Member
Joined 2002
Well I finally Picked my project for my aleph 2’s now I have a question for these. Here is the link to what I’m building.
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=CRITERION
My question is should I put them in a tower configuration. Using the same volume to spec. I like the tower idea because then I don’t have to build stands and worry about speakers height and ect ect. Anyone post there thoughts. ?
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=CRITERION
My question is should I put them in a tower configuration. Using the same volume to spec. I like the tower idea because then I don’t have to build stands and worry about speakers height and ect ect. Anyone post there thoughts. ?
Attachments
I dunno... If you want to, I guess...
The only thing I can think of is that they aren't very big speakers and you would lose some flexibility in you ability to place them.
You should email Bob (creative) at www.creativesound.ca or Al (RAW) at www.rawacoustics.ca
They will be able to tell you about any possible problems with turning those into floorstanders.
PS did you check out the Alpha LS at creativesound?
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=AlphaLS
I got to see(and hear) them at John's(of Bent Audio) house. He had them painted all black. Pretty damn sweet!
The only thing I can think of is that they aren't very big speakers and you would lose some flexibility in you ability to place them.
You should email Bob (creative) at www.creativesound.ca or Al (RAW) at www.rawacoustics.ca
They will be able to tell you about any possible problems with turning those into floorstanders.
PS did you check out the Alpha LS at creativesound?
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=AlphaLS
I got to see(and hear) them at John's(of Bent Audio) house. He had them painted all black. Pretty damn sweet!
Member
Joined 2002
Yeah i wanted to build them the alepha ls but there so expencive. i want to start off small right now then go bigger. i just emailed bob. ill see what he has to say.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Member
Joined 2002
Well I can say that the Criterion is a smooth design done for CSS by GR.
Email Danny and he can asnwer any questions about the Tower idea.
I will not comment on it.
There is a MTM coming soon.Danny has it on his boards but not up on line yet.
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=1628
This will fit a larger cabinet.
Bob and I are working on Flat packs for the Criterion.
I have switched to Lock miter cabinets for resale as it makes assembly a snap and a set can be assembled in minutes with only DUCT TAPE.Clamps would be better but this tape will work.
The Criterions is tricky as the cabinets are 1.25" thick and there is only one BIT in CANADA OR THE USA that will cut lock miter for the small shop .
And if you cut a large 3/4" radius on the corners it cuts deap into the lock miter and this means filling.
Not a lot but still enough.
So we are thinking out the assembly of the Criterion to do it once only.
Over all you will love them.I was stunned the first time I listened to them.I have built 2 designs of the Criterion.The first used the M130 driver from GR.But Danny seen the EATON as a 100% improvment over the M130 and I agree to a point.
The first one I built with the M130 driver is a bang for the dolloar but I am not sure it will fly.
I have a few picks of it on my DIY site.
http://quicksitebuilder.cnet.com/wrnch2/diyspeakerbuilding/id13.html
Al
Email Danny and he can asnwer any questions about the Tower idea.
I will not comment on it.
There is a MTM coming soon.Danny has it on his boards but not up on line yet.
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=1628
This will fit a larger cabinet.
Bob and I are working on Flat packs for the Criterion.
I have switched to Lock miter cabinets for resale as it makes assembly a snap and a set can be assembled in minutes with only DUCT TAPE.Clamps would be better but this tape will work.
The Criterions is tricky as the cabinets are 1.25" thick and there is only one BIT in CANADA OR THE USA that will cut lock miter for the small shop .
And if you cut a large 3/4" radius on the corners it cuts deap into the lock miter and this means filling.
Not a lot but still enough.
So we are thinking out the assembly of the Criterion to do it once only.
Over all you will love them.I was stunned the first time I listened to them.I have built 2 designs of the Criterion.The first used the M130 driver from GR.But Danny seen the EATON as a 100% improvment over the M130 and I agree to a point.
The first one I built with the M130 driver is a bang for the dolloar but I am not sure it will fly.
I have a few picks of it on my DIY site.
http://quicksitebuilder.cnet.com/wrnch2/diyspeakerbuilding/id13.html
Al
Member
Joined 2002
I'm going perchase pre maid Boxes. so that way i dont ahve to build them. i like the marble ones alot. im going to buy the speakers pritty quickly. What do you mean the flat pac.?? what is the. difrent x-over design.? Should i keep the x-overs in the boxes, or make them external.
Member
Joined 2002
You have these drivers on your webpage. Do you reccon them for sub's. I would like to know where you get them and how much. i would like 4 of them. i need 4 for my subs that will be going with my Criterions. that or ill buy 2 x 10" subs. i like bass some times and i also want drivers that can pack a NICE punch and handle some beef.
