Hi,
I am looking now for good (best) intern wiring for my full range Sonido SWR200A in BR-application.
Now I have Supra classic 1,6 mm.
Mundorf siver/gold 1,0 mm seems to be the best for it?
Also Kimber 4TC?
Sergii
Kiev
I am looking now for good (best) intern wiring for my full range Sonido SWR200A in BR-application.
Now I have Supra classic 1,6 mm.
Mundorf siver/gold 1,0 mm seems to be the best for it?
Also Kimber 4TC?
Sergii
Kiev
No such thing as 'best', just variations of compromise dependant on circumstance. Internal runs are typically very short, so differences, if any, are usually minor at best.
Hi,
Thank you for an answer. The length of internal wire is app. 0,8 - 0,9 m. I think not very short because I have floorstanding speaker.
Bought yesterday a new exotic speaker cable 2 x 2 m (2 silver wire in air isolator). I don`t recognize my records, so big is the improvement. I was thinking after that, if I try also a better internal wire, so may be I have a additional improvement.
Can you describe about these "varaitions of compromise..."
My other components: CD - Densen 400+, amp - Simaudio Moon I-5
Well, passive components don't actually produce sound themselves, so (QED) they don't have a 'sound' of their own per se. That doesn't mean that different wires will not change the sound though, because their electrical properties can and often does have an effect on the components they happen to be connecting. Most significant tends to be the amplifier-wire-speaker interface. Purely speaking in those terms, and generalising:
High wire resistance will result in the amplifier behaving more like a current source, or, if you prefer it in speaker terms, it will raise the apparant Qe of the driver, and lower its effective B*L. This will affect the box / whatever alignment.
High wire inductance (which goes hand in hand with low capacitance) will essentially result in a reduction in the upper BW; the HF will start to roll away. At what point & how quickly depends on how high the inductance is of course.
A high capacitance wire (which goes hand in hand with low inductance) is usually associated with wide BW, although the price is that it can cause severe oscillation in some amplifiers (Naim, NVA etc). This might also in some less extreme cases be percieved as 'brightening' the sound through overshoot causing some peaking at the top end.
So, essentially, you can use wire as tone controls. Doesn't have to be expensive; just tailor the electrical requirements to the sound you like. High inductance wire is often looked at with total horror for e.g., but if you have yourself a driver with a lot of HF peaking, it's a cunning way to bring it back into line. And so on. When it comes to materials etc., silver is marginally less resistive than copper, but it's not massive. Dilectric materials are a favourite of many advertisers, but whenever measured, it's been shown that even the ones looked at askance exhibit no unpleasent issues in our audible hearing BW. PVC is probably best avoided because it's lousy for the environment, and the chemicals present have been known to corrode conductors. Tin & gold aren't great conductors, although some companies do like to coat their wires with them to prevent corrosion over the long term, which isn't inherently a bad idea, although resistance will be a little higher than without. A couple of companies have started using solid gold conductors, clearly for people who have more money than sense, or know what to do with. There must be more to life than that.
Solid core is notionally best from an outright efficiency perspective, as, gauge for gauge, you get a little more material than stranded. There again, you could always go down the extreme route, get down the local electronics shop, & buy a few lengths of 6ga wire the car-audio brigade use. Resistance = no longer a matter of debate, although as conductor diameter goes up, so self-inductance will tend to rise, which is something to keep in mind.
0.8m - 0.9m is a very short run of wire, so I wouldn't expect any massive changes. If you're happy with what you're running as your main wire, why not just use that internally as well & have done with it? YMMV as ever of course.
High wire resistance will result in the amplifier behaving more like a current source, or, if you prefer it in speaker terms, it will raise the apparant Qe of the driver, and lower its effective B*L. This will affect the box / whatever alignment.
High wire inductance (which goes hand in hand with low capacitance) will essentially result in a reduction in the upper BW; the HF will start to roll away. At what point & how quickly depends on how high the inductance is of course.
A high capacitance wire (which goes hand in hand with low inductance) is usually associated with wide BW, although the price is that it can cause severe oscillation in some amplifiers (Naim, NVA etc). This might also in some less extreme cases be percieved as 'brightening' the sound through overshoot causing some peaking at the top end.
So, essentially, you can use wire as tone controls. Doesn't have to be expensive; just tailor the electrical requirements to the sound you like. High inductance wire is often looked at with total horror for e.g., but if you have yourself a driver with a lot of HF peaking, it's a cunning way to bring it back into line. And so on. When it comes to materials etc., silver is marginally less resistive than copper, but it's not massive. Dilectric materials are a favourite of many advertisers, but whenever measured, it's been shown that even the ones looked at askance exhibit no unpleasent issues in our audible hearing BW. PVC is probably best avoided because it's lousy for the environment, and the chemicals present have been known to corrode conductors. Tin & gold aren't great conductors, although some companies do like to coat their wires with them to prevent corrosion over the long term, which isn't inherently a bad idea, although resistance will be a little higher than without. A couple of companies have started using solid gold conductors, clearly for people who have more money than sense, or know what to do with. There must be more to life than that.
Solid core is notionally best from an outright efficiency perspective, as, gauge for gauge, you get a little more material than stranded. There again, you could always go down the extreme route, get down the local electronics shop, & buy a few lengths of 6ga wire the car-audio brigade use. Resistance = no longer a matter of debate, although as conductor diameter goes up, so self-inductance will tend to rise, which is something to keep in mind.
