I got my hands on two NOS GE ECC88/6DJ8 tubes. When were they made?
The box for them says Recyclable Package. I would assume from that alone they were made sometime in the 80's. That is the time many municipalities became serious about recycling.
A number on each tube the tube says 188-5 in white letters. Above that there exists the letters NR in a larger font. In cursive in white letters there are the words "electronic tube" along with the GE logo and tube type.
In grey, its also says the tube type with U.S.A. printed below it. Below that there are four grey dots.
The box for them says Recyclable Package. I would assume from that alone they were made sometime in the 80's. That is the time many municipalities became serious about recycling.
A number on each tube the tube says 188-5 in white letters. Above that there exists the letters NR in a larger font. In cursive in white letters there are the words "electronic tube" along with the GE logo and tube type.
In grey, its also says the tube type with U.S.A. printed below it. Below that there are four grey dots.
Picture?
Please post a picture. I have GEs made by Mullard and by Tesla. The made in USA label is sometimes in correct, to put it kindly.
Steve
Please post a picture. I have GEs made by Mullard and by Tesla. The made in USA label is sometimes in correct, to put it kindly.
Steve
Hard to tell
A give away as to approximate origin is the colour of the pins where they go through the glass. The Russian and eastern European-made tubes look red (ironic huh?) where they pass through the glass. If you can take a close up picture of the getter ring (between the top of the tube "guts" and the shinny top) it sometimes gives a hint. I haven't seen all 6DJ8s but any GEs I've seen were not made in the US.
Cheers, Steve
A give away as to approximate origin is the colour of the pins where they go through the glass. The Russian and eastern European-made tubes look red (ironic huh?) where they pass through the glass. If you can take a close up picture of the getter ring (between the top of the tube "guts" and the shinny top) it sometimes gives a hint. I haven't seen all 6DJ8s but any GEs I've seen were not made in the US.
Cheers, Steve
The getter looks Western. The pin seals look Eastern bloc. The pins themselves look Western - Russian pins tend to be more shiny, stiffer and have pointed tips.
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I see the ubiquitous GE etched number and dots in this picture. That would indicate a US made tube. When GE sourced tubes from other vendors they would be print labeled but won't have the dots and number etched in the glass.
Then how did the bottle get the typical GE etched dots and tube number? IMHO the printing on the ink is not a good indicator of much. The dots/etching would be quite hard to "fake"; the printing not so much.
If it was a Philips valve then it would probably have glass seams on top and almost certainly have a Philips factory code near the base.
On reflection, the pin seals are not the bright red often seen on Russian valves so all the evidence so far points to manufacture in or for the US.
On reflection, the pin seals are not the bright red often seen on Russian valves so all the evidence so far points to manufacture in or for the US.
because phillips bought the machinery from rca during the rca/ge merger which was part of the continuation of the JAN project. If you look at a 80's nos rca tube, you'll see the same pins and the same circle bottom.
<I>"because phillips bought the machinery from rca during the rca/ge merger which was part of the continuation of the JAN project. "</I>
I question this information and your descriptions. "The JAN project"? JAN stands for "Joint Army-Navy" and had to do with developing common specifications for a number of items so both services could use the same parts/pieces whenever possible which lowered procurement costs.
The RCA Harrison NJ plant which was RCAs primary maker of receiving tubes closed in 1976. RCA did market tubes after that date, but they were tubes that were made by other US and European makers (quite often by GE) that were marketed as RCA.
And while GE did take over RCA in 1986 (it was not a merger, it was a GE takeover) I have never heard of nor can I find evidence of what specific machinery from the now long ago closed RCA tube making operations went to where.
And the tubes with etched tube numbers and that specific dot pattern were made by GE, NOT by RCA or any Philips company.
So it seems to me the vast majority of the evidence indicates a GE made tube.
Before this gets out of control I'm getting out of this discussion. But I will say on the way out that in the 40+ years I've been involved with tubes and tube audio I have never even heard of what you claim occurred.
I question this information and your descriptions. "The JAN project"? JAN stands for "Joint Army-Navy" and had to do with developing common specifications for a number of items so both services could use the same parts/pieces whenever possible which lowered procurement costs.
The RCA Harrison NJ plant which was RCAs primary maker of receiving tubes closed in 1976. RCA did market tubes after that date, but they were tubes that were made by other US and European makers (quite often by GE) that were marketed as RCA.
And while GE did take over RCA in 1986 (it was not a merger, it was a GE takeover) I have never heard of nor can I find evidence of what specific machinery from the now long ago closed RCA tube making operations went to where.
And the tubes with etched tube numbers and that specific dot pattern were made by GE, NOT by RCA or any Philips company.
So it seems to me the vast majority of the evidence indicates a GE made tube.
Before this gets out of control I'm getting out of this discussion. But I will say on the way out that in the 40+ years I've been involved with tubes and tube audio I have never even heard of what you claim occurred.
