After a while of thinking up what speakers to build for my living room I did a bit of soul searching and realized that in reality I listen to music most in my kitchen 🙂
My kitchen is about 5x5 meter, long table in the middle with me sitting in the middle of the table at about 3m distance to the back wall - speakers would be placed in the corners at the back wall.
Troels Gravesen's 8008 corner speakers seem like a good fit, the driver costs amount to 940 euros for 2 speakers.
Yet the kit costs 1337 euros through Jantzen.
I understand the 397 euros extra pay for his design and very expensive Jantzen parts, but I'm one of those people thinking very expensive coils and resistors do not make that much of a difference *to my old ears*.
So my question is - any diy'ers here who can help me out building a good "corner" speaker like Troels' 8008-corner without having to submit to the "expensive coils and capacitors" ideology?
My kitchen is about 5x5 meter, long table in the middle with me sitting in the middle of the table at about 3m distance to the back wall - speakers would be placed in the corners at the back wall.
Troels Gravesen's 8008 corner speakers seem like a good fit, the driver costs amount to 940 euros for 2 speakers.
Yet the kit costs 1337 euros through Jantzen.
I understand the 397 euros extra pay for his design and very expensive Jantzen parts, but I'm one of those people thinking very expensive coils and resistors do not make that much of a difference *to my old ears*.
So my question is - any diy'ers here who can help me out building a good "corner" speaker like Troels' 8008-corner without having to submit to the "expensive coils and capacitors" ideology?
To be frank - reading your description of how you consume music and don't seem to be to technology oriented - why spend 900 € at all?
Now, I don't have a build for you but I'm sure someone will come up with something.
//
Now, I don't have a build for you but I'm sure someone will come up with something.
//
The living room is usually taken by spouse and kids, the kitchen is where I can find a moment of relaxation. 5x5 meters doesn't seem to bad for a listening space, but I don't have the luxury of putting my speakers somewhere smack in the middle where my kids will run into them.
All I'm looking for is decent sound in my limited space, using my limited technology oriented diy amplifier. If that somehow offends your HiFi spirit I apologize.
All I'm looking for is decent sound in my limited space, using my limited technology oriented diy amplifier. If that somehow offends your HiFi spirit I apologize.
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a wide range driver like the Dayton PS95 or Vifa TG9 with a helper woofer e.g. SB15NRXC30-4 with a simple xover would be a lot cheaper, have a smaller box, and still give excellent sound....
Pygmy,
You might look at Jeff Bagby's 'The Tributes', there is a PDF write up on the Net (just Google) or possibly some of his other designs, they are generally very good and may suit your pocket for a kitchen setup.
https://meniscusaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Tributes-Write-Up.pdf
C.M
You might look at Jeff Bagby's 'The Tributes', there is a PDF write up on the Net (just Google) or possibly some of his other designs, they are generally very good and may suit your pocket for a kitchen setup.
https://meniscusaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Tributes-Write-Up.pdf
C.M
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Troels states the problem:
"Next we have early reflection in the midrange and treble and if these reflections are very early, and we're talking milliseconds, it confuses our brain and smear our perception of depth and perspective."
...but gives no solution.
He implies that corner designs are intrinsically faulty, only good enough for "low-tech listeners" - and yet the kit uses the same expensive (high-tech?) parts as usual. This seems contradictory.
Other corner designs have a solution: they minimise those early reflections, by using horns. You could buy one of these kits, or clone one of these builds, to get something that's actually good for a corner.
Here are a couple of examples. There are many, many more.
Pi Speakers - Product Line and Driver Complements
Small Syns
"Next we have early reflection in the midrange and treble and if these reflections are very early, and we're talking milliseconds, it confuses our brain and smear our perception of depth and perspective."
...but gives no solution.
He implies that corner designs are intrinsically faulty, only good enough for "low-tech listeners" - and yet the kit uses the same expensive (high-tech?) parts as usual. This seems contradictory.
