AD1862, Salas UBIB 1.3, Salas Reflektor-D, EUVL CM IV.Source RapberryPi (Moode Audio) and Allo Kali reclocker or CD player.
The Salas shunt resulted in more precise and tighter lows. The imaging is almost the best for me so far. I also tried the SEN IV, it's very good, but due to the complexity of the power supply, I stayed with the CM IV.
I just need to box it up, I'm completely satisfied with it at the moment.
Thank you Miro, EUVL and Salas. 🙂
The Salas shunt resulted in more precise and tighter lows. The imaging is almost the best for me so far. I also tried the SEN IV, it's very good, but due to the complexity of the power supply, I stayed with the CM IV.
I just need to box it up, I'm completely satisfied with it at the moment.
Thank you Miro, EUVL and Salas. 🙂
Attachments
I have a lot of old songs which are poorly recorded. I am currently using miro's ad1862. I am looking for another chip based dac that is very forgiving of poor recordings.
Definitely TDA1387, very smooth and analogue sounding dac, simple to implement and dirt cheap too.
But for me 'bad recordings' are bit of an illusive thing.
Almost every albums/tracks I had considered bad recordings in the past I now would consider 'demanding recordings' to be a more accurate description, for the purpose of finding and solving deficiencies in the chain these kind of recordings are the best choice and the 'good recordings' start to sound a bit flat and boring in comparison once you start to work out these issues.
For example the heavy use of compression in modern recordings results in much higher average power being pulled from the supplies, through the electronics and into your transducers, this is most apparent as 'compressed' sound in small speakers and in speaker amps with undersized power supplies, it's very easy to assume this compressed sound is from the compression used in recording, but they are distinctly different sounding things IME.
OTOH being accustomed to modern heavily compressed music the older, high DNR recordings often sound too bright and thin, exposing treble issues, tone/timbre issues and general 'digititus'. Usually associated with things like noisy PCs, USB, delta sigma DACs, ceramic caps, HF noise contamination, high NFB circuits and so on.
When a DAC can make those demanding recording sound good while at the same time bring out more depth and detail rather than smooth things over I think that tells you it is a playback problem rather than recording problem.
But for me 'bad recordings' are bit of an illusive thing.
Almost every albums/tracks I had considered bad recordings in the past I now would consider 'demanding recordings' to be a more accurate description, for the purpose of finding and solving deficiencies in the chain these kind of recordings are the best choice and the 'good recordings' start to sound a bit flat and boring in comparison once you start to work out these issues.
For example the heavy use of compression in modern recordings results in much higher average power being pulled from the supplies, through the electronics and into your transducers, this is most apparent as 'compressed' sound in small speakers and in speaker amps with undersized power supplies, it's very easy to assume this compressed sound is from the compression used in recording, but they are distinctly different sounding things IME.
OTOH being accustomed to modern heavily compressed music the older, high DNR recordings often sound too bright and thin, exposing treble issues, tone/timbre issues and general 'digititus'. Usually associated with things like noisy PCs, USB, delta sigma DACs, ceramic caps, HF noise contamination, high NFB circuits and so on.
When a DAC can make those demanding recording sound good while at the same time bring out more depth and detail rather than smooth things over I think that tells you it is a playback problem rather than recording problem.
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I have a lot of old songs which are poorly recorded. I am currently using miro's ad1862. I am looking for another chip based dac that is very forgiving of poor recordings.
What exactly is your sound issue with the "old songs"? What do you hear? Can you give an example of what your are hearing thats the problem?
I imagine you might be finding a high quality DAC a bit unforgiving of bad recordings and making you too aware of the technical issues that gets in the way of enjoying the music?
Id suggest before changing hardware and ditching a great AD1862 DAC:
1. Download a digital hires ADC of the original vinyl of a problematic song. Does that solve the issue? If yes it may be the ADC back in the day had filtering/ADC issues. If it still sounds bad in the same way then:
2. Use this super filter to feed your DAC (it wont work for everyone but it can be as significant as changing an output stage):
It is true that a better DAC reveals flaws in some recordings, but also those flaws should not irritate the listener.I have a lot of old songs which are poorly recorded. I am currently using miro's ad1862. I am looking for another chip based dac that is very forgiving of poor recordings.
Maybe you have a problem with the I/V conversion or in the following stages. ( HF noise, self-oscillations,mismatched impedances between stages,...)
I usually play digital rips in wav or flac format through allo digione signature powered by allo shanti into ad1862 (lm6171 as i/v). Amp is Sansui au alpha 607xr and speakers are xavian giulietta.What exactly is your sound issue with the "old songs"? What do you hear? Can you give an example of what your are hearing thats the problem?
I imagine you might be finding a high quality DAC a bit unforgiving of bad recordings and making you too aware of the technical issues that gets in the way of enjoying the music?
Id suggest before changing hardware and ditching a great AD1862 DAC:
1. Download a digital hires ADC of the original vinyl of a problematic song. Does that solve the issue? If yes it may be the ADC back in the day had filtering/ADC issues. If it still sounds bad in the same way then:
2. Use this super filter to feed your DAC (it wont work for everyone but it can be as significant as changing an output stage):
View attachment 1078872
Regarding the old songs, the music is sharp & edgy and after a few songs either I have to turn down the volume a fair bit or change the music. It seems either the songs were poorly recorded or mastered as even the new CDs of those songs sound like that.
