Question
Hi, i am a beginer in this field.
I like to build one speaker using FE206E.
a.
I like dry transient bass, no slow trambeling woofers.
Wich type is recomended for modern jazz?
1. Quarterwawe
2. BIB
3.Zigmahorn
b.
Is it possible to direct the sound from the mouth, example BIB,
using 45 angel opening (like a bended duct) . In order to focus sound energy to the listener?
BR
Tomas
Hi, i am a beginer in this field.
I like to build one speaker using FE206E.
a.
I like dry transient bass, no slow trambeling woofers.
Wich type is recomended for modern jazz?
1. Quarterwawe
2. BIB
3.Zigmahorn
b.
Is it possible to direct the sound from the mouth, example BIB,
using 45 angel opening (like a bended duct) . In order to focus sound energy to the listener?
BR
Tomas
a) There isn't a Zigmahornet for the 206 AFAIK. The BIB will kill the others in the LF -large cabinet volume has its advantages, if you have the space.
b) Not a good idea. The BIB is a corner horn (though a rear-wall works fine) & uses the room to complete the horn flare. Remove that, you've only got part of the horn & ripple will increase due to the 'mouth' (which is really only a terminus) being under-sized & the acoustic-impedance mismatch. Part of the beauty of the BIB is the very spacious, almost dipole-like sound it gives to the LF anyway.
b) Not a good idea. The BIB is a corner horn (though a rear-wall works fine) & uses the room to complete the horn flare. Remove that, you've only got part of the horn & ripple will increase due to the 'mouth' (which is really only a terminus) being under-sized & the acoustic-impedance mismatch. Part of the beauty of the BIB is the very spacious, almost dipole-like sound it gives to the LF anyway.
Re: Question
You may want to look at these:
http://www.frugal-horn.com/spawn.html
Hint: Use a descriptive question so we know your subject like FE 208 etc. etc.
toen said:
You may want to look at these:
http://www.frugal-horn.com/spawn.html
Hint: Use a descriptive question so we know your subject like FE 208 etc. etc.
Re: Re: Question
Also on that page you can click on Rons Horns and see the DallasII horns that many regard highly...
The BIB would be my choice just for fun, but they'd be mighty tall.. LF from the BIB's are killer and I'm only using fe108's.... Dave🙂
loninappleton said:
Also on that page you can click on Rons Horns and see the DallasII horns that many regard highly...
The BIB would be my choice just for fun, but they'd be mighty tall.. LF from the BIB's are killer and I'm only using fe108's.... Dave🙂
Is it possible to direct the sound from the mouth, example BIB,
using 45 angel opening (like a bended duct) . In order to focus sound energy to the listener?
That might kill the effect of the upward firing mouth. However an angled mouth forward would work.
Exception, i would not want to live above a BIB, unless you want a foot massage.
ron
using 45 angel opening (like a bended duct) . In order to focus sound energy to the listener?
That might kill the effect of the upward firing mouth. However an angled mouth forward would work.
Exception, i would not want to live above a BIB, unless you want a foot massage.
ron
Gee i exceeded my 30 min limit on an edit.
I am not a big fan of directing an exit wave directly to a 90 degree reflecting surface ,as in the upward firing BIB. Energies that are reflected re-enter the mouth and can cause a cancellation/re-enforcement of the exiting wave in a time /phase/energy alteration effect. This can cause a lumpy FR curve.
ron
I am not a big fan of directing an exit wave directly to a 90 degree reflecting surface ,as in the upward firing BIB. Energies that are reflected re-enter the mouth and can cause a cancellation/re-enforcement of the exiting wave in a time /phase/energy alteration effect. This can cause a lumpy FR curve.
ron
Thanks´s for your answer. A lot of impressing knowledege out there.
The spawn family looks really nice.
I found a really nice picture from scottmouse in this forum, i think it was some variant from frugel, with rounded back. Really good looking, called Bruce or something.
I have another question regarding horns like the frugel.
a)The soundwave from the speaker must travel shorter way compered to the wave traveling inside the horn. Will this causing any strange effect due the sound hits the ear with some delays?
b) Is the frugeltype the best option if i want a dry fast transient bass with FE206?
