Hello everyone. I'm thinking of building a pair of Dayton BR-1 speakers.
I would be interested in your opinion on whether to do it with your original crossover or with the crossover modification proposed by Dennis Murphy.
The drawer would have the measurements of Paul Carmody's Classic II.
The position of the drivers would be respected according to the original BR-1.
The duct would be later.
Another question is if the tweeter in Murphy's crossover mod is the Dayton DC28F-8 or does he have another.
First is original and second is Murphy.
http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=pe_br1.html
I would be interested in your opinion on whether to do it with your original crossover or with the crossover modification proposed by Dennis Murphy.
The drawer would have the measurements of Paul Carmody's Classic II.
The position of the drivers would be respected according to the original BR-1.
The duct would be later.
Another question is if the tweeter in Murphy's crossover mod is the Dayton DC28F-8 or does he have another.
First is original and second is Murphy.
http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=pe_br1.html
Attachments
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I had the opportunity to assemble a stock BR-1 kit from PE for a friend and have a good listen. The original crossover is minimalistic with cost in mind and as such doesn't correct the short comings of the midwoofer. The mids are a bit veiled and muddy, but for the money the kit is a good value to get started. It would be best to consider Carmondy's or Murphy's crossovers depending on how much you are willing to spend. Both are said to clean up the sound nicely, but I haven't heard them.
PJN. Thanks for answering. Paul Carmody's design uses another tweeter (Peerless by Tymphany BC25TG15-4).
To use your crossover you would have to substitute the Dayton Audio DC28F-8 for the Peerless.
To use your crossover you would have to substitute the Dayton Audio DC28F-8 for the Peerless.
Anything I've read about Mr Murphy's revised XO is positive - it's a significant upgrade in sound from the stock. However, Dennis did two crossovers for the BR-1 due to the changes in the tweeter which have happened over time. The one on his website is the original, so if you're using the latest DC28F, there is a better XO. You might find it on Parts Express Tech Talk.
One good thing about Dennis' XO - either version - is that he crosses the tweeter over a bit lower than the BR-1, which is a good thing as the DC160 doesn't have the best mid-range.
However, in your position, I'd also consider Paul Carmody's Classix II; the Vifa tweeter sounds a bit clearer, to my ears anyway. The DC28F can sound good, as in the TriTrix, but it has a sticky dome material which attracts fluff and insects. It has a soft-ish plastic mount with only three holes.
Geoff
One good thing about Dennis' XO - either version - is that he crosses the tweeter over a bit lower than the BR-1, which is a good thing as the DC160 doesn't have the best mid-range.
However, in your position, I'd also consider Paul Carmody's Classix II; the Vifa tweeter sounds a bit clearer, to my ears anyway. The DC28F can sound good, as in the TriTrix, but it has a sticky dome material which attracts fluff and insects. It has a soft-ish plastic mount with only three holes.
Geoff
Geoff Millar, I'm going to use the current DC28F.Geoff Millar, I'm going to use the DC28F last. I can't find Dennis' crossover for the latter.
As for the Classic II, I would have liked to, but I can't find the tweeter available for that crossover.
You say that Paul uses Vifa? I see you suggest a Peerless by Tymphany BC25TG15-4.
Is that what you mean that sounds clearer?
As for the Classic II, I would have liked to, but I can't find the tweeter available for that crossover.
You say that Paul uses Vifa? I see you suggest a Peerless by Tymphany BC25TG15-4.
Is that what you mean that sounds clearer?
Yes, that's the tweeter which Paul uses; I use both tweeters - the DC28F in the TriTrix MTM and the Vifa BC25TG in the Classix II - and to my ears the Vifa has the edge. The Dayton is quite acceptable, however, but I do find the sticky dome a right pain to try and clean. A speaker grille will help.
The difference between the two is only noticeable (to my ageing ears anyway) on things like violin harmonics - think Bach Partitas and Sonatas - and sometimes cymbals, such as the crash on Miles Davis' So What. But it still sounds pretty good for the money.
You could email Dennis, he's a really friendly and helpful bloke. If you really wanted to build the Classix, I have a new pair of the Vifas which might be an option, depending on where you live - the post could cost more than the tweeters!
Geoff
The difference between the two is only noticeable (to my ageing ears anyway) on things like violin harmonics - think Bach Partitas and Sonatas - and sometimes cymbals, such as the crash on Miles Davis' So What. But it still sounds pretty good for the money.
You could email Dennis, he's a really friendly and helpful bloke. If you really wanted to build the Classix, I have a new pair of the Vifas which might be an option, depending on where you live - the post could cost more than the tweeters!
Geoff
NB you can't substitute the Vifa for the Dayton in the BR-1, either with the original or Dennis' XO; and you can't substitute the Dayton for the Vifa in the Classix II. They're different speakers and won't sound right.
I recall a comparison test between Dennis' version of the BR-1 ("The Affordable Accuracy Monitor") and a commercial speaker which cost a lot more: Dennis' speaker was chosen as having the best sound. If I can find the link I'll post it.
You might find these discussions interesting:
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/45970-d-murphy-br-1-crossover-on-pe-pcb
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/19659-dayton-br-1
Geoff
I recall a comparison test between Dennis' version of the BR-1 ("The Affordable Accuracy Monitor") and a commercial speaker which cost a lot more: Dennis' speaker was chosen as having the best sound. If I can find the link I'll post it.
