Driver recommendation for midrange in 3 way active. 5 1/4 or 6 1/2 inch?

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rhythmdiy

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Joined 2006
#1
Dear friends,
I am building a active 3 way system with 1 inch silk dome neodymium tweeters

woofer is 10 inch VIFA PL26W....

But Ive heard alot Midrange problem with various 3 way speakers as neither 4.5 inch or 5 1/4 mid range drivers suffer at the lower mid frequencies... like at 400Hz... even thought the Fs is 70Hz for the midrange...

One practical example is http://www.gattiweb.com/delta_design.html
by David....

But what I found is that using a fast 6 1/4 inch driver as midrange with cuttoff frequency would be arround 400Hz in a sealed enclosure would give very good and tight response.... at the same time it will blend perfectly with the 10 inch drivers.... like what David Gatti says....

I would like to get few suggestions while using this... does it work....

thanks,
Ken
 
#4
The driver you describe will also have very short Xmax, like 1mm

http://professional.celestion.com/pro/products/tf/detail.asp?ID=1

No picture of this 6" neo yet

http://professional.celestion.com/pro/products/nti/detail.asp?ID=10

AudioTechnology could probably make you a dedicated 6" midrange with short Xmax and underhung voicecoil😉 I believe The C-Quenze are the better ones ... the FlexUnits might have bigger cone area fore the same "size", if nothing has changed
Or you may be able to order a 5" Flexunit with a 6" C-Quenze cone
 
#6
I dont know ... you are the designer😉 I wouldnt use a 6" that high when ultimate precision is requested ... well, maybe a widerange with small fragile voicecoil, and only if higher sensitivity was the main goal

But basically with any quality driver it is your task to make it work, designing setup, xo ...
If you study skilled people that reveal their secrets, like TroelsGravesen, Zaph and others ... you will see that the job isnt easier even when expencive quality drivers are used
 
#9
but tell me is it possible for the driver with the following specs for 6 1/4....

Nominal size


6¼


[inch.]

Nominal impedance


4


[ohm]

Recommended upper frequency limit


3


[kHz]

Recommended cabinet volume (ported design)


15 - 20


[lit.]

Sensitivity, 2.83V/1m, (average 200-2,000Hz)


91.5


[dB]

Voice coil diameter


32.5


[mm]

Voice coil height


11


[mm]

Air gap height


4.0


[mm]

Voice coil resistance, RDC


3.2


[ohm]

Voice coil inductance


0.16


[mH]

Magnet weight (dual neodymium)


102


[g]

Effective radiating area, Sd


139


[sq.cm]

Power handling, continuous, IEC 268-5


60


[W]

Resonance freq., Fs


50


[Hz]

Moving mass, incl. air


12.5


[g]

Force factor, Bxl


5.2


[Tm]

Mechanical Q, Qm


11


-

Electrical Q, Qe


0.48


-

Total Q, Qt


0.46


-

Suspension compliance, Cms


0.85


[mm/N]

Equiv.. air volume, Vas


22.5


[lit.]

Total unit net weight


0.7


[kg]
 
#10
Lots and lots of options...

Rhythmdiy,

I don't think I would dismiss anything based on the links/reasons you gave. More important critieria would be this:

1) Budget - I assum that since you have a Vifa 10 (a very fine driver) and don't mention your tweeter by name, you aren't wanting to invest in any gold standards here, just looking to get good bang for the buck. Is this correct?

2) Crossover type... how well the driver in the middle holds up regarding SPL/distortion will have a lot to do with not just what crossover point you choose but what crossover slope you choose as well

3) Are you looking for a good general purpose monitor speaker that you can use to do a little home recording and a lot of general music listening or do you have more heavy duty professional requirements?

In general, I would encourage you to take a look here:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/6.5test/

The Vifa XG18 in the test group above just might have your name written all over it...

I think the Vifa 10 might be happy running up 700 or 800 Hz, if so, I would seriously look into a Morel MDM-55 midrange dome, then you could have a standard rectangular box sized and stuffed for your 10" woofer, lay it on its side and then to the inside edge of each mount a sealed dome mid and your tweeter above it so they are on the same vertical axis as they face you. Now you don't need any real interior volume for the mid and tweet, so you can use it all for the woofer and get the most out of it while still keeping the overall box size reasonable. Just my two cents. Also, Morel makes a good 4 inch mid-bass that would be great as a mid in your situation, along with a 5 inch driver with a 3 inch voice coil that I think would work great in a studio situation, and then Vifa makes some classic 6 and 7 inch or so drivers that are very easy to cross on both ends. I would give those serious consideration if you really want to run a 6.5 inch cone driver up to 3kHz or more...

