Have access to one for $90. I do not know what type of tubes it uses in the power amp section, but it has loads of original conn CLEAR TOP?????? 12au7's in the oscilator section. The 12au7's appear to be RCA's judging from the engraving on the glass.
From what I could find about it online it appears to be a caprice model, but I can't find much more than that. When I looked in the back down at the amp, I could see a massive power tranny, at least four GT shape tubes ( at least I think they were, they could be 7189's.) , a rectifier, and two 10 or 15 watt size OPT's.
As a project for scavenging the electronics, would it be worth $90 or should I try to talk them down?
From what I could find about it online it appears to be a caprice model, but I can't find much more than that. When I looked in the back down at the amp, I could see a massive power tranny, at least four GT shape tubes ( at least I think they were, they could be 7189's.) , a rectifier, and two 10 or 15 watt size OPT's.
As a project for scavenging the electronics, would it be worth $90 or should I try to talk them down?
Hi Dude,ThSpeakerDude88 said:
Is the organ in good, working order? It would be a shame to destroy it for a handful of old, worn-out valves and a couple of transformers that may not be that suitable for Hi-Fi.
If you are after the original RCA valves, you could pull them, and re-furbish it for re-sale I suppose.
well I have no idea why they want $90 for it. Yes it is in working condition, but the organ its self is very beat up. I'm sure the opt's wouldn't be good for hifi, but maybe guitar use, and the power transformer might be suitable as a hifi power xfrmr. I believe this organ uses an 0A2 gas voltage regulator too..
ThSpeakerDude88 said:
Well, whatever you decide to do with it, first make sure it powers-up and plays - who knows, the electronics could be shot to bits
(Oh pedantic mood: shouldn't your sig read
always preach the gospel-
and, when necessary, use words.
Sorry, couldn't help it 😀
haha I have no idea how that I got in there! Thanks I'll fix that 😛
I went back and looked at the organ. Price is now $69. Organ works fine. Has two 12 inch alnico mag woofers, and lookie what I dug up.
http://www.ultraelectronicactive.com/StarGarTubeAmps.html
Scroll down on the page and thats the exact amp that is in it. It apparently uses 7868 tubes ( 4 of them!), which are the mil. equiv. of 7591's , making for around 30 watts per channel. Also has some vintage 12ax7's in it.
As I understand, RCA cleartop 12au7's are both rare and desireable. This thing is loaded with them..
I went back and looked at the organ. Price is now $69. Organ works fine. Has two 12 inch alnico mag woofers, and lookie what I dug up.
http://www.ultraelectronicactive.com/StarGarTubeAmps.html
Scroll down on the page and thats the exact amp that is in it. It apparently uses 7868 tubes ( 4 of them!), which are the mil. equiv. of 7591's , making for around 30 watts per channel. Also has some vintage 12ax7's in it.
As I understand, RCA cleartop 12au7's are both rare and desireable. This thing is loaded with them..
I wouldn't get too excited about those cleartop 12AU7A imo they are amongst the least good sounding I've encountered and measured poorly for linearity when I tested some years ago. They're likely to have plenty of hours on them too.
Seems like the package otherwise is interesting enough to go for it, particularly at the price.
Seems like the package otherwise is interesting enough to go for it, particularly at the price.
alright. By the way I found the organ online, it is not a caprice model as I thought. It is a Conn Minuet 461. I may pick it up tomarrow. It looks like maybe two of the output tubes have been replaced. If anything it will be an interesting project and may make a decent stereo amp, and if not I could always make a good guitar amp out of it, or sell the tubes as the power tubes are getting quite scarce. EH makes repros however. I understand the 7868 is electricaly close to a 6L6?
ThSpeakerDude88 said:
No, not close at all. The 7868 is a very similar to the 7591 electrically - in many cases the "guts" used for both are probably the same. The 6GM5 is the same type also.
You may be able to re-design the amp for 6L6s, but it's not a plug and play change...
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen
ahh ok. Well at any rate, the amp sure would have enough power on tap to drive a couple of 6L6's if I did decide to convert.
I'm hoping that its worth the $69 for what I get: two 12" alnico woofers, the nice 60 watt tube amp, a reverb tank ( maybe a hammond or accutronics?) and a bunch of 12au7's to use for something or sell. Btw, the opt's are about the size (physically) of a hammond 125CSE.
