Hi, i have got an old Ess AMT1 (the big one),
last week i meassured them and there is a peak of 6db at 7,5kHz.
Are all older Ess so bad?
Or do i need a new ribbon?
Has anyone experiences with thes older Ess´s
Whats to do ?
thanks,
Ralf
last week i meassured them and there is a peak of 6db at 7,5kHz.
Are all older Ess so bad?
Or do i need a new ribbon?
Has anyone experiences with thes older Ess´s
Whats to do ?
thanks,
Ralf
Quite a few ribbons appear to need a series low Q notch filter
due to the inherent acoustics of the magnet structure.
🙂 sreten.
due to the inherent acoustics of the magnet structure.
🙂 sreten.
Hi Ralf
Do You mean the complete Ess AMT1 with 12" woofer and the Heil unit on top? In that case the crossover is useless, it´s actually a 3 way filter used in a two way system.
Components are ok except for two lousy wirewound pots.
If You meassured onle the Heil AMT unit its either broken or something went wrong in the meassurment setup.
If You use the complete Ess speaker i can send schematic on filter to make it work really ok!
Do You mean the complete Ess AMT1 with 12" woofer and the Heil unit on top? In that case the crossover is useless, it´s actually a 3 way filter used in a two way system.
Components are ok except for two lousy wirewound pots.
If You meassured onle the Heil AMT unit its either broken or something went wrong in the meassurment setup.
If You use the complete Ess speaker i can send schematic on filter to make it work really ok!
Back again,
The Heil Air Motion Transformer is not a ribbon!
Its an almost purely resistive load and the simplest thing to drive.
Observe that it is bipolar, forward and backward sound are in phase so placement is important.
The Heil Air Motion Transformer is not a ribbon!
Its an almost purely resistive load and the simplest thing to drive.
Observe that it is bipolar, forward and backward sound are in phase so placement is important.
only the ESS Tweeter
..i messured the tweeters, only.
the messurements were taken in two diffrent rooms, in different differences and the result was the same.
If really the magnetic system is so bad, i can thow the Ess in the shredder, because a notch filter is sonicaly bad...
But i hope someone will tell me, that replacing the ribbon will solve my problems
Ralf
..i messured the tweeters, only.
the messurements were taken in two diffrent rooms, in different differences and the result was the same.
If really the magnetic system is so bad, i can thow the Ess in the shredder, because a notch filter is sonicaly bad...
But i hope someone will tell me, that replacing the ribbon will solve my problems
Ralf
The magnetsystem is just two big blocks, one on each side of the diaphragm, nothing wrong with that.
Changing diaphragm without destroying the new one is tricky.
If the diaphragm is broken it will actually sound real bad, bussing and clicking.
How far from backwall was the amt placed when You did the meassurement?
Changing diaphragm without destroying the new one is tricky.
If the diaphragm is broken it will actually sound real bad, bussing and clicking.
How far from backwall was the amt placed when You did the meassurement?
ingvar ahlberg said:
The same is true for most ribbons, see :
http://ldsg.snippets.org/AUDIO/LIBRARY/ribbonFAQ.htm
🙂 sreten.
ESS AMT 1A's Need crossover schematic
I've had my early ESS AMT 1A's since about 1974. S/N's are pretty low 477 & 383. I bought them used at Hoffman's house of Stereo in Cleveland for around $400 for the pair while I was in high school. I drove from Youngstown, about 60 miles away to buy these puppies. I had to fit them in the back seat of my Volkswagen beetle. I loved the sound of these speakers compared to the Advents and such that were popular at the time.
They have been in my basement collecting dust since 2001 when the foam surrounds went bad for the second time. I bought a pair of Paradigms Studio 100 Rev. 2 to replace them. I was going to throw them out but my wife insisted we keep them. She hates to throw anything away. Now eight years later I miss the sound after reading some of the posts here. So I am in the process of reviving them. I have replaced the passive radiators, L-pad's and refoamed the woofers. Last thing I need to do is replace the capacitors in the crossover and maybe do a new board for the crossover. I have a spare pair of the ribbon diaphragms. I had to replace my original ones in college, I melted them, trying to drive them too loud with a 35 watt Kenwood integrated amp. Once I built a Leach super amp in college (200 watts/channel) I never had a problem melting the tweeters again. I guess I was clipping the little Kenwood (KT-3500 quite a bit.
