for 2 years i've been making pcb's (photoresistive) with my inkjet printer (on transparencies) and i always had to use couple of sheets one on top of the other to make the ink dark enough ....
now i'm thinking of upgrading the printer so i can use only one transparency sheet that will be dark enough .
first ,i thought that laser printers are better for this ,but yesterday i tried one ,and the results were much worse then a regular inkjet printer
(yes, i used the special laser transparency film)
so ....
does anybody got any printer to suggest ?
inkjet /laser,i dont care ,as long as it can make the job done...
now i'm thinking of upgrading the printer so i can use only one transparency sheet that will be dark enough .
first ,i thought that laser printers are better for this ,but yesterday i tried one ,and the results were much worse then a regular inkjet printer
(yes, i used the special laser transparency film)so ....
does anybody got any printer to suggest ?
inkjet /laser,i dont care ,as long as it can make the job done...
I seem to remember that Epson do a special ink and transparency kit for making PCBs by the photographic method. It might be worth googling, I'm sorry, I can't remember where I saw it.
SSS
In the past I made a few prints on transparent film with an Epson Stylus Color. It was set at max resolution, 1440dpi, and the prints came out black as charcoal. It takes a while before the printout is finished but the result is magnificent. Forget laser printers, they are absolutely useles for this kind of job. My two cents.
Regards
In the past I made a few prints on transparent film with an Epson Stylus Color. It was set at max resolution, 1440dpi, and the prints came out black as charcoal. It takes a while before the printout is finished but the result is magnificent. Forget laser printers, they are absolutely useles for this kind of job. My two cents.
Regards
I get good results with double sided glossy photo paper for color laser printers. It feeds through my old laserjet 4L with no problem and works better than the $1.50 a sheet stuff from digikey. This site has some good info.
http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm
http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm
SSS,
No direct experience here... I always send my boards out or cob something on vectorboard.
1) Could it be that you are using too much light when you "burn" the board... either time or intensity?
2) And I second GeWa... try high-res... and "darker".
3) Have you ever tried running the film through the printer twice... have to make sure you guide it correctly... and some drying time.
😉
No direct experience here... I always send my boards out or cob something on vectorboard.
1) Could it be that you are using too much light when you "burn" the board... either time or intensity?
2) And I second GeWa... try high-res... and "darker".
3) Have you ever tried running the film through the printer twice... have to make sure you guide it correctly... and some drying time.
😉
Some friend of mine owns a laser printer that obviously costed a lot of money. He went quite puzzled when I showed him the resuts that I'm getting with my HP7550 on generic inkjet transparency sheets from some Spanish manufacturer. Paradoxically, I saved that inkjet from being dumped to the nearest trash bin as it was malfunctioning and the previous owner replaced it by a laser printer. I only had to clean it and buy a black ink cartridge in order to make it work fine again, so it costed me almost nothing.
The key to get good results seems to be to adjust both the drying time and the ink load to the maximum, so that the ink is put into the sheet in gentle amounts but in very thin overlapped layers. Also, hot air has to be applied to the sheets for an hour or so after printing in order to dry the ink completely. Printing a full page in such a way may take two or three minutes plus drying time (and lots of ink if there are ground planes), but the result is far better than what I was getting from laser-based machines in local photocopier shops (which always seemed to be running out of toner!)
BTW: I also bought 100 of these generic inkjet transparency sheets for 50 euro.
The key to get good results seems to be to adjust both the drying time and the ink load to the maximum, so that the ink is put into the sheet in gentle amounts but in very thin overlapped layers. Also, hot air has to be applied to the sheets for an hour or so after printing in order to dry the ink completely. Printing a full page in such a way may take two or three minutes plus drying time (and lots of ink if there are ground planes), but the result is far better than what I was getting from laser-based machines in local photocopier shops (which always seemed to be running out of toner!)
BTW: I also bought 100 of these generic inkjet transparency sheets for 50 euro.
Laser printer pinholes are a major problem, but you could try a fixative like:
Laser Buddy
or
Ultra-Black
Laser printing should be a lot cheaper especially if you are doing ground planes.
regards
James
Laser Buddy
or
Ultra-Black
Laser printing should be a lot cheaper especially if you are doing ground planes.
regards
James
Eva said:
Eva ,after printing the sheet i let it dry for 24 hours before using it .
i'll check for HP7550 also 🙂
With my setup I get quite good results with just two sheets attached together, and three sheets are enough to kill all visible light even when you look at them while they are placed directly on the surface of a fluorescent lamp.