BR
Tomas
The spawn family looks really nice.
I found a really nice picture from scottmouse in this forum, i think it was some variant from frugel, with rounded back. Really good looking, called Bruce or something.
I have another question regarding horns like the frugel.
a)The soundwave from the speaker must travel shorter way compered to the wave traveling inside the horn. Will this causing any strange effect due the sound hits the ear with some delays?
b) Is the frugeltype the best option if i want a dry fast transient bass with FE206?
BR
Tomas
Scott, that looks like an interesting idea! My BIBs are in a room with a low ceiling. Thanks for the suggestion.
ronc said:
True, and the best sounding bass-horn systems I've auditioned were ones that were designed to have complimentary 'ripple' to the room's to yield a ~flat in-room response.
GM
toen said:
It will if the acoustic XO from the horn to the driver is high enough to be in our acute hearing BW which is to a great extent room and individual dependent, though as a general rule it varies from ~200 - 400 Hz and in theory any well designed BLH should adhere to this with the lower the better. Since the 206 has a > 400 Hz mass corner (beginning of its theoretically flat BW), some form of EQ will be required in such an alignment, usually in the form of a high output impedance tube amp or an RC filter with plenty of clean low output impedance power.
No BLH < a theoretically 'perfect' one is the 'best' option for a 'dry', 'fast' transient bass. Indeed , the two are mutually exclusive. Typically, a comparably low Q, low Fs, wide BW driver ($$$) in a large IB or EBS vented alignment XO'd to a separate low Q mids/HF system is the minimum, with all FH loaded being the goal.
GM
Hi GM.
Did i understand right?
1. Sound quality are effected badly regarding BLH due to delayed sound from the mouth.
2. Best dry, transient bas is from a large sealed box with resonance frekvency below speakers resonance frekvency?
I am a real beginner in this field so i don´t understand all technical terms yet.
BR
Tomas
Did i understand right?
1. Sound quality are effected badly regarding BLH due to delayed sound from the mouth.
2. Best dry, transient bas is from a large sealed box with resonance frekvency below speakers resonance frekvency?
I am a real beginner in this field so i don´t understand all technical terms yet.
BR
Tomas
Greets!
1) Yes, that, and for other typical design trade-offs to keep its size semi-acceptable.
2) The theoretically ideal sealed cab alignment is a 0.5 Qtc (cab quality factor), which means it rolls off down low at 6 dB/octave (AKA 1st order slope), so the driver must have a Qts (driver quality factor) no > 0.5 and preferably somewhat < 0.5 and the cab's resonant frequency (Fb) will be somewhat > the driver's Fs, ergo for a low Fb the driver must have a very low Fs.
If vented, you typically want to tune the cab to the driver's Fs, or even lower in some cases, which typically requires a large cab (AKA extended bass shelf (EBS) alignment), ergo choose an Fs and/or Fb that goes ~ as low as your source material is likely to have, which is typically ~27 Hz for regular music to < 16 Hz for some pipe organ, electronic music and movie soundtracks.
AFA learning this stuff, you're trying to start out at an advanced level, so get a good 'foundation' of Thiele-Small (T/S) theory and how to interpret what box programs are telling you, etc., then work your way up to non-standard alignments, TL, horns, etc.. Of course there's exceptions based on the room, etc., but you'll learn all about it while researching all this.
GM
1) Yes, that, and for other typical design trade-offs to keep its size semi-acceptable.
2) The theoretically ideal sealed cab alignment is a 0.5 Qtc (cab quality factor), which means it rolls off down low at 6 dB/octave (AKA 1st order slope), so the driver must have a Qts (driver quality factor) no > 0.5 and preferably somewhat < 0.5 and the cab's resonant frequency (Fb) will be somewhat > the driver's Fs, ergo for a low Fb the driver must have a very low Fs.
If vented, you typically want to tune the cab to the driver's Fs, or even lower in some cases, which typically requires a large cab (AKA extended bass shelf (EBS) alignment), ergo choose an Fs and/or Fb that goes ~ as low as your source material is likely to have, which is typically ~27 Hz for regular music to < 16 Hz for some pipe organ, electronic music and movie soundtracks.