Does anyone have the original crossover schematic for these? If so can you post it or email me.
Also, I am interested in doing a DIY speaker with a better woofer or midrange driver. I see that there have been numerous posts and some photo's on these projects. Has anyone done one recently?
I've had my early ESS AMT 1A's since about 1974. S/N's are pretty low 477 & 383. I bought them used at Hoffman's house of Stereo in Cleveland for around $400 for the pair while I was in high school. I drove from Youngstown, about 60 miles away to buy these puppies. I had to fit them in the back seat of my Volkswagen beetle. I loved the sound of these speakers compared to the Advents and such that were popular at the time.
They have been in my basement collecting dust since 2001 when the foam surrounds went bad for the second time. I bought a pair of Paradigms Studio 100 Rev. 2 to replace them. I was going to throw them out but my wife insisted we keep them. She hates to throw anything away. Now eight years later I miss the sound after reading some of the posts here. So I am in the process of reviving them. I have replaced the passive radiators, L-pad's and refoamed the woofers. Last thing I need to do is replace the capacitors in the crossover and maybe do a new board for the crossover. I have a spare pair of the ribbon diaphragms. I had to replace my original ones in college, I melted them, trying to drive them too loud with a 35 watt Kenwood integrated amp. Once I built a Leach super amp in college (200 watts/channel) I never had a problem melting the tweeters again. I guess I was clipping the little Kenwood (KT-3500 quite a bit.
Does anyone have the original crossover schematic for these? If so can you post it or email me.
Also, I am interested in doing a DIY speaker with a better woofer or midrange driver. I see that there have been numerous posts and some photo's on these projects. Has anyone done one recently?
ESS AMT's Upgrades
Steve,
Almost a year later and I have not done much with them. I spent some time last month looking at other's projects for these great speakers and I did get schematic's from someone that was kind enough to send them.
The speakers actually sound pretty good but I am sure they would sound better with higher quality woofers and mid speakers. I recently purchased a pair of used paradigm Studio 20's to compliment my Studio 100's so I have not been in a hurry to do anything.
I hope to get back on this project in the fall with a new cabinet and some better support speakers. I want something that will look a bit more modern and sound great. I was contemplating buying a used pair pair of paradigm 100's or 60's and experimenting using the Heil with them to replace the speakers above 2KHz.
Steve,
Almost a year later and I have not done much with them. I spent some time last month looking at other's projects for these great speakers and I did get schematic's from someone that was kind enough to send them.
The speakers actually sound pretty good but I am sure they would sound better with higher quality woofers and mid speakers. I recently purchased a pair of used paradigm Studio 20's to compliment my Studio 100's so I have not been in a hurry to do anything.
I hope to get back on this project in the fall with a new cabinet and some better support speakers. I want something that will look a bit more modern and sound great. I was contemplating buying a used pair pair of paradigm 100's or 60's and experimenting using the Heil with them to replace the speakers above 2KHz.
I have investigated the high frequency peaks (there are more than one) in the AMT's. It is a diffraction issue caused by the discontinuity where the pole pieces cease to be visible and the plastic magnet cover begins. The magnitude of the peak(s) are quite strongly listening/measurement angle dependent.
I was able to reduce the peaks by filling the magnet discontinuity with car body filler type of material. I only applied it to one side, so that the peaks would have been in the diffuse field from the rear radiation but not in the direct sound. The exercise is not without risk as a ferrous application tool such as a broad knife is going to be very attracted by the magnet, putting the membrane at risk. Also the catalyst/hardener fumes may not be good for the membrane. I covered the membrane with a length of packing tape running the length of it. To prevent the sticky side of the tape coming in contact where not wanted you could defeat the stickiness by applying a narrower strip of tape down the centre non sticky side out. When doing this exercise it becomes apparent that the pole pieces themselves are not a flat surface so it is hard to know where to stop.
Keith
I was able to reduce the peaks by filling the magnet discontinuity with car body filler type of material. I only applied it to one side, so that the peaks would have been in the diffuse field from the rear radiation but not in the direct sound. The exercise is not without risk as a ferrous application tool such as a broad knife is going to be very attracted by the magnet, putting the membrane at risk. Also the catalyst/hardener fumes may not be good for the membrane. I covered the membrane with a length of packing tape running the length of it. To prevent the sticky side of the tape coming in contact where not wanted you could defeat the stickiness by applying a narrower strip of tape down the centre non sticky side out. When doing this exercise it becomes apparent that the pole pieces themselves are not a flat surface so it is hard to know where to stop.