I usually employ three sheets, as that turns UV exposure into quite a fool-proof process. I can't appreciate much difference between 3 or 6 minutes of UV when it comes to develop and etch the board later.
Concerning HP printers, as their ink cartridges have all the injection hardware built in, theoretically any printer based on a "56" cartridge like mine would produce the same opacity, so don't look for a single model only (also, mine is quite messy because it uses two more color cartridges specific for photo stuff). Only resolution and the quality of the paper-feeding mechanism may vary from model to model (I believe mine to be over 1200dpi).
I usually employ three sheets, as that turns UV exposure into quite a fool-proof process. I can't appreciate much difference between 3 or 6 minutes of UV when it comes to develop and etch the board later.
Concerning HP printers, as their ink cartridges have all the injection hardware built in, theoretically any printer based on a "56" cartridge like mine would produce the same opacity, so don't look for a single model only (also, mine is quite messy because it uses two more color cartridges specific for photo stuff). Only resolution and the quality of the paper-feeding mechanism may vary from model to model (I believe mine to be over 1200dpi).
I've done pleny of boards with both the photoresist and the toner transfer method. If you are going to use the photoresist method, I have found that printing multiple times to the same sheet works excellent. I was amazed at the repeatability of the prints, absolutely no overlap from both my epson inkjets. I have also tried the same thing on a laser printer (HP4050) and gotten excellent results. After 3 prints on an inkjet you can actually see the ink raised from the surface of the transparency. Just be sure to allow at least 24H drying time before you try to use the transparenct. The key to this method is to ensure absolutely identical paper loading, snug the alignment guides in the paper feed tray so they are right up against both edges of the paper, and do not move them between prints.
Give it a try, you might be surprised!
G.
Give it a try, you might be surprised!
G.
That's the spirit!
I have an HP inkjet that I use for larger stuff. Each time it loads a piece of paper, it goes through some dance... looking for the edge of the paper. I can't imagine the Epson's are that much different.
I have an HP inkjet that I use for larger stuff. Each time it loads a piece of paper, it goes through some dance... looking for the edge of the paper. I can't imagine the Epson's are that much different.
Gcollier said:
i'm making dual layer boards + very thin traces so it needs to be accurate ....
no printer that can do the job with only one sheet?
btw , HP got 2 types of home printers
regular inkjet and photojet
will "photo" printer work better? or the regular is better?
the photo is the one with 6 color cartridges....
Hello sss,
I use an HP deskjet 5652 and always double print on my traparencies (Tartan 707). The results are outstanding even for tiny traces.
I have no problem in putting the traparency again in my printer (with some care) : I get it printed exactly over the first print. Perfect overlap. I can't see any difference in the superposition of tracks even with a 6x magnifier lens. In HP they did a great job. It is a cheap printer with 2 cartridges : one with 3 colors (HP number 57), the other black (HP number 56).
Three time printing is also possible, but results are sufficient with one pass, two give you black more black than necessary black, three is a waste of time.
I have also a dismissed HP laserjet 5P. I don't use it anymore for my pcbs. I like inkjet with colors available 🙂
I hope it helps you.
Best regards
rephil
I use an HP deskjet 5652 and always double print on my traparencies (Tartan 707). The results are outstanding even for tiny traces.
I have no problem in putting the traparency again in my printer (with some care) : I get it printed exactly over the first print. Perfect overlap. I can't see any difference in the superposition of tracks even with a 6x magnifier lens. In HP they did a great job. It is a cheap printer with 2 cartridges : one with 3 colors (HP number 57), the other black (HP number 56).
Three time printing is also possible, but results are sufficient with one pass, two give you black more black than necessary black, three is a waste of time.
I have also a dismissed HP laserjet 5P. I don't use it anymore for my pcbs. I like inkjet with colors available 🙂
I hope it helps you.
Best regards
rephil
hi SSS,
i have recently upgraded to hp1022 laser printer(earlier was hp1010).
i have used toner xfer and photoresist,both.
my hp 1010 did a great job for both methods.
and now my hp1022 is also working alike(better....cant say,but certainly like b4).
good results for both methods by both printers.
i have recently upgraded to hp1022 laser printer(earlier was hp1010).
i have used toner xfer and photoresist,both.
my hp 1010 did a great job for both methods.
and now my hp1022 is also working alike(better....cant say,but certainly like b4).
good results for both methods by both printers.
I use the photoresist method and a HP Laser printer. I use simple printout on paper, for thick traces i print 3 times over the same paper, giving absolute black. With a powerful UV-lamp i light the whole thing for 2 minutes through the paper, works fine !
