Hello!
I need to build a bass guitar cabinet for a friend who wants to learn to play bass. I have a Resprom PA amplifier that is 115WPC into 8 ohms per channel. I also have all connectors and wires, etc... and cabinet material.
Now all I need is to build an enclosure. However, I have not yet decided on a driver and cabinet.
My driver choices are:
Pioneer TS-W309D4 12" subwoofer. Rated for 400W RMS and 1400W max. Dual voice coils, 4 ohms per coil. Could run one coil per channel and bridge amplifier input into mono. This one has plenty of power and can be tuned low. But it's quite dull at only 93db sensitivity.
RFT L3060 PB full range driver. Only 12.5W but 103db. 6 ohm coil. Also a 12". This one sounds amazing. Very warm and detailed, but could potentially have trouble hitting low notes. Probably good for a tube powered regular guitar speaker.
Four 8" woofers. Model 10GD-30B, made in the USSR. 30W and 8ohms a pop. Could run two per channel.
My friend would use the amp to just play indoors in medium or small rooms.
I already have a huge box for the RFT and it sounds amazing but doesn't play low. But it's a random box and is not designed for this speaker in mind.
Which driver should I use? And what kind of cabinet should I make? Someone please give me some cabinet plans 😀
I really like the RFT but, as I said, it might not play low enough. 4x8 would be good, perhaps? 🙂
Thanks!
I need to build a bass guitar cabinet for a friend who wants to learn to play bass. I have a Resprom PA amplifier that is 115WPC into 8 ohms per channel. I also have all connectors and wires, etc... and cabinet material.
Now all I need is to build an enclosure. However, I have not yet decided on a driver and cabinet.
My driver choices are:
Pioneer TS-W309D4 12" subwoofer. Rated for 400W RMS and 1400W max. Dual voice coils, 4 ohms per coil. Could run one coil per channel and bridge amplifier input into mono. This one has plenty of power and can be tuned low. But it's quite dull at only 93db sensitivity.
RFT L3060 PB full range driver. Only 12.5W but 103db. 6 ohm coil. Also a 12". This one sounds amazing. Very warm and detailed, but could potentially have trouble hitting low notes. Probably good for a tube powered regular guitar speaker.
Four 8" woofers. Model 10GD-30B, made in the USSR. 30W and 8ohms a pop. Could run two per channel.
My friend would use the amp to just play indoors in medium or small rooms.
I already have a huge box for the RFT and it sounds amazing but doesn't play low. But it's a random box and is not designed for this speaker in mind.
Which driver should I use? And what kind of cabinet should I make? Someone please give me some cabinet plans 😀
I really like the RFT but, as I said, it might not play low enough. 4x8 would be good, perhaps? 🙂
Thanks!
Last edited:
Don't think your gonna be happy with the outcome.
Unless I'm missing something here the PA amp will not have adequate frequency response for use as a Bass amplifier. As for using home stereo speakers or any speaker not specifically designed for guitar programming, every time I've tried that the speaker started out sounding great and in short order went Kaput! My last experience was with a Lowery or similar Organ that got parted out. I connected the speakers and solid state amp up to my amp emulator and within 2 hours of not even playing close to full throttle the speakers began to degrade. Hmmm. But the Organ must have put out quite the frequency range so why? Voice coil I guess. Not designed for raw power and the kind that hits the power supply rails and stays there as the output goes squarewave kinda....
I've never really gotten a definitive answer on this though and the last person to tell me you could use home audio speakers in guitar amp cabinets was a, Home Audio Systems salesman. If anyone could clarify this that would be most informative. My belief is: It don't work. But as James Montgomery would say: School Them Dice, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrHbIehm4VQ
Curiously interested,
Ccat.
Unless I'm missing something here the PA amp will not have adequate frequency response for use as a Bass amplifier. As for using home stereo speakers or any speaker not specifically designed for guitar programming, every time I've tried that the speaker started out sounding great and in short order went Kaput! My last experience was with a Lowery or similar Organ that got parted out. I connected the speakers and solid state amp up to my amp emulator and within 2 hours of not even playing close to full throttle the speakers began to degrade. Hmmm. But the Organ must have put out quite the frequency range so why? Voice coil I guess. Not designed for raw power and the kind that hits the power supply rails and stays there as the output goes squarewave kinda....