Other corner designs have a solution: they minimise those early reflections, by using horns. You could buy one of these kits, or clone one of these builds, to get something that's actually good for a corner.
Here are a couple of examples. There are many, many more.
Pi Speakers - Product Line and Driver Complements
Small Syns
I agree with the directivity thing, albeit for all loudspeakers...and in particular corner located ones. The following might be useful reading:
Corner Horn Imaging FAQ - diyAudio
I also recommend the multiple-entry horn (MEH) designs, of which the Synergy Calc spreadsheet of Bill Waslo is quite helpful. These loudspeakers present huge acoustic images having truly outstanding clarity and dynamics in a very compact loudspeaker-directivity package.
Chris
Corner Horn Imaging FAQ - diyAudio
I also recommend the multiple-entry horn (MEH) designs, of which the Synergy Calc spreadsheet of Bill Waslo is quite helpful. These loudspeakers present huge acoustic images having truly outstanding clarity and dynamics in a very compact loudspeaker-directivity package.
Chris
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Take a look at Troels' Studio 101. Public crossover and both floor and shelf mounts.
There is no law that prohibits placing baffle step corrected speakers near boundaries, you just turn down the bass. Not a bad thing as you now have more reserve power, your amp is loafing.
There is no law that prohibits placing baffle step corrected speakers near boundaries, you just turn down the bass. Not a bad thing as you now have more reserve power, your amp is loafing.
There's nothing special about designing a speaker for a corner, just don't add any baffle step compensation. Therefore any 'bookshelf' design should also suit a corner, since bookshelf speakers typically don't have or need baffle step compensation either.
I agree that some kind of directivity control will be beneficial when using them in a corner. A shallow waveguide on dome tweeter is enough directivity control imho. Full blown compression drivers with deep/long horns come with extra drawbacks.
I agree that some kind of directivity control will be beneficial when using them in a corner. A shallow waveguide on dome tweeter is enough directivity control imho. Full blown compression drivers with deep/long horns come with extra drawbacks.
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If kids = poking fingers, does that mean wall mounted or just "on stands in the corner"?
Regarding directivity, a 2-way will ultimately radiate wider than most wide range drivers. Over in the Tabaq topic, one set was rebuilt with Visaton W100 plus tweeter because it was being used in a kitchen and the builder didn't like the FR dropping off off-axis.
J.
Even better. Check this out. Bill Fitzmaurice doesn't charge a lot for plans and his designs aren't going to cost a fortune.
TLAH
Grant.
Kids won't be poking fingers (they have been raised to appreciate speakers, even at 4 and 7 years old 😉), but room usage and Wife Acceptance Factor dictate the speakers will be placed in the corners of the room.. :/
These will never pass the WAF, and personally I find them horrible to look at too 🙂
Thanks for showing me a design I've never seen before though!
12" Econowave. 15" wide cabinet.
Controlled directivity from $13 Dayton SEOS12 waveguide(90H 40V) paired with $75 Dayton Designer Series DS315-8 12" woofer(2.2cuft ported box -F3=37Hz). $30 Dayton D250P compression driver. Crossover on web. A cabinet designed for the corner can reduce the in-room box interference. You will also use these for garage/outdoor party music.
SEOS12 with Designer12 woofer | HiFiCircuit
Positive reviews for the new $65 Peerless DFM2544 1" compression driver, but crossover is not fully reviewed.
Controlled directivity from $13 Dayton SEOS12 waveguide(90H 40V) paired with $75 Dayton Designer Series DS315-8 12" woofer(2.2cuft ported box -F3=37Hz). $30 Dayton D250P compression driver. Crossover on web. A cabinet designed for the corner can reduce the in-room box interference. You will also use these for garage/outdoor party music.
SEOS12 with Designer12 woofer | HiFiCircuit
Positive reviews for the new $65 Peerless DFM2544 1" compression driver, but crossover is not fully reviewed.
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