Hi All,
New to this forum and I'm not sure if this question is better here or in the speakers forum but anyway.
I've been playing reggae/dub/steppas out for a while and feel the time has come to up my soundsystem game a bit. I have to transport the kit myself so I want something that's reasonable compact. I typically play small venues (max capacity ~100) so all out deafening power is not necessary.
I was thinking of starting with 2x ES18BPH subs to pair with my Yamaha S15e speakers. I think building these is within my technical capability.
Next stage I was thinking of adding 2 more ES18BPH's and a pair of MKB230 speakers.
Final stage would be to build a new mid and top to replace the S15e.
Any thoughts? Suggest anything better?
N.B. I like the sound of scoops and horns would prefer to have them in my rig rather than reflex designs but I'm open minded.
New to this forum and I'm not sure if this question is better here or in the speakers forum but anyway.
I've been playing reggae/dub/steppas out for a while and feel the time has come to up my soundsystem game a bit. I have to transport the kit myself so I want something that's reasonable compact. I typically play small venues (max capacity ~100) so all out deafening power is not necessary.
I was thinking of starting with 2x ES18BPH subs to pair with my Yamaha S15e speakers. I think building these is within my technical capability.
Next stage I was thinking of adding 2 more ES18BPH's and a pair of MKB230 speakers.
Final stage would be to build a new mid and top to replace the S15e.
Any thoughts? Suggest anything better?
N.B. I like the sound of scoops and horns would prefer to have them in my rig rather than reflex designs but I'm open minded.
Okay, so...
The sub you've suggested will hit 54Hz apparently. Looks like it'll be very loud, but have very little deep bass. Its up to you if that's what you're looking for. You can use Audacity or similar to analyse the music you play and figure out how deep the bass needs to go.
Keeping it the same size, a reflex design will likely give you a flatter response at the expense of outright SPL.
There's no need for kick bins here. Seriously. A better mid-top would cover the kick range easily, and save you time, money, amp channels, etc. The only time you'll need them is when you're using horn-loaded midrange drivers that will only cover down to 200Hz or so. That's a whole different game to what you're playing, so I wouldn't go there.
Which amplifiers are you using so far?
Do you have any processing?
What's the budget?
If it was mine, I'd build a pair of 18" tapped horns. I really think the 54Hz cutoff on those cabs you've suggested will come back and bite you - it's enough for old-school rock and roll, but a lot of modern music goes flat to 40Hz and below.
Chris
The sub you've suggested will hit 54Hz apparently. Looks like it'll be very loud, but have very little deep bass. Its up to you if that's what you're looking for. You can use Audacity or similar to analyse the music you play and figure out how deep the bass needs to go.
Keeping it the same size, a reflex design will likely give you a flatter response at the expense of outright SPL.
There's no need for kick bins here. Seriously. A better mid-top would cover the kick range easily, and save you time, money, amp channels, etc. The only time you'll need them is when you're using horn-loaded midrange drivers that will only cover down to 200Hz or so. That's a whole different game to what you're playing, so I wouldn't go there.
Which amplifiers are you using so far?
Do you have any processing?
What's the budget?
If it was mine, I'd build a pair of 18" tapped horns. I really think the 54Hz cutoff on those cabs you've suggested will come back and bite you - it's enough for old-school rock and roll, but a lot of modern music goes flat to 40Hz and below.
Chris
Hi Chris,
Cheers for your response. I think to be honest I probably do need a system which can handle a reasonable amount of sub bass. Are there any tapped horns you would recommend? A quick look at designs suggests this [http://hornplans.free.fr/mth4654.html] might be within my capability to build and fit the bill in terms of sub-bass extension and not being overly massive.
My current set up is 2x S15e Speakers powered by a Wharfedale CPD 2600. I also run two 18" cheapo subs called "Evolution Elsub 18SA" which are pretty crumby. I use the crossover on my mixer to split the signal.
In future I would be aiming to get a Behringer DCX2496 to manage crossover, delays and generally tuning the system. Budget is somewhat flexible between £1500 and £2000 but I need to earn the money before I can spend it so I want things that I can keep adding to but will give me a usable system at every stage. I'm also quite keen to build the kit myself more for satisfaction and also if I'm honest partly to get the right "look" for a reggae soundsystem.
Thanks,
David
Cheers for your response. I think to be honest I probably do need a system which can handle a reasonable amount of sub bass. Are there any tapped horns you would recommend? A quick look at designs suggests this [http://hornplans.free.fr/mth4654.html] might be within my capability to build and fit the bill in terms of sub-bass extension and not being overly massive.
My current set up is 2x S15e Speakers powered by a Wharfedale CPD 2600. I also run two 18" cheapo subs called "Evolution Elsub 18SA" which are pretty crumby. I use the crossover on my mixer to split the signal.
In future I would be aiming to get a Behringer DCX2496 to manage crossover, delays and generally tuning the system. Budget is somewhat flexible between £1500 and £2000 but I need to earn the money before I can spend it so I want things that I can keep adding to but will give me a usable system at every stage. I'm also quite keen to build the kit myself more for satisfaction and also if I'm honest partly to get the right "look" for a reggae soundsystem.