Optionally i use a transparency spray for the paper. The trick is to find the correct concentration for the NaOH to develop the pcb.
The etching is done in less than 5 minutes with warm natriumpersulfat. (~60°C)
Mike
Optionally i use a transparency spray for the paper. The trick is to find the correct concentration for the NaOH to develop the pcb.
The etching is done in less than 5 minutes with warm natriumpersulfat. (~60°C)
Mike
My setup
After serious research I bought an inkjet printer specifically for producing PCB, a Canon Pixma iP5200R. The printer has a resolution of 9600 x 2400 dpi, and doesn't cost a fortune. I've used Canon's original OH-sheets with good results, but the super-duper results was achieved when I ordered the (very expensive) "JetStar Premium InkJet Film" from Mega Electronics in UK (www.megauk.com). I simply couldn't believe that such perfect results were possible, but yes! The black is completely black and the film dries in no time, really really good.
When using the transparencies, I tell the printing software that I'm using the best photo paper - this allows me to select the highest resolution, and also uses "photo" ink instead of ordinary ink. Photo ink is said to have UV-blocking components to prevent aging in printouts.
/ Pelle
After serious research I bought an inkjet printer specifically for producing PCB, a Canon Pixma iP5200R. The printer has a resolution of 9600 x 2400 dpi, and doesn't cost a fortune. I've used Canon's original OH-sheets with good results, but the super-duper results was achieved when I ordered the (very expensive) "JetStar Premium InkJet Film" from Mega Electronics in UK (www.megauk.com). I simply couldn't believe that such perfect results were possible, but yes! The black is completely black and the film dries in no time, really really good.
When using the transparencies, I tell the printing software that I'm using the best photo paper - this allows me to select the highest resolution, and also uses "photo" ink instead of ordinary ink. Photo ink is said to have UV-blocking components to prevent aging in printouts.
/ Pelle
Re: My setup
thanx allot!!
i think i'm gonna buy this one
🙂
few questions though
the 5200R version is the wireless version ,i dont need wireless , so ,the 5200 without the R is the same printer but not wireless ,right?
i was also looking at canon ip6220D
the difference between the two is :
the 5200 max resolution is 9600*2400
the 6220 resolution is 4800*1200
but! if u look at black and white resolution (or just black🙂)
u can see that :
the 5200 resolution 600*600 black
the 6220 resolution 4800*1200 black 😱
so ,maybe for my purpose the 6220 will be better , am i right?
eplpwr said:
thanx allot!!
i think i'm gonna buy this one
🙂
few questions though
the 5200R version is the wireless version ,i dont need wireless , so ,the 5200 without the R is the same printer but not wireless ,right?
i was also looking at canon ip6220D
the difference between the two is :
the 5200 max resolution is 9600*2400
the 6220 resolution is 4800*1200
but! if u look at black and white resolution (or just black🙂)
u can see that :
the 5200 resolution 600*600 black
the 6220 resolution 4800*1200 black 😱
so ,maybe for my purpose the 6220 will be better , am i right?
Sss,
I *think* that by telling it to print in "photo mode" I fool the printer into using 9600*2400 resolution, although my "picture" is a little boring since the software is set to produce only black (I set this in Eagle's print dialog). There are two cartridges with black ink, one for ordinary printouts, and one with 'photo' black. I can see that the photo ink (black) is decreasing, so I guess I must be doing something right. Hopefully the ink also contains UV-blockers; I read elsewhere on the 'net that you can use any photo ink colour since it will block UV - haven't tried it though.
Regarding the 'R' version: I have the printer connected to an Ethernet to enable printing from more than one computer. I have disabled the wireless functionality, since I'm concerned about electrosmog. The non-R-version is fine, but will only connect using USB.
Regards,
I *think* that by telling it to print in "photo mode" I fool the printer into using 9600*2400 resolution, although my "picture" is a little boring since the software is set to produce only black (I set this in Eagle's print dialog). There are two cartridges with black ink, one for ordinary printouts, and one with 'photo' black. I can see that the photo ink (black) is decreasing, so I guess I must be doing something right. Hopefully the ink also contains UV-blockers; I read elsewhere on the 'net that you can use any photo ink colour since it will block UV - haven't tried it though.
Regarding the 'R' version: I have the printer connected to an Ethernet to enable printing from more than one computer. I have disabled the wireless functionality, since I'm concerned about electrosmog. The non-R-version is fine, but will only connect using USB.
Regards,
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