Hello, this is a first for me and I'm really not skilled in this domain (at all), I'm far more of a "diy loudspeaker guy" so please apply the "newbie-filter" hard on this inquiry.
I brought the Denon DN-C620 cd-player some time ago, a 1RU professional broadcast unit with loads of interesting output and control ports on the back and with an overall decent build quality, I mainly use it as a regular cd player and I'm happy with how it performs.
I recently got the urge to check what DAC was deployed in the unit as it was specified as a "16-Bit 44.1 Linear" conversion in the datasheet, with no further information, and well, thatś all fine and good seeing as the format requires it.
After some more investigation (i.e into Denon DN-C620 service manual) I came across a schematic showing the AKM AK4353 as the converter (unless I have misread something).
This is the point at which I get confused (happens very easily in this particular field) since the AKM AK4353 is a 96kHz 24-Bit DAC with DIT, or at least the AK4353VF is (I have no idea what the "VF" at the end means or if it makes any difference, the same goes for the "DIT").
So, In my layman's eyes it's not a 16bit 44.1kHz DAC after all, it is in fact a 24-Bit 96kHz DAC, so what is going on here? why do they "down specify" the dac?
Upon searching for the AK4353 I do not find anything pertaining to it being a DAC worthy of mention regarding it's sonic qualities, nor coud I find any mention of it in reviews such as one might find regarding the philips tda1541 or BurrBrown dac's deployed in more typical hi-fi cd players.
I brought the Denon DN-C620 cd-player some time ago, a 1RU professional broadcast unit with loads of interesting output and control ports on the back and with an overall decent build quality, I mainly use it as a regular cd player and I'm happy with how it performs.
I recently got the urge to check what DAC was deployed in the unit as it was specified as a "16-Bit 44.1 Linear" conversion in the datasheet, with no further information, and well, thatś all fine and good seeing as the format requires it.
After some more investigation (i.e into Denon DN-C620 service manual) I came across a schematic showing the AKM AK4353 as the converter (unless I have misread something).
This is the point at which I get confused (happens very easily in this particular field) since the AKM AK4353 is a 96kHz 24-Bit DAC with DIT, or at least the AK4353VF is (I have no idea what the "VF" at the end means or if it makes any difference, the same goes for the "DIT").
So, In my layman's eyes it's not a 16bit 44.1kHz DAC after all, it is in fact a 24-Bit 96kHz DAC, so what is going on here? why do they "down specify" the dac?
Upon searching for the AK4353 I do not find anything pertaining to it being a DAC worthy of mention regarding it's sonic qualities, nor coud I find any mention of it in reviews such as one might find regarding the philips tda1541 or BurrBrown dac's deployed in more typical hi-fi cd players.
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The CD format is 44.1 kHz, 16 bits, so maybe they simply don't use the lower eight bits because they are not on the CD? (That's assuming there is no digital interpolating filter or digital volume control driving the DAC chip.)
By the way, DIT usually stands for digital interface transceiver, that is, an S/PDIF or AES3 or Toslink interface. The last letters of an IC type number are usually a code indicating what package the chip is in.
By the way, DIT usually stands for digital interface transceiver, that is, an S/PDIF or AES3 or Toslink interface. The last letters of an IC type number are usually a code indicating what package the chip is in.
I was sort of thinking the same thing, but it seemed a bit strange (no pun intended), why not simply go for a standard 16-Bit DAC in that case, but as you say, maybe the other functions was required and that sort of decided it even if there where to be a few Bit's left over.
Maybe I'm too old (born in the mid seventies), I recall way back when digital was the most powerful buzzword in audio and the top CD players from Kenwood, Sony, Pioneers and Phillips all talked about the DAC's and made a big deal of the Bit's and oversampling rates, at times it was even written in text on the front of the device 🙂 (ahh... those where the days...)
So for an old dude like me this conundrum of mine became even worse, seeing as I was not able to find any mention of the DAC beyond the "16-Bit linear 44,1kHz" line in the spec sheet (I must confess to secretly hoping against hope that it would be the old TDA1541, preferably single crown) as I tend to get a bit nostalgic, again no pun intended 🙂
I know the professional industry does not hold with the typical consumer devices type of marketing, meaning trowing out seemingly impressive figures that bares little importance or invent new flashy three letter abbreviations for describing the mundane, same goes for professional amplifiers, still I believe, or want to believe that they have put some efforts into this, as I said it does sound good, even though the DAC as far as I can tell is fairly anonymous and difficult to find anything noteworthy about.
