Prune said:
Actually, it sounds rather sensible and intelligent to me.
“ITER Canada is misleading Canadians because the ITER reactor is only a very expensive experiment that will not produce any electricity, and there is no guarantee that fusion will ever work. Even ITER Canada admits that a workable fusion reactor to generate electricity is at least 35 to 50 years away (if ever!). ITER subsidies will reduce government support for the real sustainable options — renewable energy and efficiency programs. One billion dollars could build 1000 megawatts of clean, safe wind turbines.”
“$1 billion [is] about half of the $2 billion budget slated to meet Canada’s commitment to the Kyoto Protocol by 2010. We have to increase our support for the real green energy options — renewable energy and efficiency technologies. We do not have 50 years and a billion dollars to waste on a high-tech fusion fantasy.”
“ITER will produce 30,000 tonnes of radioactive waste that will be deadly for 100 years [and] release large amounts of radioactive tritium, which causes cancer and birth defects if absorbed into the body. ITER will not produce any energy. Not only that, it will require huge amounts of electricity to operate, peaking at 500 megawatts several times a day (the capacity a Pickering- sized nuclear reactor). This will further stress Ontario’s already strained electrical system.”
The point is that there is no alternative, so fusion must be made to work. No other source of energy will sustain the rising energy needs (most people live in developing and third world countries and their energy use per capita will rise tenfold to reach that of developing nations over a few decades. What are you gonna do, cover the planet in solar cells and windmills to provide enough energy? Even the greens know it's not enough. Their solution is to restrict human progress by making us use LESS energy. That is ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE. Other sources of energy, such as coal, oil, even fission, are insufficient. We only have about 2 million tonnes of uranium in the world that can be mined. Other than fusion, there's no known source of energy that can meet the needs of progress.Charles Hansen said:
Total bull! See above.
You pathetic fool, how unquestionably you take to heart such ridiculous propaganda! Due to the short half life and relatively small amount of radioactive material release, the released pollution is less harmful than that of an equivalent coal burning plant.
Damn you ****ed me off with your nonsense!!! 😡 😡 😡 😡 😡
Boy , now that's a hijacked thread. Wasn't this cicuit board discussion? I think Prune will have to go to Texas.....
Actually, Prune started this thread.
You could have a debate about who hijacked it. In the most direct sense, I was the one who changed the topic. But this was in response to Prune's signature lines. So in another sense, Prune is trying to hijack every thread he posts to.
Normally the signature lines I see fall into one of three categories:
1) A statement relating to the poster's audio experiences.
2) A humorous tag line.
3) A thought-provoking statement, often a quote. This is most often in the area of scientific enquiry.
Prune's signature is closest to #3, but in my opinion crosses a line into an "off-topic area" (politics), and in an insulting way. DIY Audio even has a separate "Off Topic" forum to discuss these types of issues. My request would be for Prune to change his signature line so that his political statements don't spill over into the audio-related forums. Thank you.
You could have a debate about who hijacked it. In the most direct sense, I was the one who changed the topic. But this was in response to Prune's signature lines. So in another sense, Prune is trying to hijack every thread he posts to.
Normally the signature lines I see fall into one of three categories:
1) A statement relating to the poster's audio experiences.
2) A humorous tag line.
3) A thought-provoking statement, often a quote. This is most often in the area of scientific enquiry.
Prune's signature is closest to #3, but in my opinion crosses a line into an "off-topic area" (politics), and in an insulting way. DIY Audio even has a separate "Off Topic" forum to discuss these types of issues. My request would be for Prune to change his signature line so that his political statements don't spill over into the audio-related forums. Thank you.
Charles Hansen said:
is there anything in this work that is guaranteed to work?
if the threshold for scientific endeavours were that our investments are guaranteed to work, we wouldn't have anything we have today.
How can people be so non-sensible?
Government (taxpayer) - funding of fusion research, on a level such as that ($2 Billion) is nuts...