What I have heard was just the opposite. That is when the tube era was dying off
and companies were liquidating/selling off, getting rid of their tube manufacturing
process and semi finished and raw materials, our favorite uncle didn't want them
to all go to one place, i.e.; neither the eastern bloc nor the red bloc.
This goes along with what Mr. McShane was stating. Also, who else is going to
etch the GE dot pattern into a tube? GE is still the copyright/trademark holder
and I guarantee you if anyone did use their "Mark" they'd be litigated for it.
So, our Uncle Sam being worried and to keep our national interests in tact did this,
enabled the power tube assets to only go to the eastern bloc while the small receiving tubes and transmitting tubes went to the red bloc.
Somewhere, someone posted information and/or pics about WE power tube equipment
being seen in the EI factory.
Then there were those fabulous Chinese 12AX7A pre amp tubes from the 70s-80s era
that took tons of abuse and still live in many MI and Stereo amplifiers. The Chinese
12AX7s after this era never seemed to be as good or last as long.
I always thought that the good US grid wire and plate material got used up.
This was confirmed to me by and older engineer who stated it was published
in one of the IEEE or other EE engineering publications. Heck maybe even
Aviation Week or or another pub? Someone with "research database" access
should be able to confirm pretty simply.
Cheers,
Sync
and companies were liquidating/selling off, getting rid of their tube manufacturing
process and semi finished and raw materials, our favorite uncle didn't want them
to all go to one place, i.e.; neither the eastern bloc nor the red bloc.
This goes along with what Mr. McShane was stating. Also, who else is going to
etch the GE dot pattern into a tube? GE is still the copyright/trademark holder
and I guarantee you if anyone did use their "Mark" they'd be litigated for it.
So, our Uncle Sam being worried and to keep our national interests in tact did this,
enabled the power tube assets to only go to the eastern bloc while the small receiving tubes and transmitting tubes went to the red bloc.
Somewhere, someone posted information and/or pics about WE power tube equipment
being seen in the EI factory.
Then there were those fabulous Chinese 12AX7A pre amp tubes from the 70s-80s era
that took tons of abuse and still live in many MI and Stereo amplifiers. The Chinese
12AX7s after this era never seemed to be as good or last as long.
I always thought that the good US grid wire and plate material got used up.
This was confirmed to me by and older engineer who stated it was published
in one of the IEEE or other EE engineering publications. Heck maybe even
Aviation Week or or another pub? Someone with "research database" access
should be able to confirm pretty simply.
Cheers,
Sync
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Why would Philips want to buy RCA tooling when they were perfectly capable of making an ECC88 themselves? By the 1980s Philips would probably have been getting rid of their own tooling - I think it went to places like Ei in Serbia and BEL in India.
The tube in question looks like an ordinary late 70's GE 6DJ8 to me. I don't keep a lot of tubes here at the office, but I've attached a poor pic of an '82 JAN Sylvania 6DJ8. The tube in the OP pic is not a Sylvania.
I have not seen a genuine RCA receiving tube manufactured after 1976. After that date, the receiving tubes were mostly Sylvania manufacture, some GE.
GE and Sylvania ( or Philips/ECG - whatever you want to call them ) were cranking out JAN tubes well into the late 1980's.
As I said, I don't keep a lot of tubes here at my office, but I easily located a last year RCA 6V6 from 1976, a couple of Philips JAN tubes from '87, and a GE JAN 12BA6 from '87.
MY WAG would be that Richardson got the RCA manufactuing equipment they wanted, when it was auctioned off. I thought I read somewhere the accompanying intellectual property was mostly abandoned or destroyed.
Win W5JAG
I have not seen a genuine RCA receiving tube manufactured after 1976. After that date, the receiving tubes were mostly Sylvania manufacture, some GE.
GE and Sylvania ( or Philips/ECG - whatever you want to call them ) were cranking out JAN tubes well into the late 1980's.
As I said, I don't keep a lot of tubes here at my office, but I easily located a last year RCA 6V6 from 1976, a couple of Philips JAN tubes from '87, and a GE JAN 12BA6 from '87.
MY WAG would be that Richardson got the RCA manufactuing equipment they wanted, when it was auctioned off. I thought I read somewhere the accompanying intellectual property was mostly abandoned or destroyed.
Win W5JAG
Attachments
Foreign manufacture consumer grade tubes marketed by GE had slightly different boxes: "country of origin as marked on tube", or something like that.
Like this 6GB5:
edit: or the actual country of origin, as with this 5881. Note the absence of the laser etched dots.
Dang, I had more tubes here than I thought.
Win W5JAG
Like this 6GB5:
edit: or the actual country of origin, as with this 5881. Note the absence of the laser etched dots.
Dang, I had more tubes here than I thought.
Win W5JAG
Attachments
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