Best of luck.
 
#11
yeah its a serious consideration for professional recording purposes...

are u sure using the classic series Vifa 6.5 inch drivers which can be used upto 3khz..

I had vifa p17wj midbass driver and the mids were incredible... and I loved them alot... and thats one of the reason why I prefer 6 1/4 inch midbass driver to use it as midrange application....
 
#12
I believe fast driver beam less and give smooth response... and if we take ideal case into considerations like

for a 5 inch midrange... the beaming frequency would be 2546 Hz but many 5 inch midrange drivers can be crossed above this frequency? why?

the main factor thats the driver is speed enough to overcome beaming at that frequency and hence there is very little problem at that specific frequency and hence it can be either easily corrected with crossover.

One of the midrange that comes in this category is ... http://www.tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=75

what do u say?
 
#13
Well, you may have just answered your own question... the P17 is a very versatile and well like driver, for good reason. It may be just what you need. Here is a link to some info (check out the customer reviews as well, some seem worth paying attention to)

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=297-305

Here is an interesting option that I have heard a little bit about, but not from enough sources to know for sure...

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-852

And here are the three Morel drivers I mentioned, all three of which I have heard in various speakers, and all three could choices for a Studio environment as Morel is known for making some tough drivers:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=287-020

I would cross the above dome mid at 800 Hz or higher, 2nd order slope or steeper... (from people I trust, not personal experience in any experimenting)

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=297-012

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=297-052

this one above probably not the best value of the group, but a bad-a## little driver.

Hope this helps.
 
#15
your welcome....

I am fairly sure that the "speed" or acceleration ability of a driver does not affect beaming. Beaming is simply a measure of driver surface area and wavelength being launched. Also, I don't think beaming is as much an issue for a studio monitor as it is for general listening in a living room or something like that. You are sitting in the sweet spot for monitoring, so I would value frequency response and dynamic range over power response (power response being the frequency response over the entire 360 degree arc in front of and around the speaker).

The Scan-Speak you mentioned along with the AudioTechnology mentioned earlier are both awesome drivers but I put them in the "gold standard" category meaning that you may or may not really want to spend that much money when you can come very very close with more modest drivers, especially if you are not asking a driver to really do all that much, and I don't think 300-3,000 Hz is really all that much to ask of a driver, but adding loud and clean certainly narrows the list considerably.

If beaming is a big concern to you personally and you want a nice broad sweet spot for stereo imaging then you really can't go wrong with a dome mid like the Morel MDM-55. It will gladly take over around 800 Hz and run all the way up to 3 or 4 kHz without beaming and have a dispersion pattern that will match up fairly well with any dome tweeter at that point.
 
#16
Tangband has a 2" and 3" mid domes ... I suppose the 3" will do better than 800hz ... I do wonder noone has ever mentioned them
And in this respect I will repeat my suggestion about the TB 4" titanium, tested by Zaph
I suppose I wouldnt cross a 10" much higher than 500hz ... theoretically
 
#17
I wouldn't trust the Tangband domes to hold up to the overall quality and SPLs of the Morel dome, but that certainly doesn't mean it wouldn't be worth testing if one were curious enough. Most mid domes are notorious for sounding bad and breaking up easily unless proven otherwise. The ATC dome being the most famous, and the Morel finding favor recently with builders such as Selah Audio and others. The dome from Dayton RS series looks good to but all the other domes have much larger faceplates so that gives the Morel another advantage in my book.

I do agree with you regarding the Tangband titanium driver, and I think I saw that one manufacturer, I think it was Gallo Acoustics, uses it or a slightly modified version there of. The Visaton titanium mid-bass is getting rave reviews as well. I just thought that with a paper woofer and silk dome tweeter, and no mention of crossover expertise it would be best to stick with drivers in the paper and poly camp and also be mindful of any spikes that could be hard to tame. But I believe the titanium tangband is well behaved in this regard, they have a few versions and I guess they all behave a little differently.
 
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