on them.
About a month ago I had a pair of extra boxes I had like the one above. I was bored so I cut a holes directly on the opposite side of were the front driver is and put in a passive radiator. I placed the speakers with the passive radiator about 2 inches from the back wall. With some slight eq, they sound good, real good. I dont know why but the passive radiator placed directly behind the driver In a slim box design really balances out the sound.
Stuffed in the corner with a passive radiator against the wall and little eq.. it just works. Very fast, no boom, big sound stage, and very musical. I'm not sure if the corner acts kind of like a large wave guide, it sounds good.
[image]Corner 1|none[/image]
[image]Corner 2|none[/image]
[image]Corner 1|none[/image]
[image]Corner 2|none[/image]
Interesting experiments!
And also interesting to know that paper being more "difficult" than (in)famous metal/aluminium... this proves sometimes things are not in line with "common sense" (and my luck for purchasing the metal version first! 😉 )
Jim Griffin,
MLTL with 3" driver? I can imagine quality bass (at fair SPL) from these!
Also I noted your commentary about the easy and absence of harshness/sibilance. Is my opinion, too. And this is interesting. In theory, these speakers, due to Mother Nature laws, always have some tendency to have a little roughness in HF response, and this 6MA is NOT exception to the rule. To be fair, I perceive a little "thing/zing" at near 12kHz (most speakers, and full-rangers in particular, generally have at least one or more "spot"), but even with this I prefer them to several common "correct" tweeter domes (of course, well-designed domes will gain the day, but are expensive or hard to find/spot)! If we read only single measurements, one probably discards the 6MA in favour to some el-cheapo dome, when the dome will be the more subjectively coloured!
djverne,
About baffle, for these 6MA I made only this one enclosure (basically the "golden ratio" version with a few "dimension errors"😀🙂 ), so I don't tested this speakers with narrow baffle. But in 2006 I made a very narrow baffle for a 4" Beyma speaker (a mini-folded TL enclosure for 120Hz), upgrated to a Audio Nirvana 3" in 2011 (better than Beyma in most audio range except bass). This speaker are with my brother now, 600km from here. So I cannot direct compare (so I'm comparing apples to oranges), but I noted my personal preference towards larger baffle, it seems to have a little more "presence' and perhaps a little more cleanliness at voices (perhaps this baffle matched the bult-in speakers BSC, who knows).
And also interesting to know that paper being more "difficult" than (in)famous metal/aluminium... this proves sometimes things are not in line with "common sense" (and my luck for purchasing the metal version first! 😉 )
Jim Griffin,
MLTL with 3" driver? I can imagine quality bass (at fair SPL) from these!
Also I noted your commentary about the easy and absence of harshness/sibilance. Is my opinion, too. And this is interesting. In theory, these speakers, due to Mother Nature laws, always have some tendency to have a little roughness in HF response, and this 6MA is NOT exception to the rule. To be fair, I perceive a little "thing/zing" at near 12kHz (most speakers, and full-rangers in particular, generally have at least one or more "spot"), but even with this I prefer them to several common "correct" tweeter domes (of course, well-designed domes will gain the day, but are expensive or hard to find/spot)! If we read only single measurements, one probably discards the 6MA in favour to some el-cheapo dome, when the dome will be the more subjectively coloured!
djverne,
About baffle, for these 6MA I made only this one enclosure (basically the "golden ratio" version with a few "dimension errors"😀🙂 ), so I don't tested this speakers with narrow baffle. But in 2006 I made a very narrow baffle for a 4" Beyma speaker (a mini-folded TL enclosure for 120Hz), upgrated to a Audio Nirvana 3" in 2011 (better than Beyma in most audio range except bass). This speaker are with my brother now, 600km from here. So I cannot direct compare (so I'm comparing apples to oranges), but I noted my personal preference towards larger baffle, it seems to have a little more "presence' and perhaps a little more cleanliness at voices (perhaps this baffle matched the bult-in speakers BSC, who knows).
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We haven't tried them yet (except in sims), but Frugel-Horn Lite should be a very good box for these.
dave
dave
As I've mentioned in other threads, I'm working on a MLTL design for the MA Pluvia 7, so I was particularly interested to see Jim Griffin's beautiful Alpair 6M MLTL.
But I'm confused about the specs of the 6M. The MarkAudio specsheet cites an F0 of 63 Hz, which seems low for a such a small driver. But the same specsheets includes an impedance plot which shows a max at nearly 80 Hz.
Shouldn't F0 correspond to the max of the impedance plot? On virtually all the other driver specsheets i've seen, F0 is at the impedance plot max, including other MA drivers.
Am I mistaken about the F0 being at the impedance plot peak? Or is there an error in the specs (or plot)?
Eric
But I'm confused about the specs of the 6M. The MarkAudio specsheet cites an F0 of 63 Hz, which seems low for a such a small driver. But the same specsheets includes an impedance plot which shows a max at nearly 80 Hz.
Shouldn't F0 correspond to the max of the impedance plot? On virtually all the other driver specsheets i've seen, F0 is at the impedance plot max, including other MA drivers.
Am I mistaken about the F0 being at the impedance plot peak? Or is there an error in the specs (or plot)?
Eric
Maybe MA measured a driver with zero break-in (straigh of the production line, perhaps?).
I've measured the Z and the peak impedance (but don't saved them): straigh of the box (zero use) something less than 70Hz and after some usage lowered a little, if I remember well not with 63Hz but a little higher (in fact good for speakers and I believe some specimens will show a little less than 63Hz). So practical F0 can be considered 63Hz, probably.
Anyway, only very expensive speakers will show "zero" deviations from such specs.
I've measured the Z and the peak impedance (but don't saved them): straigh of the box (zero use) something less than 70Hz and after some usage lowered a little, if I remember well not with 63Hz but a little higher (in fact good for speakers and I believe some specimens will show a little less than 63Hz). So practical F0 can be considered 63Hz, probably.
Anyway, only very expensive speakers will show "zero" deviations from such specs.
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It is much more complicated than that… 1st off T/S aren't scalars, they are curves and the numbers you get depend on where on the curve you measure.
More: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soft...rements-book-win-mac-linux-4.html#post4657538
dave
Dave,
Thanks. I'll have to take a look at using the 6m instead of the Pluvia 7 in my own MLTL project.
Eric
The Alpair brings greater DDR/Detail capability, the P7 brings more. More bass, more volume, more air moved, but it is not as capable when you consider finesse.
dave
dave
Jim:
I'm using your Alpair 6 MLTL design as the basis for a variation on your theme using the 6M. Rather than a straight line my design will require folding the line 2-3 times for a very compact speaker. Are there any additional considerations I need to bear in mind due to the folds? Do I simply keep the line length at 30" but measure the line length through the bends using the center of the cross-section as the line? I plan to keep the 4" x 4" cross-section you've specified as well as the driver offset of 10" from closed end assuming that the folding doesn't require these parameters to change.
I apologize if this is hijacking the thread. If I need to repost elsewhere just let me know.
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