No, I don't plan to dump the 1862. Nah never. I just want another dac which mellows down the sharpness and smoothens the edgy signature.
maybe the lm6171 is the culprit especially if mounted on an adapter or dip socket
from lm6171 ds;
Components Selection And Feedback Resistor
It is important in high speed applications to keep all component leads short because wires are inductive at high
frequency. For discrete components, choose carbon composition-type resistors and mica-type capacitors.
Surface mount components are preferred over discrete components for minimum inductive effect.
Large values of feedback resistors can couple with parasitic capacitance and cause undesirable effects such as
ringing or oscillation in high speed amplifiers. For LM6171, a feedback resistor of 510Ω gives optimal
performance
from lm6171 ds;
Components Selection And Feedback Resistor
It is important in high speed applications to keep all component leads short because wires are inductive at high
frequency. For discrete components, choose carbon composition-type resistors and mica-type capacitors.
Surface mount components are preferred over discrete components for minimum inductive effect.
Large values of feedback resistors can couple with parasitic capacitance and cause undesirable effects such as
ringing or oscillation in high speed amplifiers. For LM6171, a feedback resistor of 510Ω gives optimal
performance
Can't say with certainty that the opamps are the culprit as it is the old songs only that are unlistenable For well recorded songs especially the new releases, I have never heard them sound so euphonic.maybe the lm6171 is the culprit especially if mounted on an adapter or dip socket
from lm6171 ds;
Components Selection And Feedback Resistor
It is important in high speed applications to keep all component leads short because wires are inductive at high
frequency. For discrete components, choose carbon composition-type resistors and mica-type capacitors.
Surface mount components are preferred over discrete components for minimum inductive effect.
Large values of feedback resistors can couple with parasitic capacitance and cause undesirable effects such as
ringing or oscillation in high speed amplifiers. For LM6171, a feedback resistor of 510Ω gives optimal
performance
My last comment. No more OT
So your AD1862 DAC makes good recording sound great and bad recording bad. Sharp and edgy tracks can sometimes be rescued with EQ by turning up 200-600Hz and shelving down 1-3kHz. If you want a DA chip that can make digital sound more like vinyl to match bad engineering that was bearable on vinyl try a TDA1543 based DAC with a tubey output.
And why not try tubes on ad1862 DAC, maybe that would be the best solution because the tube plays better than the best op.amp.So your AD1862 DAC makes good recording sound great and bad recording bad. Sharp and edgy tracks can sometimes be rescued with EQ by turning up 200-600Hz and shelving down 1-3kHz. If you want a DA chip that can make digital sound more like vinyl to match bad engineering that was bearable on vinyl try a TDA1543 based DAC with a tubey output.
Yes could be. it starts with using the same stage for same Iout amount , BUT with different source impedance's of different dacs.mismatched impedances
Leading to hear different content in low registers (or as different consequences from events ih HF) caused by internal impedance of the I source?
Pssst...And why not try tubes on ad1862 DAC
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Strange. Here I am listening to Enrico Caruso: E Lucevan le stelle . The recording was taken in 1904...Unbelievable how good it is. There is a noise - but it doesn't matter.
I'm not sure with SS3601 that your claim is correct. We also compared it with the tubes in the test. It's very similar. On a blind test, I wouldn't guess which is which. But I could determine what PCM63P is blindfolded..😀the tube plays better than the best op.amp.
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For any recordings to be literally unlistenable strongly hints at an electrical issue, or some horribly bright and rough sounding speakers/headphones. Unusually euphonic, forward sound has been classic symptom of oscillating op amps, I guess it comes from high THD up to high orders, but if the op amp's operation is broken who knows what disaster is happening in real music beyond the THD.
If you dont want the hassle of tubes (passive I/V with tube gain stage, otherwise it's band-aid over your current issues) you might try OPA861 instead... much cheaper and simpler. They wont sound as dead or cold as properly implemented zero THD op amp and they will sound more natural and realistic since they are a lot better suited for a DAC output stage.
No doubt there are a lot of smaller issues in the chain contributing to the issues your having also, but tweaking rabbit hole is probably better avoided for your own sanity. The main thing is that you use a well isolated, low jitter i2S source.
Also AD1862 was not an especially smooth sounding DAC ime.
If you dont want the hassle of tubes (passive I/V with tube gain stage, otherwise it's band-aid over your current issues) you might try OPA861 instead... much cheaper and simpler. They wont sound as dead or cold as properly implemented zero THD op amp and they will sound more natural and realistic since they are a lot better suited for a DAC output stage.
No doubt there are a lot of smaller issues in the chain contributing to the issues your having also, but tweaking rabbit hole is probably better avoided for your own sanity. The main thing is that you use a well isolated, low jitter i2S source.
Also AD1862 was not an especially smooth sounding DAC ime.
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Output stage choice makes a big difference with this DAC - lots of choices out there in both solid state and valve from the ultra cheap and easy 6n2 SRPP stages from Aliexpress all the way to some of the designs posted by EUVL in this thread and elsewhere. Lots to choose from!!
And the tube may sound bad or average if it is badly implemented, at least two double triodes (but not SRPP) are required for a good DAC output stage .I'm not sure with SS3601 that your claim is correct. We also compared it with the tubes in the test. It's very similar. On a blind test, I wouldn't guess which is which. But I could determine what PCM63P is blindfolded..😀
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