I'm hoping that its worth the $69 for what I get: two 12" alnico woofers, the nice 60 watt tube amp, a reverb tank ( maybe a hammond or accutronics?) and a bunch of 12au7's to use for something or sell. Btw, the opt's are about the size (physically) of a hammond 125CSE.
Well the lady laughed at me when I said I wanted it for its parts, and she dropped the price to $49 😀
What I got: I found out it was indeed a conn caprice, and when I opened the back I got a nice little surprise: A Jensen special design magnet sticking out of a leslie unit!
I opened it up first, and found out it is a 1964 Jensen C8R. Took that home and popped it in my 6aq5 amp and it sounds GREAT!
Aside from that, I got two clevland 12 inch alnico woofers ( date code: 433441 = cleveland, 1964, 41st week.) I would like to make not that Rola ( owned at the time by Jensen) was made in Cleveland ohio, and that the baskets are identacle to each other. Were cleveland speakers made by Rola?
About the amp: It has a 0a3 Gas regulator, made by RCA ( will make a cool night light!)A 6DN7 made by GE ( code 188-20,64-43= 43rd week 1964), two RCA 12ax7's ( code 247), two RCA 7868's and I believe two sylvanias? I am not sure, two are the domed top, and two have the dome on the bottom inside the pins. The output transformers are Woodward-Schumacher's ( code 606) and appear to be about 30 watts each. They might be good for 15 watts or so Hi-fi. I am currently emailing schumacher to see if they have any info on the xfrmrs, the rest of the code reads : K-58459 -606-4-21 ( 606-4-21 is date code for 21st week 1964).
All of the cleartop 12au7A's are RCA brand. It also has a weirdie in the bunch, a 12DT8 ( short black plates, square getter).
So far I am happy with my purchace for tinkering purposes 🙂
I tried out the RCA 12ax7's in my high gain 5 watt amp, and they sounded wonderful- creamy and full compared to my JJ's, but with higher microphonics, and since I do not have shields, I cannot turn up the volume very high without some oscilation.
On a side note the 12ax7's have long grey plates.
What I got: I found out it was indeed a conn caprice, and when I opened the back I got a nice little surprise: A Jensen special design magnet sticking out of a leslie unit!
I opened it up first, and found out it is a 1964 Jensen C8R. Took that home and popped it in my 6aq5 amp and it sounds GREAT!
Aside from that, I got two clevland 12 inch alnico woofers ( date code: 433441 = cleveland, 1964, 41st week.) I would like to make not that Rola ( owned at the time by Jensen) was made in Cleveland ohio, and that the baskets are identacle to each other. Were cleveland speakers made by Rola?
About the amp: It has a 0a3 Gas regulator, made by RCA ( will make a cool night light!)A 6DN7 made by GE ( code 188-20,64-43= 43rd week 1964), two RCA 12ax7's ( code 247), two RCA 7868's and I believe two sylvanias? I am not sure, two are the domed top, and two have the dome on the bottom inside the pins. The output transformers are Woodward-Schumacher's ( code 606) and appear to be about 30 watts each. They might be good for 15 watts or so Hi-fi. I am currently emailing schumacher to see if they have any info on the xfrmrs, the rest of the code reads : K-58459 -606-4-21 ( 606-4-21 is date code for 21st week 1964).
All of the cleartop 12au7A's are RCA brand. It also has a weirdie in the bunch, a 12DT8 ( short black plates, square getter).
So far I am happy with my purchace for tinkering purposes 🙂
I tried out the RCA 12ax7's in my high gain 5 watt amp, and they sounded wonderful- creamy and full compared to my JJ's, but with higher microphonics, and since I do not have shields, I cannot turn up the volume very high without some oscilation.
On a side note the 12ax7's have long grey plates.
ThSpeakerDude88 said:Well the lady laughed at me when I said I wanted it for its parts, and she dropped the price to $49 😀
What I got: I found out it was indeed a conn caprice, and when I opened the back I got a nice little surprise: A Jensen special design magnet sticking out of a leslie unit!
I opened it up first, and found out it is a 1964 Jensen C8R. Took that home and popped it in my 6aq5 amp and it sounds GREAT!
Aside from that, I got two clevland 12 inch alnico woofers ( date code: 433441 = cleveland, 1964, 41st week.) I would like to make not that Rola ( owned at the time by Jensen) was made in Cleveland ohio, and that the baskets are identacle to each other. Were cleveland speakers made by Rola?
