Hello, I'm thinking about building a set of speakers and was curious as to your recommendations as to a first project. Would it be better to start with a kit to see if I like it, or get a book and/or software and jump right in?
As to kits, I was thinking about something from either Madisound or Zalytron or maybe the Adire 281. I also like the kits at Parts Eexpress but would like to do my own cabinets and they don't seem to be available that way. The Adires are the most expensive I would like to go for a first set. If I find I enjoy it, you won't be able to get rid of me! Not being able to listen to them is a big handicap. These would be for stereo listening only, replacing a set of JBL century 100s in a 20 X 21 X 8 room with lots of windows. Amp is Adcom Gfa1 with parasound preamp and old denon cd player.
My other set of speakers are B&W CDM-1 SE with ASW-1000 sub. I find the B&W mids are much better than the JBLs.
I listen mostly to jazz and classical with rock thrown in once in a while. The B&Ws don't seem near as good with rock.
Thanks for the help.
Tony
As to kits, I was thinking about something from either Madisound or Zalytron or maybe the Adire 281. I also like the kits at Parts Eexpress but would like to do my own cabinets and they don't seem to be available that way. The Adires are the most expensive I would like to go for a first set. If I find I enjoy it, you won't be able to get rid of me! Not being able to listen to them is a big handicap. These would be for stereo listening only, replacing a set of JBL century 100s in a 20 X 21 X 8 room with lots of windows. Amp is Adcom Gfa1 with parasound preamp and old denon cd player.
My other set of speakers are B&W CDM-1 SE with ASW-1000 sub. I find the B&W mids are much better than the JBLs.
I listen mostly to jazz and classical with rock thrown in once in a while. The B&Ws don't seem near as good with rock.
Thanks for the help.
Tony
You're going to get a large amount of suggestions so I'll start first. It would be good to know your budget. Since you consider the 281 somewhat expensive that gives me an idea. IMHO, you should start with a kit that includes the drivers and crossover. Building a cabinet isn't the most difficult part and a good solid box should work fine. There are several kits for less than $200/pr that will serve you well. I'll put in my recommendation for an entry level kit.
http://www.selahaudio.com/rc2.html
http://www.selahaudio.com/rc2.html
The RC2 doesn't look too bad. Would it be able to fill a 20 X21 room? The bass response might be a little weak for classical I think. I'm not really sure. What do the string basses go down to?
This is my budget for a first set. If I don't screw it up and have a good time, it will go up consideably.
Tony
This is my budget for a first set. If I don't screw it up and have a good time, it will go up consideably.
Tony
Getting a full range sound (bass good enough for the entire range of a string bass) in a single package is going to cost a bit. I think the best economical plan I have seen offering this type of performance is Dennis Murphy's Vifa Tower. He has considerable experience working a few crossovers (he did the Ellis Audio 1801's) : http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=New_Vifa_Tower.html
The Mackie HR824 studio monitors use a cheaper vifa woofer to get pretty good mids and bass and they used a smaller box with a covered up passive radiator, so I'm sure Dennis made a pretty good sounding speaker with his Vifa Tower. I'd have built it myself, but the woodwork scared me away.
The Mackie HR824 studio monitors use a cheaper vifa woofer to get pretty good mids and bass and they used a smaller box with a covered up passive radiator, so I'm sure Dennis made a pretty good sounding speaker with his Vifa Tower. I'd have built it myself, but the woodwork scared me away.
All right, I'm not really sure about what filling a room means either. I guess I'm assuming that, a radiation pattern of sound will dissapate into a given volume and perceived SPL will be a function of the energy in the wave. Bass energy SPL will decrease as a function of room size. Maybe I should buy a speaker design book. Am I out to lunch?
The graph you show implies that I will be losing the low end of string bass and piano with the RC2. Is that right? I listen to a LOT of piano music.
Tony
The graph you show implies that I will be losing the low end of string bass and piano with the RC2. Is that right? I listen to a LOT of piano music.