Thanks,
David
hi sacro bosco - sei italiano?
as chris said the es 18band pass horn is more a kick bin than a sub. it goes lower than most kicks but still it definitely doesn't go low enough for reggae and dub.
you will see it used as sub in multiples for techno or other genres that have more kick than sub bass. in the reggae scene it is often used above hogs to play the kick range - other widespread options are hd15s (horn loaded) or reflex 15s/18s.
furthermore the mkb230 is another kick bin so it would not make sense to use them together - if you didn't know it, a sub covers roughly from 35 to 80/100 hz
a kick from 70/80 to 150/200 hz and then the midtops come in.
some mid tops go low enough to cross directly to subs without the need of a dedicated kick bin, and reflex loaded cabs can be used over a wider range of frequencies than horns, which are generally more efficient than reflex in their bandpass.
if you go for the look of the reggae sound systems build scoops, that's the most iconic and widespread design in the roots - world, and i think the hog design comes second, that's what 90% of people uses; scoops in particular are famous for a particular tone that suits well reggae music - more old school roots tunes than digital productions, but that's just my opinion...
but they are both big and heavy cabs.
for easy transportation, small parties and easy to build i would suggest single reflex 18s, they go deep even in singles, and there's a lot of designs there from speaker manufacturers (18sound, b&C).
They would work better with your reflex mid tops than horn subs as they are both reflex so there would be less time alignment issues.
if you still look for something different than reflex than you could check the cubo or cubo sub, small subs built by a lot of people with good plans and cut sheets available.
the Tham subs are also widespread, but i don't know them or if they suit reggae...
if you feel like a more complicated build you could look into some small tapped horn designs - we just built some xoc1's th18s, but they are big again, not like a scoop but still a pain to move around.
but if you go for horn loaded subs then i would consider to buy the dcx2496 together as horn loaded cabs need to be aligned with your mid tops with delay and phase controls and a hi pass filters for protection (this would benefit the reflex boxes also if your mixer's crossover doesn't provide one).
the reflex 15 in your yamaha mid tops should give you some punch already, so i would add a sub before thinking at kicks...
as chris said the es 18band pass horn is more a kick bin than a sub. it goes lower than most kicks but still it definitely doesn't go low enough for reggae and dub.
you will see it used as sub in multiples for techno or other genres that have more kick than sub bass. in the reggae scene it is often used above hogs to play the kick range - other widespread options are hd15s (horn loaded) or reflex 15s/18s.
furthermore the mkb230 is another kick bin so it would not make sense to use them together - if you didn't know it, a sub covers roughly from 35 to 80/100 hz
a kick from 70/80 to 150/200 hz and then the midtops come in.
some mid tops go low enough to cross directly to subs without the need of a dedicated kick bin, and reflex loaded cabs can be used over a wider range of frequencies than horns, which are generally more efficient than reflex in their bandpass.
if you go for the look of the reggae sound systems build scoops, that's the most iconic and widespread design in the roots - world, and i think the hog design comes second, that's what 90% of people uses; scoops in particular are famous for a particular tone that suits well reggae music - more old school roots tunes than digital productions, but that's just my opinion...
but they are both big and heavy cabs.
for easy transportation, small parties and easy to build i would suggest single reflex 18s, they go deep even in singles, and there's a lot of designs there from speaker manufacturers (18sound, b&C).
They would work better with your reflex mid tops than horn subs as they are both reflex so there would be less time alignment issues.
if you still look for something different than reflex than you could check the cubo or cubo sub, small subs built by a lot of people with good plans and cut sheets available.
the Tham subs are also widespread, but i don't know them or if they suit reggae...
if you feel like a more complicated build you could look into some small tapped horn designs - we just built some xoc1's th18s, but they are big again, not like a scoop but still a pain to move around.
but if you go for horn loaded subs then i would consider to buy the dcx2496 together as horn loaded cabs need to be aligned with your mid tops with delay and phase controls and a hi pass filters for protection (this would benefit the reflex boxes also if your mixer's crossover doesn't provide one).
the reflex 15 in your yamaha mid tops should give you some punch already, so i would add a sub before thinking at kicks...
Hi David,
Are you based in the UK?
Let me know if you're near Sheffield.
Here's how I'd do things in your situation...
1 - Get some measurement gear. You can get a USB interface and an ECM8000 mic (others are available) for less than £100, and I'd say a measurement mic and EQ is one of the best things you can do for a system.
2 - get a DCX2496 or similar. You'll use it forever, there's no point in putting it off when you could be using it.
3 - Build some subs. A TH18 (or is it TH118..?) or Keystone would give you something serious. Note the drivers aren't cheap. One of those will keep up with a decent commercial 2x18" cabinet though.
4 - Upgrade the tops. I'd go for a 15" midbass and a 2" compression driver, and skip the kick-bins entirely. If you ever decide you want more, get some 10" mids, and put the 15"s in horns.
Chris
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