About the amp: It has a 0a3 Gas regulator, made by RCA ( will make a cool night light!)A 6DN7 made by GE ( code 188-20,64-43= 43rd week 1964), two RCA 12ax7's ( code 247), two RCA 7868's and I believe two sylvanias? I am not sure, two are the domed top, and two have the dome on the bottom inside the pins. The output transformers are Woodward-Schumacher's ( code 606) and appear to be about 30 watts each. They might be good for 15 watts or so Hi-fi. I am currently emailing schumacher to see if they have any info on the xfrmrs, the rest of the code reads : K-58459 -606-4-21 ( 606-4-21 is date code for 21st week 1964).
All of the cleartop 12au7A's are RCA brand. It also has a weirdie in the bunch, a 12DT8 ( short black plates, square getter).
So far I am happy with my purchace for tinkering purposes 🙂
I tried out the RCA 12ax7's in my high gain 5 watt amp, and they sounded wonderful- creamy and full compared to my JJ's, but with higher microphonics, and since I do not have shields, I cannot turn up the volume very high without some oscilation.
On a side note the 12ax7's have long grey plates.
Well done, I think you have got a bargain there! Worth it for the speakers alone 😀
yeah, especially that Jensen.
Edit: I JUST had a chance to stick one of those 12's in my empty classic 30 extension cab- WOW is all I can say! Who would think such a cheap speaker sounded so GOOD!? Its not dark like my Jensen C10 is, its got sparkly highs WITHOUT being harsh, and the distortion sounds so creamy and edgy at the same time through it! Of cource the vintage 12ax7's are helping that, but they are microphonic so I cant turn up the amp. I will unfortunatly have to put my JJ's back in for gigging. ( Yes, I gig with a 5 watt amp, mic'd of cource)
Edit: I JUST had a chance to stick one of those 12's in my empty classic 30 extension cab- WOW is all I can say! Who would think such a cheap speaker sounded so GOOD!? Its not dark like my Jensen C10 is, its got sparkly highs WITHOUT being harsh, and the distortion sounds so creamy and edgy at the same time through it! Of cource the vintage 12ax7's are helping that, but they are microphonic so I cant turn up the amp. I will unfortunatly have to put my JJ's back in for gigging. ( Yes, I gig with a 5 watt amp, mic'd of cource)
I finally got it working! didn't take much, I just had to trace the inputs/outputs. I only used one channel. The weird thing is it sounds like it sonly putting out around 10-15 watts per channel, probably closer to 10 because it doesn't quite outpower my Onkyo which is 15wpch RMS. Shouldnt an amp like this be doing 20-30 watts/channel? I tried it with both sets of output tubes. Also, the 0a3 Gas regulator flashes internally when the amp is driven to hard clipping. The 0a3 does not seem to have anything to do with the amp section that I know of. What is going on here? Maybe worn output valves?
Can you post pics of the 12 inch drivers? The amp chassis?
The gas reg tube may be regulating the output tube screens. If it is blinking (extinguishing) that likely means the screens are hogging current trying to go loud, an indicator the output tubes are soft (weak). I`ll bet you get a lot of distortion at this point.
Old vintage tubed organs are a treat to find. I got a large Lowrey, circa late 50`s with 98 tubes and built in rotating Leslie from the Pastor of a local church as he was about to drop it off at the local landfill site. It has the large bass pedals that require a special splayed feet bench to clear them. I got one of those from another source. My Lowrey is in working condition! It also has a two channel power amp which employs those goofy 5881 or whatever, hard to find output tubes. I hate to part it out and want to keep it original as a museum piece. Weighs a ton. I was told the keyboard player in the group called `The Band` used this model organ.
I notice the ranks on this have way more keys than is on a normal more modern organ. You can go farther without shifting gears. 😀
The gas reg tube may be regulating the output tube screens. If it is blinking (extinguishing) that likely means the screens are hogging current trying to go loud, an indicator the output tubes are soft (weak). I`ll bet you get a lot of distortion at this point.
Old vintage tubed organs are a treat to find. I got a large Lowrey, circa late 50`s with 98 tubes and built in rotating Leslie from the Pastor of a local church as he was about to drop it off at the local landfill site. It has the large bass pedals that require a special splayed feet bench to clear them. I got one of those from another source. My Lowrey is in working condition! It also has a two channel power amp which employs those goofy 5881 or whatever, hard to find output tubes. I hate to part it out and want to keep it original as a museum piece. Weighs a ton. I was told the keyboard player in the group called `The Band` used this model organ.