Attachments
http://quicksitebuilder.cnet.com/wrnch2/id11.html
Falt pack means that the cabinets come un assembled.
Bob at CSS is getting me to finish a few sets of the Criterion MTin the following weeks.
These will be in Maple veneer.
But yes the Marble look from Brian is neet lookin.
The drivers you see in the above photo you seen on my DIY site are the TB and MCM 8" drivers
TBW8-740C
MCM 2421
I have done a lot of testing with these and if you look in the older files you can find alot on these.
But I will make a few more newer comments.
I have used these 8" subs in a few ways.
All tests were done in a 12" cube
SEALED will only work with a small AMP with boost in around 35hz, out put well modest to say the least.Nothing special.
Ported 2" X14" still port noise that can be used as your girlfriends blow dryer!!
With a single PR that MCM sent to test with these.
Not recommended as the XMAX is only 6-8mm and that is it.
Twin MCM PR
MCM sent me 2 do test and the single just can not work and the output using the 2 is still very very limited.If you are going to use the MCM PRS get 4 of them.
Lastest tests
Using the RCM PR with 50MM of XMAX.Yes 50MM of XMAX
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=BXP10
These are unreal PRs.
a single PR weighted starting around 250g is were I am now and these 8" drivers are a sub.Albe darned😱
The drivers need a high excursion PR with a stiff compliance.Well the RCM is just that PR.
Twin RCM PR's
Well the MCM and TB 8 will get to the 25 range and that is about it.Well I mean these are on 8" drivers correct.What else you going to get out of them.
At the last test using the twin RCM pr's I was getting the cabinets 3 sides loaded with 1.5" peak to peak foam and the TB is the one I have installed at this time and even Bob from CSS that just listened yesterday was stunned by the output of the TB and the TWIN pr's.
But in the real world I am going to be finishing this up in the next few weeks with a single RCM pr as that is what most will be done.
I just got the 2 PRs from MCM and CSS to do test with these 8" subs.
IF I had to pick of the TB and MCM.Well the TB is a stiller compliance over the MCM.Th MCM has better venting over the TB.The MCM has a rated XMAX higher over the TB.
But in the end they are very very close to being the same output.
So it is just a cost issue.
$20? from MCM $30? from the Canadian company.
AL
Falt pack means that the cabinets come un assembled.
Bob at CSS is getting me to finish a few sets of the Criterion MTin the following weeks.
These will be in Maple veneer.
But yes the Marble look from Brian is neet lookin.
The drivers you see in the above photo you seen on my DIY site are the TB and MCM 8" drivers
TBW8-740C
MCM 2421
I have done a lot of testing with these and if you look in the older files you can find alot on these.
But I will make a few more newer comments.
I have used these 8" subs in a few ways.
All tests were done in a 12" cube
SEALED will only work with a small AMP with boost in around 35hz, out put well modest to say the least.Nothing special.
Ported 2" X14" still port noise that can be used as your girlfriends blow dryer!!
With a single PR that MCM sent to test with these.
Not recommended as the XMAX is only 6-8mm and that is it.
Twin MCM PR
MCM sent me 2 do test and the single just can not work and the output using the 2 is still very very limited.If you are going to use the MCM PRS get 4 of them.
Lastest tests
Using the RCM PR with 50MM of XMAX.Yes 50MM of XMAX
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=BXP10
These are unreal PRs.
a single PR weighted starting around 250g is were I am now and these 8" drivers are a sub.Albe darned😱
The drivers need a high excursion PR with a stiff compliance.Well the RCM is just that PR.
Twin RCM PR's
Well the MCM and TB 8 will get to the 25 range and that is about it.Well I mean these are on 8" drivers correct.What else you going to get out of them.
At the last test using the twin RCM pr's I was getting the cabinets 3 sides loaded with 1.5" peak to peak foam and the TB is the one I have installed at this time and even Bob from CSS that just listened yesterday was stunned by the output of the TB and the TWIN pr's.
But in the real world I am going to be finishing this up in the next few weeks with a single RCM pr as that is what most will be done.
I just got the 2 PRs from MCM and CSS to do test with these 8" subs.
IF I had to pick of the TB and MCM.Well the TB is a stiller compliance over the MCM.Th MCM has better venting over the TB.The MCM has a rated XMAX higher over the TB.
But in the end they are very very close to being the same output.
So it is just a cost issue.
$20? from MCM $30? from the Canadian company.
AL
Sorry forgot the xover question you had.
The first version of the Criterion i built is on the DIY site in the veneer.
