Ok so I emailed him to see if he was going tp put some " daytime" pics up on the site, he said within the week there would be pics and that he expected it to produce 500 Lumen, WHAT 500 lumen, If its only 500 Lumen EVERYONE dont bother, My real projector produces 800 ansi and I cant Imagine watching that with any light on, and My 410 FXL overhead/ panel I would guess borders on the 400 ansi. 500 seems low to me, Anything below 1000 would be useless for any amount of light in the room. mabe hes just miscalculating. I dunno what do you all think?
I think it depends on the size of the scree and the darkness of the room.
but for a 2m diagonal, I've seen good results with a 300W halogen in a full dark room.
So must be ok with the 250W HQI...
but for a 2m diagonal, I've seen good results with a 300W halogen in a full dark room.
So must be ok with the 250W HQI...
my epson projector is 650 lumens 300 contrast and i can watch it with the lights dim. granted the pic is a little washed out but still very watchable at 70". Maybe you're not really pumping out 800 lumens. Or expecting way to much.
ap0
ap0
usa_satriani said:
I'm 99.9% sure that lumens are a calculation of the brightness of the screen. The screen size is irrelevant. If you shrink your screen size, lumens will increase. If you increase your screen size, lumens will decrease.
I think alot of people confuse lumens with lux and foot-candles
Well, for example a 250W HQI OSRAM gives about 20 000 Lumens.
So if you make a huge screen, the lumens/m^2 rate will ve very poor and the quality of the picture will be bad even in a dark room.
The most important I think is the Lumens/m^2 and I think this lamp will suit a lot for a 75 inches screen in a full dark room...
Using an apropriate reflector is also very important otherwise, you lose so many light beams...
So if you make a huge screen, the lumens/m^2 rate will ve very poor and the quality of the picture will be bad even in a dark room.
The most important I think is the Lumens/m^2 and I think this lamp will suit a lot for a 75 inches screen in a full dark room...
Using an apropriate reflector is also very important otherwise, you lose so many light beams...
Satriani is right.. if you have 800 ansi lumen with a 20" screen, the picture will be brighter than if the screen is 120".
Ok well here was my thinking, my OHP has a 4,000 lumen bulb and a 250 hqi is 22,000 -ish so that a litle over 5 times as much, so wouldnt I expect to see 5 times as bright of a image( using a good reflector of course). and if so 5 times as bright would easily pass the 1000 ansi mark.
That Alan guy just wants people to buy stuff on his site so he will say anything!🙂 I do appreciate that he puts up a lot of pics and info, but honesty is still the most appreciated thing in this world!
Tommy
Tommy
Yes and I would honestly drive to his house and insert the bulb up his rectal cavity sideways. I guess that was a lil uncalled for but if i was lied to and tricked into spending over 100$ on anything, I would be that mad.
I dont like the bulb he's using. He went from a 10,000k ushio idea to that!? There are plenty of HQI bulbs out there with higher color temps that would produce better results.
OK this wasnt Intended to be a DIYLABS bashing thread LOL, To my later question do any of you think that 500 ansi is wayyyyyyyy too low, considering what I said about My OHPand its current bulb and how that would relate to a bigger bulb?
I didnt mean to bash him, im just saying if i got ripped off or someone misrepresented a product that i paid alot for, I would be pissed. Maybe the bulbs hes selling are good. And his site is one of the best ones ive seen so yeah... errr, i just think its possible to find a better deal and if i cant i will go through him. As for 500 ansi being way to low im not sure i have heard mixed reactions on the forum, some say you can watch with some lights on, some say its not even good with lights off. My commercial projector is supposed to be 550 but i havent gotten it yet so I cant tell you how good it looks. Hopefully tomorrow. I think it should be fine, from some of the result pics i have seen online of 300.
ANSI LUMENS:
The measurement of brightness at the screen of a projected image. An image of 1 square meter is divided into 9 equal segments. Light is measured at the center of each segment and then averaged. This is the brightness measurement used in all-in-one LCD projectors.
You cannot measure an 18 foot screen in ansi lumens, and from what i understand from this definition, ansi lumens is not just finding 10% of the total lumens your light source is. It seems to me we have not been using true ANSI lumens, but DIY Lumens 🙂.
The measurement of brightness at the screen of a projected image. An image of 1 square meter is divided into 9 equal segments. Light is measured at the center of each segment and then averaged. This is the brightness measurement used in all-in-one LCD projectors.
You cannot measure an 18 foot screen in ansi lumens, and from what i understand from this definition, ansi lumens is not just finding 10% of the total lumens your light source is. It seems to me we have not been using true ANSI lumens, but DIY Lumens 🙂.
Yeah I have read that definition before but I cant remember where. What the sheeet i want to know is how do you measure the light in the middle of each square? With my GoGo Gadget light measurey tooly deely stick tool?