Tony
That's right. However, it's surprising how little you really miss when everything else sounds good. Besides, how many piano players spend their time on the far left end? Oh, and when you're ready for some serious listening don't you do it in the (somewhat) near field where room reflections are kept to a minimum? Maybe even toeing in the speakers? Just food for thought🙂
Yes, you'll be missing out on the impact of the lowest notes of a string bass and definitely on piano. But in practical terms, a piano piece rarely goes that low, and even in the occasional piece that does go that low, it doesn't stay down there. Dennis Murphy's vifa tower will cover just about everything you can ask for, however. There's no choice at this price range. Every decent 2 way value minded speaker out there costs in this range, and if it's under a 7", you're just not going to get under an F3 of 50hz with these budget woofers. If you stretched your budget to about $300 ($250 parts, $30 unfinished box, finish of your choice,) I was just reminded of the Lyra on speakerbuilder.net. http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Projects/Lyra/lyramain.htm . The 10" will give you decent bass in a sealed box. I think room gain will probably get you usable bass down to 35-40hz. From the FR graph, it looks like F10 is down around 28hz. Room gain at that frequency range would most likely boost it quite nicely.
Hehe, I actually use a pair of studio monitors for ALL of my listening in a nearfield situation at my computer. They're NHT Pro monitors, using NHT's angled baffles... 🙂 Boy, did you call that one or what?? 🙂
Still, I'm looking into slapping a subwoofer together 😛
Still, I'm looking into slapping a subwoofer together 😛
Timn8ter said:
Good point. I tend to listen to my B&Ws about 9' away with them toed in a bit. On the other hand, when I'm getting down with the weights or nordic track, I turn up the volume and use rock to develop timing to my sweat!
All right. So far every speaker suggested looks interesting in its own way. The Vifa tower looks good, but the cabinet design is sketchy. The Lyra looks very interesting also, but once again specifics on the cabinet interior are sparse. Open box with sound damping material glued inside? Anybody actually built one of these? How do you pick? The RC2 seems the most complete as to details.
Tony
Tony
I have all the details you need for the vifa tower right here.
http://subwoofers.cc/HomeAud/Kits/opal/opalcabinetplans.pdf
You don't need to follow the bracing layout exactly, and you don't need to worry about the diagrams for the dacron and foam. Basically, slap the box together with braces placed somewhat in the golden ratio distances (you can't get it perfect because the tweeter is in the way) and stuff it to taste. You'll have to port the box at the bottom rear. Exact placement is not critical. The braces will just be shelf braces, meaning a slab of wood cut to the inner dimensions, then make some holes in it. Size of holes and amount not that important, just don't make the holes too big or too many, or the brace goes to waste. Dennis provided a target brace volume specification as a guideline. You could make the braces just as shown in the drawing.
I would make a brace with multiple smaller holes and use it as the bottommost brace. That way, you can put the stuffing above the brace and it will keep it out of the way of the port at the bottom of the box.
I really should build this speaker, after I did all the research and found sources for all the parts...
http://subwoofers.cc/HomeAud/Kits/opal/opalcabinetplans.pdf
You don't need to follow the bracing layout exactly, and you don't need to worry about the diagrams for the dacron and foam. Basically, slap the box together with braces placed somewhat in the golden ratio distances (you can't get it perfect because the tweeter is in the way) and stuff it to taste. You'll have to port the box at the bottom rear. Exact placement is not critical. The braces will just be shelf braces, meaning a slab of wood cut to the inner dimensions, then make some holes in it. Size of holes and amount not that important, just don't make the holes too big or too many, or the brace goes to waste. Dennis provided a target brace volume specification as a guideline. You could make the braces just as shown in the drawing.
I would make a brace with multiple smaller holes and use it as the bottommost brace. That way, you can put the stuffing above the brace and it will keep it out of the way of the port at the bottom of the box.
I really should build this speaker, after I did all the research and found sources for all the parts...
If we built every design idea that popped in our heads we wouldn't have room for furniture 😀
(or money)
Funiture? who said you cant have furnature, why those huge floorstanders on their sides with cushions is my sofa, that er SY coffin loudspeaker is my bed (ye i know kinda morbid)😀
Thanks for all the suggestions. After looking at the designs for a couple of days and firing a message to Dennis Murphy who answered my questions, I've decided on his Vifa Tower design.
After I get all the parts and start construction I will probably have a number of questions for you guys.
Tony
After I get all the parts and start construction I will probably have a number of questions for you guys.
Tony
Dennis is great! He answered many of my annoying newbie questions when I'm sure I was being a nuisance. That's another reason why I feel bad for not building his speakers. They use good woofers and I trust his crossover work, I see no reason for not eventually building one for home theater use.
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