AFA learning this stuff, you're trying to start out at an advanced level, so get a good 'foundation' of Thiele-Small (T/S) theory and how to interpret what box programs are telling you, etc., then work your way up to non-standard alignments, TL, horns, etc.. Of course there's exceptions based on the room, etc., but you'll learn all about it while researching all this.
GM
Tian, here you can read in swedish about my latest horn project
which turned out really good. So good that when me end my
girlfrend went to listen to B&W 802D with classe rig, she asked
me to turn it of because it sounded so terrible and boring...
http://www.hififorum.nu/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=63085
It was designed for FE206E, but i currently use FP203 instead.
Planing to trade up later.
/Petter
which turned out really good. So good that when me end my
girlfrend went to listen to B&W 802D with classe rig, she asked
me to turn it of because it sounded so terrible and boring...
http://www.hififorum.nu/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=63085
It was designed for FE206E, but i currently use FP203 instead.
Planing to trade up later.
/Petter
Greets!
Impressive! I agree, ignoring B@#$, the B&W line are some of the most overrated speakers I've auditioned. They're just another 'pretty face' to me, making their 'beauty' only 'skin' deep.
GM
Impressive! I agree, ignoring B@#$, the B&W line are some of the most overrated speakers I've auditioned. They're just another 'pretty face' to me, making their 'beauty' only 'skin' deep.
GM
As i have built the A166 and delivered to my SO i will be building the 206 Houston for my personal use. The mod will be named the H206. It will incorporate a FH/BLH with a wave dispersition at 6 Khz which will be a part of the FLH action. I have balanced the energies throught the spectrum on this application. The unit will have a curved front which will act as an focus element between the lower frequencies (and position of the mouth) and the upper horn.
This has taken me over one (1) year to develope. This build is going to a contractor whom i have worked with in the past. It is my attempt to incorporate a FLH/BLH in a single driver application.
Its the best i can do.
ron
This has taken me over one (1) year to develope. This build is going to a contractor whom i have worked with in the past. It is my attempt to incorporate a FLH/BLH in a single driver application.
Its the best i can do.
ron
This I shall watch with interest... I have this strange feeling it'll be good. 🙂
Yeah, B&W are not exactly my cup of tea either. I have a particular dislike of the kevlar cones they're currently obsessed with. Mediocre for the money.
Yeah, B&W are not exactly my cup of tea either. I have a particular dislike of the kevlar cones they're currently obsessed with. Mediocre for the money.
I have this strange feeling it'll be good.
It will be. Its the accumulation of mathematical calculation that is the best than i can accomplish. With the new 206 (phase plug) its looking at low 30 hz wall floor loaded with a 4 db maximum deviation from 35 hz thru 20Khz.
I realize this a bold statement, but its achievable.
The major problem was incorporaton the actions into a singular response. II had to fragment the programming and then combine the results into a singular action. My end result was a balance between TL/BLH/FLH action with the intergration of the curved "mouth" to combine the actions.
The thing i was missing before was the HF dispersition which lowers the on axis response.( I am slow , i am a Texan) but with proper calculation of the waveform and deflection of the energy being "broadcast" into the FLH action can be balanced.
It was a tremendous effort. Again, its the best i can do given that i am a tired old man who wants nothing more than to go fly fishing in upstate NY with his lady and build ultra hi-po trikes.
ron
It will be. Its the accumulation of mathematical calculation that is the best than i can accomplish. With the new 206 (phase plug) its looking at low 30 hz wall floor loaded with a 4 db maximum deviation from 35 hz thru 20Khz.
I realize this a bold statement, but its achievable.
The major problem was incorporaton the actions into a singular response. II had to fragment the programming and then combine the results into a singular action. My end result was a balance between TL/BLH/FLH action with the intergration of the curved "mouth" to combine the actions.
The thing i was missing before was the HF dispersition which lowers the on axis response.( I am slow , i am a Texan) but with proper calculation of the waveform and deflection of the energy being "broadcast" into the FLH action can be balanced.
It was a tremendous effort. Again, its the best i can do given that i am a tired old man who wants nothing more than to go fly fishing in upstate NY with his lady and build ultra hi-po trikes.
ron
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