I notice the ranks on this have way more keys than is on a normal more modern organ. You can go farther without shifting gears. 😀
Attachments
here is the amp: http://getchellaudio.googlepages.com/022.JPG
and the bottom: note bad resistor, I replaced it.
http://getchellaudio.googlepages.com/023.JPG
http://getchellaudio.googlepages.com/024.JPG
As far as the amp goes, there is another one just like it on ebay right now.
The speaker, I found a set from an earlier ( 1960-62 caprice 431) on ebay , they had a lable on them that said Cletron ( made by cleveland). Same things. Heres some pics:
and the bottom: note bad resistor, I replaced it.
http://getchellaudio.googlepages.com/023.JPG
http://getchellaudio.googlepages.com/024.JPG
As far as the amp goes, there is another one just like it on ebay right now.
The speaker, I found a set from an earlier ( 1960-62 caprice 431) on ebay , they had a lable on them that said Cletron ( made by cleveland). Same things. Heres some pics:
Attachments
I tested the tubes, both pairs are apparently matched, tested about 85-90 on a b&k mutual conductance tester.
I traced the circuit and found the 0A3 has nothing to do with the amplifier section, rather it is a voltage regulator for the power oscilator section ( 6DN7 powered) which I believe was for tremelo/vibrato, and probably drove the leslie speaker inside.
Another WEIRD thing, look closeley at the diodes in the upper left corner. If you trace them and draw it on a schematic, it looks just like a voltage doubler! However I can't be sure because I do not have a schematic to list the x-frmr taps. Can I find out by the color coding on the wires? I know a lot of transformers have general color codings, IE red & red/yel. for the HT, green or brown for heaters, green/yel. heater ct, black for mains.
I traced the circuit and found the 0A3 has nothing to do with the amplifier section, rather it is a voltage regulator for the power oscilator section ( 6DN7 powered) which I believe was for tremelo/vibrato, and probably drove the leslie speaker inside.
Another WEIRD thing, look closeley at the diodes in the upper left corner. If you trace them and draw it on a schematic, it looks just like a voltage doubler! However I can't be sure because I do not have a schematic to list the x-frmr taps. Can I find out by the color coding on the wires? I know a lot of transformers have general color codings, IE red & red/yel. for the HT, green or brown for heaters, green/yel. heater ct, black for mains.
I ran it again today and took some voltage readings. Plate is approx 413v, grid 390v, and I don't remember what bias was but it is cathode bias ( 200 ohms). I would assume into the standard 6600 ohm load listed in the book ( tranny made for schumacher...wonder if its the same one used in deluxe reverbs?)
I have two outputs per OPT: Green, and Yellow. I don't really know the diff between them except for I assume green is 4 ohm and yellow is 8 ohms, but the yellow taps aren't used at all, and the green ones have the NFB on them, AND the woofers the amp drove were each 8 ohm. How much wattage am I looking at here? Seems to be less than 15 watts to me...
I have two outputs per OPT: Green, and Yellow. I don't really know the diff between them except for I assume green is 4 ohm and yellow is 8 ohms, but the yellow taps aren't used at all, and the green ones have the NFB on them, AND the woofers the amp drove were each 8 ohm. How much wattage am I looking at here? Seems to be less than 15 watts to me...
ThSpeakerDude88 said:
Based on the numbers in the GE manual, and your measurements, I would guess about 25W.
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen
I retested the tubes and they read around or right at 97 each ( pretty closley matched quad)
I am still wondering why it does not seem at all like 25 watts. I'm getting clipping at about 7 watts or so (if that).
MY onkyo is rated at 15 wpch RMS @ @ .5% THD. Its got chipamps in it, and judging by the power consumption it probably tops out around 25 watts as well. The conn has nowhere near the power that the onkyo has.
aye whats going on here😕
I am still wondering why it does not seem at all like 25 watts. I'm getting clipping at about 7 watts or so (if that).
MY onkyo is rated at 15 wpch RMS @ @ .5% THD. Its got chipamps in it, and judging by the power consumption it probably tops out around 25 watts as well. The conn has nowhere near the power that the onkyo has.
aye whats going on here😕
ThSpeakerDude88 said:
Load impedance mismatch? What is the impedance of the original speakers and how were they wired? (If impedance is unknown dcr is usually a bit less than the actual speaker impedance.)
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