Keith
I think ESS changed diaphragm materials over the years
and supposedly the replacement dia's have a smoother
response?
and supposedly the replacement dia's have a smoother
response?
yes you are right they changed the diaphragm and this have to be considered in the crossover. I own the original model and it seems to be decent quality at least the measurement indicates this.
Listening to the HEIL's is fantastic, they are airy smooth and sound great. A lot of good speakers to not measure perfect like Lowthers or also my Altec, but they sound great.
So i can only encourage everybody who has a pair to give them a serious try with drawing conclusions upfront.
The original Heil with one woofer is simply crap. The woofer is too slow for the HEIL and the crossover frequency is too low. Swapping parts will not solve the design problems of this speaker.
I'm using two PHL E20-2460 in combination with an AMT1. Crossover is attached. This one ONLY works with the old AMT1 not having the yellowish ribbon !
Listening to the HEIL's is fantastic, they are airy smooth and sound great. A lot of good speakers to not measure perfect like Lowthers or also my Altec, but they sound great.
So i can only encourage everybody who has a pair to give them a serious try with drawing conclusions upfront.
The original Heil with one woofer is simply crap. The woofer is too slow for the HEIL and the crossover frequency is too low. Swapping parts will not solve the design problems of this speaker.
I'm using two PHL E20-2460 in combination with an AMT1. Crossover is attached. This one ONLY works with the old AMT1 not having the yellowish ribbon !
Re: Ess
while the in room acoustic measurement is important, the first thing to try is to get the direct energy of the ribbon only. So, I would suggest measuring the Air Motion device just in front of the unit, that would be between 3" from the center of the "V" and maybe 6-8 inches maximum from that point. Very close.
Let's see what the direct energy of the ribbon is?
Perhaps grab a screen shot of the result and post it here.
Also, what mic did you use to measure?
_-_-bear
ralf said:
while the in room acoustic measurement is important, the first thing to try is to get the direct energy of the ribbon only. So, I would suggest measuring the Air Motion device just in front of the unit, that would be between 3" from the center of the "V" and maybe 6-8 inches maximum from that point. Very close.
Let's see what the direct energy of the ribbon is?
Perhaps grab a screen shot of the result and post it here.
Also, what mic did you use to measure?
_-_-bear
Woofer and Crossover for ESS Heil
Hi, ESS is making Heils again and I would like to build a system around them. Can anyone suggest a woofer and crossover that will work with the Heil. I noticed someone recommended the SON speaker, but the only plans I can find are in German and the 2460 woofers don't seem to be available in the US. Any help would be greatly apprectiated.
Thanks
Hi, ESS is making Heils again and I would like to build a system around them. Can anyone suggest a woofer and crossover that will work with the Heil. I noticed someone recommended the SON speaker, but the only plans I can find are in German and the 2460 woofers don't seem to be available in the US. Any help would be greatly apprectiated.
Thanks
I've been looking at the Alpair 10 to mate with my Heils; perhaps even as a bi-pole. I find the Heils to sound a little harsh crossed any lower than around ~2k.
I think the Heils are great DIY driver to mate with various
other lower range drivers than the original woofers.
Different cabs is always interesting as well. One would want
to keep in mind trying to mate sensitivity (efficiency) if using
a passive network or pad the Heils, but active biamp gives
even more flexibility.
It would be interesting to hear about peoples results
with different woofers.
other lower range drivers than the original woofers.
Different cabs is always interesting as well. One would want
to keep in mind trying to mate sensitivity (efficiency) if using
a passive network or pad the Heils, but active biamp gives
even more flexibility.
It would be interesting to hear about peoples results
with different woofers.
AMT1 matched with the TD12M crossovered over at 1200Hz is a project Im considering. I will be using a DCX2496 though.
I want to compare it against my Neopro5i ribbons I own.
I want to compare it against my Neopro5i ribbons I own.
So the AMT is bipolar? I assumed it was dipolar. I just bought a pair of the new ones and looking at the diaphragm it looks like it must move "side to side" in a compressing accordian sort of way? I guess I can see how this bipolar and not dipolar. I had planned on using them for an open baffle, but now I'm wondering how it will work since the other drivers are naturally dipolar on an open baffle?
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