I've never really gotten a definitive answer on this though and the last person to tell me you could use home audio speakers in guitar amp cabinets was a, Home Audio Systems salesman. If anyone could clarify this that would be most informative. My belief is: It don't work. But as James Montgomery would say: School Them Dice, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrHbIehm4VQ
Curiously interested,
Ccat.
Well, drivers are just drivers 😉 Not sure if there is any significant constructional differences between a guitar driver and, say, a pro driver.
My amp is PA as in pro audio. Does a clean sweep from 20-16000Hz.
Pioneer is a car subwoofer, actually, so it is actually intended for long periods of deep bass. And I think you'd find frying a 400W voice coil quite hard with a 115W amp, especially when said coil is designed for torture and is well cooled 😀
The RFT is a cinema/concert/instrument driver and was used by Vermona in many guitar cabinets.
The 8 inchers are also quite universal, I've seen the 10GD-30 being used in all kinds of designs, anywhere from home audio to pro/live audio.
My amp is PA as in pro audio. Does a clean sweep from 20-16000Hz.
Pioneer is a car subwoofer, actually, so it is actually intended for long periods of deep bass. And I think you'd find frying a 400W voice coil quite hard with a 115W amp, especially when said coil is designed for torture and is well cooled 😀
The RFT is a cinema/concert/instrument driver and was used by Vermona in many guitar cabinets.
The 8 inchers are also quite universal, I've seen the 10GD-30 being used in all kinds of designs, anywhere from home audio to pro/live audio.
Hi,
I don't have so much real experience, but it's my hobby, so i past a lot of time every day reading and reading about those kind of stuff...
So, I would use both 12", passively crossed around 350hz. But it would need some work for crossover tweeking since they have big sensitivity difference. Here on diyaudio, crossover are often done state of art, but more simply done can be sufficient for bass cab. The pionner got high xmax, so can handle some pretty low notes, but nothing come free it has really big inductance/wish start filter maybe in low mids. For the l3060 if you like it use it, just protect that why i say to cross it too. And why such high freq crossover you may ask ? it's "cheaper"...that all, and still you should go with a serie crossover because it is even a bit cheaper (but harder). Another problem the pionner, long throw motor, is not so powerful, with only a qts of 0,81. Maybe try it closed. It need to be simed. If it sims well closed, it should be simplier than a bass reflex, and don't have the inherent problems of reflex. You'll probably finish with something as big as a 8x10", with 3/4 of the volume for the pioneer.
Still would be better to start with real parameters of speakers measured first, building cabs for (maybe closed for the pionner, and reflex for the rft...), measuring in cab freqs, calculating crossovers, and implementing it.
I suggest reflex for rft to flatten low freq resp, even if it will be crossed, for better coherency with crossed frequencies with the pionner, and it's easier to cross flat speakers.
That some works, and i'm actually doing something more or less similar, with a really long throw 10" wideband, and small 2,5" more or less long throw too, crossing at around 800hz. The differences is that i selected them with more or less the same sensitivity, and my 10" is done for reflex.
For a personnal project i'm working on, i use a 12" more or less like your pionner, 2x4", and a dome tweeter, but i'll cross active...
I don't have so much real experience, but it's my hobby, so i past a lot of time every day reading and reading about those kind of stuff...
So, I would use both 12", passively crossed around 350hz. But it would need some work for crossover tweeking since they have big sensitivity difference. Here on diyaudio, crossover are often done state of art, but more simply done can be sufficient for bass cab. The pionner got high xmax, so can handle some pretty low notes, but nothing come free it has really big inductance/wish start filter maybe in low mids. For the l3060 if you like it use it, just protect that why i say to cross it too. And why such high freq crossover you may ask ? it's "cheaper"...that all, and still you should go with a serie crossover because it is even a bit cheaper (but harder). Another problem the pionner, long throw motor, is not so powerful, with only a qts of 0,81. Maybe try it closed. It need to be simed. If it sims well closed, it should be simplier than a bass reflex, and don't have the inherent problems of reflex. You'll probably finish with something as big as a 8x10", with 3/4 of the volume for the pioneer.