0.8m - 0.9m is a very short run of wire, so I wouldn't expect any massive changes. If you're happy with what you're running as your main wire, why not just use that internally as well & have done with it? YMMV as ever of course.
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Hi, Sergii,
I liked with Sonido mono wire from Rivne factory. Sorry will tell him in russian as hard to translate: обмоточный провод, медь, моножила, производит фвбрика в ровно. Я выбрал толстого сечения около 2 мм, понравилось.
Thank you very much for so long and detailed explanations.
I`ve got also the same information that the silver wire sounds not so massive like a cooper BUT now after I connected my new speaker cable - the sound was not thin, it has bass. It is also not bright like I have expected. It is very smooth.
Unfortunatelly I can buy this cable only as a work terminated product with defined length: up to 2; 2,5; 3 m...
It is "slinkylinks" from New Zealand.
In any way I would try some good silver core.
My question was also in relation to full range driver. The best are very good at midrange but on both ends may be not so good.
Now I need very transparent wire at midrange and a little bit more bright on top end but very smooth.
I`ve got also the same information that the silver wire sounds not so massive like a cooper BUT now after I connected my new speaker cable - the sound was not thin, it has bass. It is also not bright like I have expected. It is very smooth.
Unfortunatelly I can buy this cable only as a work terminated product with defined length: up to 2; 2,5; 3 m...
It is "slinkylinks" from New Zealand.
In any way I would try some good silver core.
My question was also in relation to full range driver. The best are very good at midrange but on both ends may be not so good.
Now I need very transparent wire at midrange and a little bit more bright on top end but very smooth.
I was refering only to the fact that silver is a little less resistive than copper, but not by a large amount. For reference, here are some bulk resistances measured in micro-ohms per cm, courtesy of Audioholics:
Silver 1.59
Copper 1.72
Gold 2.44
Aluminum 2.84
Zinc 5.8
Platinum 10.0
Steel 10.4
Tin 11.5
IIRC, the Sonido does roll off in the HF; there isn't a whole lot you can do with a piece of wire to prevent that, other than ensure inductance is low enough not to affect the audio band. That's not difficult, even perfectly ordinary 12ga zip cord is measured at only about 0.1dB down at 20KHz. Make sure your contacts are good though. They generally have caused more problems than any piece of wire ever has.
Silver 1.59
Copper 1.72
Gold 2.44
Aluminum 2.84
Zinc 5.8
Platinum 10.0
Steel 10.4
Tin 11.5
IIRC, the Sonido does roll off in the HF; there isn't a whole lot you can do with a piece of wire to prevent that, other than ensure inductance is low enough not to affect the audio band. That's not difficult, even perfectly ordinary 12ga zip cord is measured at only about 0.1dB down at 20KHz. Make sure your contacts are good though. They generally have caused more problems than any piece of wire ever has.
I was in doubt after building my speaker with FRD - should I add a tweeter? So I tried some tweeters (from monacor, SB acoustic) but the result was not acceptable. I also did not like crossovers with FRD. So I decided to live without some time and then we will see.
Now I forgot the whole story with adding tweeter, have HF but looking for some more detailed HF.
I used a short time my supra wire as a speaker cable. It has only midrange - no HF and DF.
Do you have some own experience with Mundorf silver cable? Cheap cooper core with silver coating will sound very harsh and digitalish but Mundorf isn`t.
Now I forgot the whole story with adding tweeter, have HF but looking for some more detailed HF.
I used a short time my supra wire as a speaker cable. It has only midrange - no HF and DF.
Do you have some own experience with Mundorf silver cable? Cheap cooper core with silver coating will sound very harsh and digitalish but Mundorf isn`t.
Frankly, and no offense, I regard anything along the lines of 'this material "sounds" like xyz' to be wishful thinking at best. Material in a wire cannot have a sound; all that is happening in it is that a signal is being passed along it (and to the best of my knowledge, nobody yet has managed to measure any non-linear distortion in wire. Not even a piece of rusting aluminium pulled from an old fence) from one component to the other. Differing LCR parameters can & do affect the components it links together (amps & speakers) which may have an audible effect on the sound depending on what the components are. But the material? Nope. Tried it on many occasions, & concluded that if you're comparing two wires with identical geometries, identical resistance, identical capacitance & identical inductance, they will sound the same.
I don't doubt that your system has improved since you installed the new wires, but I'm afraid my take is that you've simply hit upon a wire with an LCR combination that matches your components in such a way as to Eq them in a manner you prefer.
I don't doubt that your system has improved since you installed the new wires, but I'm afraid my take is that you've simply hit upon a wire with an LCR combination that matches your components in such a way as to Eq them in a manner you prefer.
Sergii,
I use now 175 in fronthorn from 200 till the uppeer end. Highs are MUCH better with hign current AMP. But it is good - because horn make up in the low mids, and current amp - at the highrer mid and highs.
I use now 175 in fronthorn from 200 till the uppeer end. Highs are MUCH better with hign current AMP. But it is good - because horn make up in the low mids, and current amp - at the highrer mid and highs.
I like to use military surplus teflon coated wire; if for no other reason, I smile after I strip the insulation, and think its easier to solder.
Bob
Bob
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