What are ANSI Lumens?
From time to time you can also see the specification ANSI Lumen, referring to the American National Standards Institute. This is a meticulously described measuring method that should make specifications more comparable.
Basically, the measurement is done on a full white picture, and the illumination on the screen is measured in Lux on 9 different places on the screen. The ANSI Lumen value is then calculated as an average of these 9 measurements:
ANSI Lumen = (L1+L2+L3+L4+L5+L6+L7+L8+L9)/9 * Screen Surface (square meters)
http://www.barco.com/projection_systems/customer_services/advice.asp
From time to time you can also see the specification ANSI Lumen, referring to the American National Standards Institute. This is a meticulously described measuring method that should make specifications more comparable.
Basically, the measurement is done on a full white picture, and the illumination on the screen is measured in Lux on 9 different places on the screen. The ANSI Lumen value is then calculated as an average of these 9 measurements:
ANSI Lumen = (L1+L2+L3+L4+L5+L6+L7+L8+L9)/9 * Screen Surface (square meters)
http://www.barco.com/projection_systems/customer_services/advice.asp
Attachments
What i want to know is JUST WHAT exactly is making the lumens so ansi in the first place. Maybe those lumens need to calm down a little?
Ok...I apologize fully and whole-heartedly.
Ok...I apologize fully and whole-heartedly.
PEOPLE PEOPLE PEOPLE< THE BIG question is My OHP produces 4,000 Lumens and a DE metal halide makes 22,000 -ISH so that a little over 5 times as bright so I would think that with a good reflector it would make something 5 times as bright? Thats the question Im asking I really dont care about the final ANSI only if its a good assumption that it will be 5 times brighter, if so thats DAMNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN good...............And yes I know what they say ablut assumptions, LOL PLEASE respond back OPINIONS are wanted.
Found somewhere:
(ok, here it is:
http://www.barco.com/projection_systems/customer_services/advice.asp )
"What are ANSI Lumens?
From time to time you can also see the specification ANSI Lumen, referring to the American National Standards Institute. This is a meticulously described measuring method that should make specifications more comparable. Unfortunately, it does not take into account the peak power CRT projectors can deliver and is therefore not very well suited for this type of projectors.
Basically, the measurement is done on a full white picture, and the illumination on the screen is measured in Lux on 9 different places on the screen. The ANSI Lumen value is then calculated as an average of these 9 measurements:
ANSI Lumen = (L1+L2+L3+L4+L5+L6+L7+L8+L9)/9 * Screen Surface (square meters)
What this measurement does take into account very well, is the drop in Brightness in the corners that many poorly designed projectors show so very well. This drop in Brightness can be quite dramatic on some projectors and is observed as a "Hot Spot". It is also expressed by the specification "Edge to Center" ratio:
Edge to Center Ratio = L1/L5
In some cases this ratio can be as low as 20% but for a good projector without any observable Hot Spot, you should count on a ratio of approximately 70% or up. "
Some suggest using foot-Lamberts:
http://www.runco.com/AboutUs/Press/2002/footlambert.htm
-- cut --
“We feel that the measurement criteria associated with light output of fixed-pixel technology specifications is inappropriate for Home Theater applications,” says Sam Runco, CEO and found of Runco International. “The traditional ANSI lumen method for measuring brightness can be an accurate quantitative measurement but does not describe the quality of an image for Home Theater. We have decided to use a measurement system that is a true representation of how bright an image is in reference to something everyone can understand - a movie theater.”
Runco further stated that, “By using the foot-Lambert measurement specification, we can communicate to customers that the image in their Home Theater will be 1.5 times brighter than the image at their local cinema, which is more meaningful than trying to explain how bright 1000 ANSI lumens will appear on a 8‘ wide screen.”
About foot-Lamberts:
This method of measurement, called foot-Lambert, is a measurement related to the brightness of a particular image and is equal to 1 lumen per square foot of screen surface. A Spectral Radiometer is required to perform this measurement. The SMPTE (Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers) specification for a film-type movie theater is 16 foot-Lamberts of brightness. Movie theaters typically even with their very large screen surfaces and high wattage lamps in their film projectors, struggle to achieve this brightness specification. Since the screen size is much smaller for Home Theater, it is possible to achieve 16 foot-Lamberts and most of the time much higher brightness level with Runco projectors.
How this affects the consumer:
The purpose for this change in specifications standard is to make the information on our spec sheets relatable to the consumer. The change to foot-Lamberts will make for an easy comparison between how bright the average movie screen is in relation to our projectors. We will include the color temperature at which our light output was measured. This is critical because increasing color temperature increases brightness and contrast ratio. Unfortunately an over exaggerated color temperature ruins color fidelity in the type of picture necessary for Home Theater. Runco’s changes in video display specifications makes it possible for the consumer to easily relate the picture performance of our products to that of the local film cinema.