The New version I did for Bob that will be sent around Canada as Danny has in the USA is in a Black liner spray.The finish is done this way for a cheap and durable finish.That we will have a set that will take the shipping around Canada Post and if need a touch up can be done so very easy.
More info will be on CSS site soon.
Al
The first version of the Criterion i built is on the DIY site in the veneer.
The New version I did for Bob that will be sent around Canada as Danny has in the USA is in a Black liner spray.The finish is done this way for a cheap and durable finish.That we will have a set that will take the shipping around Canada Post and if need a touch up can be done so very easy.
More info will be on CSS site soon.
Al
Member
Joined 2002
How do i get on this list to recieve them to listen to. since every one els has listend to them i would like to gain the opertunity to. How. though.
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=1145&start=0
here is a little info from those at a meet ant Johns place a few months ago.
The list email Bob at CSS he will have more on his site soon.He is out of town till Wednesday April 2 next week so give him a few days.
Al
here is a little info from those at a meet ant Johns place a few months ago.
The list email Bob at CSS he will have more on his site soon.He is out of town till Wednesday April 2 next week so give him a few days.
Al
Hey JasonL,
I noticed you plan to do a sub for these speaks - why not build/buy the mid/tweet enclosures, and do a seperate sub cab per speaker as the speakerstand.. same width, your choice of height and whatever depth you need.
Hope it goes well,
Cheers
Rob
I noticed you plan to do a sub for these speaks - why not build/buy the mid/tweet enclosures, and do a seperate sub cab per speaker as the speakerstand.. same width, your choice of height and whatever depth you need.
Hope it goes well,
Cheers
Rob
Member
Joined 2002
DUDE.! I am goig to do that LOL. that is my total plan. Im thinking either port out the back or out the front. If it is out the back it can bounce off the wall and create more bass. What you think..
hehe!
I'll be honest and say that I prefer sealed to ported. I'd be looking at a Linkwitz transform. - this also means you can make the boxes smaller.......
You said they should handle some power so I guess your amps are already big eniough to handle some bass boost..
I'm sure some people will disagree with me though!
Cheers
Rob
I'll be honest and say that I prefer sealed to ported. I'd be looking at a Linkwitz transform. - this also means you can make the boxes smaller.......
You said they should handle some power so I guess your amps are already big eniough to handle some bass boost..
I'm sure some people will disagree with me though!
Cheers
Rob
Member
Joined 2002
Yeah i have 2 av800's that im working on ( SLOOOWWWLY ) that i will use topower them I my self hae always loved ported. Lets the speaker Breath. BUt the question is i need Reccomendations on 8" drivers i need 4 any one know of some. ?
Sorry - I haven't any experience of 8" drivers...
If you do get some recommendations make sure you model a pair against 1x 10" and 1x 12" for the cost of 2 8" you can get a better quality 10/12.......( depends on the output levels aswell I suppose...)
Cheers
Rob
btw - Planet10 would probably recommend your 2x8" being done push/push... Worth a try if you go for the 8's...
If you do get some recommendations make sure you model a pair against 1x 10" and 1x 12" for the cost of 2 8" you can get a better quality 10/12.......( depends on the output levels aswell I suppose...)
Cheers
Rob
btw - Planet10 would probably recommend your 2x8" being done push/push... Worth a try if you go for the 8's...
Member
Joined 2002
i could buy 2 of these one per channel. and use the av800's to power them but i like the thin sleek look o a sub.
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=DPL12
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=DPL12
RobWells said:
Rob has that right... 2 x8 or 2 x10, or 2 x12...
Jason, you are getting pretty close to what we were talking about, Jordan+Ribbon (i would expect the Jordan to outperform -- especially considering there would probably be less XO in the way), but the Criterion is a sure thing.
As to 8" for bass, Peerless make one of the best (i'll go pull one out of the box to get the number). These aren't subs per say, but are a lot easier to get to mate with a sat.
Decent 8" subs at a bargain price can be had at ApexJr. (You'd probably need 4/channel to go head-to-head with the Adire in terms of moving air) They do fit into a TINY alphaTL -- 4 would go into a square prism -- one on each face at the bottom -- 56 3/4" long with sides of 13 1/2" (internal dimensions) stuffed with 1.61 pounds of polyester wool.
Not very many 8s will go as low as a 10s or 12s thou (a function of Fs).
dave
Member
Joined 2002
how about i use 2 of these then.
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=DPL12
or 2 of these
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=Shiva
of cours i would get 2 one per channel.
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=DPL12
or 2 of these
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=Shiva
of cours i would get 2 one per channel.
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