Still would be better to start with real parameters of speakers measured first, building cabs for (maybe closed for the pionner, and reflex for the rft...), measuring in cab freqs, calculating crossovers, and implementing it.
I suggest reflex for rft to flatten low freq resp, even if it will be crossed, for better coherency with crossed frequencies with the pionner, and it's easier to cross flat speakers.
That some works, and i'm actually doing something more or less similar, with a really long throw 10" wideband, and small 2,5" more or less long throw too, crossing at around 800hz. The differences is that i selected them with more or less the same sensitivity, and my 10" is done for reflex.
For a personnal project i'm working on, i use a 12" more or less like your pionner, 2x4", and a dome tweeter, but i'll cross active...
Last edited:
Without knowing all the specs it's hard to say if any of the drivers will be worth using. Based off what you have the 4x8 will be the best bet by far.
The 12" will have no lows whatsoever and be destroyed shortly. The sub will barely make any noise and sound bad doing it.
The 12" will have no lows whatsoever and be destroyed shortly. The sub will barely make any noise and sound bad doing it.
The 8" won't have enough xmax. They'll distord with bass...
The sub can handle 50-350hz easily, and the L3060 above.
The L3060 will give the "color", whereas the sub will give the power.
Lot of bass player use PA cabs, or use simply DI without any problem.
The most important part is the crossover. Try asking on multiway forum for a first fast simulation of what it could cost.
The sub can handle 50-350hz easily, and the L3060 above.
The L3060 will give the "color", whereas the sub will give the power.
Lot of bass player use PA cabs, or use simply DI without any problem.
The most important part is the crossover. Try asking on multiway forum for a first fast simulation of what it could cost.
Bass guitar speakers are called mid bass speakers in the PA business. Here's a neo bass 12", and another conventional 12". If what you have is what you have to use, then I'd also go with both 12s crossed over, but I'd probably do it actively instead of passively since you have two amp channels.
Last edited:
^^ didn't see it was a PA amp. Of course, active cross is better. I'm currently soldering texas instrument pcb smd active crossover board in swap meet forum ^^. About bass speakers, as well said, they are often midbass PA kind, but serious gig use 4*12" or 8*10". Multiple speaker allow to compensate for low xmax, and low xmax allow indirectly, keeping wideband speaker characteric (high xmax=>higher voicecoil=>higher inductance=>lower natural low pass), and make the need for crossover at higher frequencie range, so that crossover is out of bass frequencie bandwith.
The effect of crossover on sound seems bit variable on people. Having simulated on myself, i'm not very sensible to the kind of crossover is used... The important part in crossover stuff (to make it easy) seems to keep 1 octave upper/lower crossover more or less flat on each ways.
Passive crossover can be faster to diy but hard to calcul well, active can be bought or can be harder to calculate AND diy.
The effect of crossover on sound seems bit variable on people. Having simulated on myself, i'm not very sensible to the kind of crossover is used... The important part in crossover stuff (to make it easy) seems to keep 1 octave upper/lower crossover more or less flat on each ways.
Passive crossover can be faster to diy but hard to calcul well, active can be bought or can be harder to calculate AND diy.
Last edited:
I might get a good deal on more of the 12" RFT drivers. 50€ shipped for a pair. One has a tiny bit of cone repair done from the back, nothing serious, nothing you'd notice, and nothing that changes the sound.
I actually looked them up on fleabay and you can imagine my excitement when I saw a pair go for 654€ incl. shipping with 17 bids. That's about 750$. Granted, they were the "long magnet" versions which, according to the seller, are supposedly a tad better sounding. But still, damn, 50€ shipped seems like a no-brainer 😀
I actually looked them up on fleabay and you can imagine my excitement when I saw a pair go for 654€ incl. shipping with 17 bids. That's about 750$. Granted, they were the "long magnet" versions which, according to the seller, are supposedly a tad better sounding. But still, damn, 50€ shipped seems like a no-brainer 😀
- Status
- Not open for further replies.