Maybe I'm too old (born in the mid seventies), I recall way back when digital was the most powerful buzzword in audio and the top CD players from Kenwood, Sony, Pioneers and Phillips all talked about the DAC's and made a big deal of the Bit's and oversampling rates, at times it was even written in text on the front of the device 🙂 (ahh... those where the days...)
So for an old dude like me this conundrum of mine became even worse, seeing as I was not able to find any mention of the DAC beyond the "16-Bit linear 44,1kHz" line in the spec sheet (I must confess to secretly hoping against hope that it would be the old TDA1541, preferably single crown) as I tend to get a bit nostalgic, again no pun intended 🙂
I know the professional industry does not hold with the typical consumer devices type of marketing, meaning trowing out seemingly impressive figures that bares little importance or invent new flashy three letter abbreviations for describing the mundane, same goes for professional amplifiers, still I believe, or want to believe that they have put some efforts into this, as I said it does sound good, even though the DAC as far as I can tell is fairly anonymous and difficult to find anything noteworthy about.
Depends what the "DAC" stands for.
Might be digital analog converter, thus could be called 24bit 96k.
Might be digital analog conversion, as a process and not an ic. Then it's 44.1/16.
The output is most surely has more than 16bit levels as it goes thru upsampling process. On the other hand, you can't invent nonexistent information, and thus, make it more than 16bit. If you look closely, you might find out it's not even 16bit dac, but 1-bit, 'coz it's delta-sigma 🙂 go figure...
Might be digital analog converter, thus could be called 24bit 96k.
Might be digital analog conversion, as a process and not an ic. Then it's 44.1/16.
The output is most surely has more than 16bit levels as it goes thru upsampling process. On the other hand, you can't invent nonexistent information, and thus, make it more than 16bit. If you look closely, you might find out it's not even 16bit dac, but 1-bit, 'coz it's delta-sigma 🙂 go figure...
Interesting, thank you, it seems that this has progressed in complexity compared to the "good old days" of the late eighties and early nineties 🙂 no wonder I got confused and I still am though just a bit better informed.
Still this AK4353 seems to be an odd choise for a pure DAC point of view, have not seen any other cd player that uses it which alomst make me worry that it was decided upon as a cheap and good enough device ratjer than one of excellent audio performance, my suspision is that they judged that they needed the extra bells and whistles of this aasumed conversion process rather the converter it self, it more or less came with the package so to speak, but all this is mere speculation.
What do you, far more knowledgable people, think of the choise of AK4353 as a DAC in a professional cd player?
Still this AK4353 seems to be an odd choise for a pure DAC point of view, have not seen any other cd player that uses it which alomst make me worry that it was decided upon as a cheap and good enough device ratjer than one of excellent audio performance, my suspision is that they judged that they needed the extra bells and whistles of this aasumed conversion process rather the converter it self, it more or less came with the package so to speak, but all this is mere speculation.
What do you, far more knowledgable people, think of the choise of AK4353 as a DAC in a professional cd player?
It was a modern DAC, good enough to match CD quality specs, with integrated S/P-DIF transmitter and digital filter, and easy to apply (integrated switched capacitor filter, so not too jitter sensitive, and unbalanced output). Absolutely none of the applications suggested in the DN-C620 datasheet scream "audiophile quality required".
If you insist, you can always use a fancy external DAC. Do not expect any real miracles though.
I don't think any mass-market manufacturer has used R2R multibit DACs since the early 2000s. That was the time when multibit delta-sigma DACs really took off and Wolfson Micro became a major DAC manufacturer in a short time. Mind you, most CD players would be using slightly posher DACs (e.g. WM8716 in mid-2000s Onkyos, and WM8740 in the bigger models).
If you insist, you can always use a fancy external DAC. Do not expect any real miracles though.
I don't think any mass-market manufacturer has used R2R multibit DACs since the early 2000s. That was the time when multibit delta-sigma DACs really took off and Wolfson Micro became a major DAC manufacturer in a short time. Mind you, most CD players would be using slightly posher DACs (e.g. WM8716 in mid-2000s Onkyos, and WM8740 in the bigger models).
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