Regarding the energy consumption issue, one should not overlook industry. Industry, in Texas, accounts for over half of our total energy consumption; 75% of that in refining and chemicals alone. Those industries, and others, (with the help of good consultants 😉 ) have made great strides in engineering efficiencies into their processes to save in energy consumption. Our energy needs in Texas are not, by any means, rising...
Landfill gas-to-energy is also starting to catch on. (With the help of good consultants 😉
Solar power can, and is is used quite a bit residentially, here in Texas. Our global horizontal isolation is tremendous, all across the state. On average, covering half your roof with 10% efficient panels will generate enough electricity for a family of 4.
I'm going to give solar a try on my next home. DIY of course...
Regarding the energy consumption issue, one should not overlook industry. Industry, in Texas, accounts for over half of our total energy consumption; 75% of that in refining and chemicals alone. Those industries, and others, (with the help of good consultants 😉 ) have made great strides in engineering efficiencies into their processes to save in energy consumption. Our energy needs in Texas are not, by any means, rising...
Landfill gas-to-energy is also starting to catch on. (With the help of good consultants 😉
Solar power can, and is is used quite a bit residentially, here in Texas. Our global horizontal isolation is tremendous, all across the state. On average, covering half your roof with 10% efficient panels will generate enough electricity for a family of 4.
I'm going to give solar a try on my next home. DIY of course...
well, american industry , especially the process industry has for a long time lived well of low natural gas prices. Recently, prices have been increaseing, as well as for all petroleum products and will probably stay high until we find a replacement in the future
There is no way you get 1000 MW of windpower plants for only 1 billion C$ (for I assume that is what you are thinking in currency)
Please come up with a reference..,.
Actually, you will not even get a no-cleaning -dirtiest-cheapes-coal-fired-boilerplant of 1000 MW for that sum.
Neither is there any guarante that windpower will work. Or other crap biofuels (trust me, I live in sweden, and we have lots of wood fired
hot water and electricity plants, with an efficency of about 90 %!!!)
Sticking to Kyoto is going to cost a lot more than 2 billions... even if your government says so (Sweden and Canada has similar energy production systems, water power and nuclear, as well as similar high energy consumtion industries )
And why is Iter going to be a failure? I think that the most outspoken critics actually dont have the knowledge base to judge the project. It is very expensive, yes, and we should aswell put money in research of other energy sources (you know , all the eggs in one basket...) but if it would work, the out come would indeed be very benficial, compared to other sources. Even from an environmental point of wiew. As well as increasing efficency in the industri, even perhaps prohibit extensive use of air conditioners..
(as an example from our wood fired plants, the ashes is redistributed over the forrests, to put minerals and elements back in circulation. However, it contains so much potassium (of which 7 % is K-40 ) that the personel working with this daily superseeds the legal dose limit in sweden...
There is no way you get 1000 MW of windpower plants for only 1 billion C$ (for I assume that is what you are thinking in currency)
Please come up with a reference..,.
Actually, you will not even get a no-cleaning -dirtiest-cheapes-coal-fired-boilerplant of 1000 MW for that sum.
Neither is there any guarante that windpower will work. Or other crap biofuels (trust me, I live in sweden, and we have lots of wood fired
hot water and electricity plants, with an efficency of about 90 %!!!)
Sticking to Kyoto is going to cost a lot more than 2 billions... even if your government says so (Sweden and Canada has similar energy production systems, water power and nuclear, as well as similar high energy consumtion industries )
And why is Iter going to be a failure? I think that the most outspoken critics actually dont have the knowledge base to judge the project. It is very expensive, yes, and we should aswell put money in research of other energy sources (you know , all the eggs in one basket...) but if it would work, the out come would indeed be very benficial, compared to other sources. Even from an environmental point of wiew. As well as increasing efficency in the industri, even perhaps prohibit extensive use of air conditioners..
(as an example from our wood fired plants, the ashes is redistributed over the forrests, to put minerals and elements back in circulation. However, it contains so much potassium (of which 7 % is K-40 ) that the personel working with this daily superseeds the legal dose limit in sweden...
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