Home Theater is still evolving:
When asked about their departure from the ANSI Lumen method adopted by the industry, Chuck Turigliatto, Vice President of Sales and Marketing answered, “The Home Theater industry is still a ‘work in progress’ and as one of its creators, we at Runco view ourselves as the guardians of this industry. When we feel strongly that something is incorrect or needs a more appropriate direction, we will actually use Runco as a platform to initiate that change for the whole industry. The testing methods that have been used came from an entirely different industry and were used in Home Theater more by default than by adoption.”
Projection light output basics:
* The projector outputs a fixed amount of light
* As screen size increases, foot-Lamberts decrease
* Gain on the screen will increase the foot-Lambert reading
* Negative-gain screens used for better black levels will decrease foot-Lambert value
* Doubling the screen diagonal will result in 1/4 the brightness of the smaller sized screen
-- cut --
(Sorry people for the cut'n paste applied here)
(ok, here it is:
http://www.barco.com/projection_systems/customer_services/advice.asp )
"What are ANSI Lumens?
From time to time you can also see the specification ANSI Lumen, referring to the American National Standards Institute. This is a meticulously described measuring method that should make specifications more comparable. Unfortunately, it does not take into account the peak power CRT projectors can deliver and is therefore not very well suited for this type of projectors.
Basically, the measurement is done on a full white picture, and the illumination on the screen is measured in Lux on 9 different places on the screen. The ANSI Lumen value is then calculated as an average of these 9 measurements:
ANSI Lumen = (L1+L2+L3+L4+L5+L6+L7+L8+L9)/9 * Screen Surface (square meters)
What this measurement does take into account very well, is the drop in Brightness in the corners that many poorly designed projectors show so very well. This drop in Brightness can be quite dramatic on some projectors and is observed as a "Hot Spot". It is also expressed by the specification "Edge to Center" ratio:
Edge to Center Ratio = L1/L5
In some cases this ratio can be as low as 20% but for a good projector without any observable Hot Spot, you should count on a ratio of approximately 70% or up. "
Some suggest using foot-Lamberts:
http://www.runco.com/AboutUs/Press/2002/footlambert.htm
-- cut --
“We feel that the measurement criteria associated with light output of fixed-pixel technology specifications is inappropriate for Home Theater applications,” says Sam Runco, CEO and found of Runco International. “The traditional ANSI lumen method for measuring brightness can be an accurate quantitative measurement but does not describe the quality of an image for Home Theater. We have decided to use a measurement system that is a true representation of how bright an image is in reference to something everyone can understand - a movie theater.”
Runco further stated that, “By using the foot-Lambert measurement specification, we can communicate to customers that the image in their Home Theater will be 1.5 times brighter than the image at their local cinema, which is more meaningful than trying to explain how bright 1000 ANSI lumens will appear on a 8‘ wide screen.”
About foot-Lamberts:
This method of measurement, called foot-Lambert, is a measurement related to the brightness of a particular image and is equal to 1 lumen per square foot of screen surface. A Spectral Radiometer is required to perform this measurement. The SMPTE (Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers) specification for a film-type movie theater is 16 foot-Lamberts of brightness. Movie theaters typically even with their very large screen surfaces and high wattage lamps in their film projectors, struggle to achieve this brightness specification. Since the screen size is much smaller for Home Theater, it is possible to achieve 16 foot-Lamberts and most of the time much higher brightness level with Runco projectors.
How this affects the consumer:
The purpose for this change in specifications standard is to make the information on our spec sheets relatable to the consumer. The change to foot-Lamberts will make for an easy comparison between how bright the average movie screen is in relation to our projectors. We will include the color temperature at which our light output was measured. This is critical because increasing color temperature increases brightness and contrast ratio. Unfortunately an over exaggerated color temperature ruins color fidelity in the type of picture necessary for Home Theater. Runco’s changes in video display specifications makes it possible for the consumer to easily relate the picture performance of our products to that of the local film cinema.
Home Theater is still evolving:
When asked about their departure from the ANSI Lumen method adopted by the industry, Chuck Turigliatto, Vice President of Sales and Marketing answered, “The Home Theater industry is still a ‘work in progress’ and as one of its creators, we at Runco view ourselves as the guardians of this industry. When we feel strongly that something is incorrect or needs a more appropriate direction, we will actually use Runco as a platform to initiate that change for the whole industry. The testing methods that have been used came from an entirely different industry and were used in Home Theater more by default than by adoption.”
Projection light output basics:
* The projector outputs a fixed amount of light
* As screen size increases, foot-Lamberts decrease
* Gain on the screen will increase the foot-Lambert reading
* Negative-gain screens used for better black levels will decrease foot-Lambert value
* Doubling the screen diagonal will result in 1/4 the brightness of the smaller sized screen
-- cut --
(Sorry people for the cut'n paste applied here)
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