You might find these discussions interesting:
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/45970-d-murphy-br-1-crossover-on-pe-pcb
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/19659-dayton-br-1
Geoff
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Geoff, I really appreciate your input. I also appreciate the gesture of sending me the Vifa tweeters, but I live in Uruguay and I think the shipping cost would be very high.
I repeat, thank you very much.
Regarding the speakers, you have left me wondering.
Maybe wait for Vifas to be in stock and build the Classic II.
From what you say its sound is superior to the BR-1.
Greetings and thank you very much again.
Jose from Uruguay.
I repeat, thank you very much.
Regarding the speakers, you have left me wondering.
Maybe wait for Vifas to be in stock and build the Classic II.
From what you say its sound is superior to the BR-1.
Greetings and thank you very much again.
Jose from Uruguay.
If it's anything like post from the US, the post from Australia would be silly high - much better to order from a US supplier. I was going to order some tweeters from Parts Express : they were $A12 each but the post would have been about $A60!
There are many, many reviews of the Classix II, all of them good. Nothing against Dennis' BR-1 speaker, he's a very well respected designer, but you would .need his newer crossover for the best sound, I think. Can you get the Vifas from elsewhere?
The Classix can also be built as a TMM for higher sound output, but needs a larger cabinet of course. In a larger room, with bass heavy material, the DC160 woofer used in both speakers can run out of travel and distort; no problem in a study or bedroom.
Geoff
There are many, many reviews of the Classix II, all of them good. Nothing against Dennis' BR-1 speaker, he's a very well respected designer, but you would .need his newer crossover for the best sound, I think. Can you get the Vifas from elsewhere?
The Classix can also be built as a TMM for higher sound output, but needs a larger cabinet of course. In a larger room, with bass heavy material, the DC160 woofer used in both speakers can run out of travel and distort; no problem in a study or bedroom.
Geoff
I have looked at the Classic II TMM. It's a 2.5 setup.
I would like to build it in the future. I would also like to build Paul's Friends.
For now I will dedicate myself to the Classic II and if I do not get the Vifa tweeter I will go with the BR-1.
Greetings.
I would like to build it in the future. I would also like to build Paul's Friends.
For now I will dedicate myself to the Classic II and if I do not get the Vifa tweeter I will go with the BR-1.
Greetings.
Again. How can I get Denis's new crossover for the Dayton BR-1?
I haven't seen it on the internet.
I haven't seen it on the internet.
Hello again
I originally found the revised crossover via a Google search some time ago, but now I can't find it either; maybe search Parts Express Tech Talk?
You could also try emailing Dennis via his website, https://philharmonicaudio.com/
He doesn't sell the BR-1 based speaker any more, I think he uses a Morel tweeter instead with the DC160.
Geoff
I originally found the revised crossover via a Google search some time ago, but now I can't find it either; maybe search Parts Express Tech Talk?
You could also try emailing Dennis via his website, https://philharmonicaudio.com/
He doesn't sell the BR-1 based speaker any more, I think he uses a Morel tweeter instead with the DC160.
Geoff
Good luck and let us know how you go.
An advantage of buying the BR-1 kit is that you get the finished cabinets and don't have to make them, although Parts Express does sell the Classix II kit with a knock-down cabinet. I just bought all the drivers and XO bits and used Paul's excellent website to build them.
I made my cabinets myself, you can tell!
Geoff
An advantage of buying the BR-1 kit is that you get the finished cabinets and don't have to make them, although Parts Express does sell the Classix II kit with a knock-down cabinet. I just bought all the drivers and XO bits and used Paul's excellent website to build them.
I made my cabinets myself, you can tell!
Geoff
Attachments
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/philharmonic-audio-dennis-murphy.1348949/page-749
This thread mentions Dennis' second revision, i.e. the one you'd want, but I still can't find the details:
"Dennis worked MAGIC with the BR-1 Kit, the original AA based on that with the Dayton Tweeter was a significant improvement over the stock response. Then there was the AA+, replacing the Dayton Tweeter with the Morel, which was better still. Now he's refined the original AA with the Dayton Tweet to be just as good as the AA+! What?!!
He's a wizard!"
Geoff
This thread mentions Dennis' second revision, i.e. the one you'd want, but I still can't find the details:
"Dennis worked MAGIC with the BR-1 Kit, the original AA based on that with the Dayton Tweeter was a significant improvement over the stock response. Then there was the AA+, replacing the Dayton Tweeter with the Morel, which was better still. Now he's refined the original AA with the Dayton Tweet to be just as good as the AA+! What?!!
He's a wizard!"
Geoff
Your version of the BR-1 is very interesting.
I've emailed Dennis. he has answered me and sent the current diagrams.
They are much more complex, mainly in the tweeter sector, and also more expensive.
Since he has not published them, out of respect I cannot publish it.
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Excellent news, Dennis is really friendly and helpful: and of course the XO details are his intellectual property.
One of the things that good designers like Dennis can do is make inexpensive drivers sound good; in fact their designs with lower cost drivers can sound better than expensive drivers poorly handled. I would think that his work on the tweeter will be well worth any extra cost in parts.
My home made speakers are the Classix II - I would like to build the 2.5s but have no need to do so at present.
Good luck with your build!
Geoff
One of the things that good designers like Dennis can do is make inexpensive drivers sound good; in fact their designs with lower cost drivers can sound better than expensive drivers poorly handled. I would think that his work on the tweeter will be well worth any extra cost in parts.
My home made speakers are the Classix II - I would like to build the 2.5s but have no need to do so at present.
Good luck with your build!
Geoff